Does your dog or cat have conscious thought?

How about this, between cats and dogs, which are more self aware? I just don't know. I wish there was a way to output a cats brain pattern and input it into a human brain.

The result would probably be a strong urge to move to Canada, buy too many drums, and come up with a logo for yourself.

Bam!

You would probably be sitting around licking yourself.
 
Agreed. Habits are learned. Acting to someone coming home is learned. They do have memory.which they use through the recognition of patterns. But this again is just a reaction.

Is there anything that people do that can't be dismissed as "just a reaction"??


How about this, between cats and dogs, which are more self aware? I just don't know. I wish there was a way to output a cats brain pattern and input it into a human brain.

The result would probably be a strong urge to move to Canada, buy too many drums, and come up with a logo for yourself.

Dogs are smarter than cats, no doubt. People are sometimes fooled by the arrogant mask cats wear to mask their ignorance. Having said that, when they're in the mood cats are champion cuddlers ...
 
I believe they do. Companion animals can even often understand our thought processes, be it by interpreting body language, taught cues, or what have you, many animals will help others in need, offer quiet comfort when we're upset...

I'm a "cat guy" I love them and have always had at least one as a companion. I've watched cats work out their path in their head before taking some insane climbing route to the top of a house. I've watched cats have spats between one another, and form lasting bonds with their playmates, and even humans. I've known cats who got depressed when their friend passed away, much the same way my grandmother was never the same after grandpa's passing. They have their own agendas, and independent thought is a given in my mind. This simply can't all be instinct, because each one has it's own personality. You can tell where instinct comes in.

Overall I think "animals" have a lot more going on upstairs than we give them credit for sometimes. Often the complexity of their thought process is limited, and just as in humans, some of them (and us) are incredibly stupid.
 
Dogs are smarter than cats, no doubt.

I've always made a distinction between "intelligence" and capacity for learning specific things a specific way. I've noticed that dogs seem to have more aptness to learn behaviors at our beck, while cats seem to have a bit more capacity to learn on their own, but can't be bothered to learn "tricks" beyond a few steps. Like me, it seems to be an attention span issue.
 
We have a neighborhood cat around here. When I say hi to her, she always answers back with a meow just like a neighbor would say hi. She doesn't want to be petted. I just see her passing by now and then going from here to there.
 
We have a neighborhood cat around here. When I say hi to her, she always answers back with a meow just like a neighbor would say hi. She doesn't want to be petted. I just see her passing by now and then going from here to there.

I can't think how this is an instinct. Responding to verbal cues from another species when you have no intent to cultivate any line of self-serving. Sounds like a friendly disposition. That's not fear keeping her from coming over for some cuddling. Fear would dictate that she stay quiet and out of sight. She just isn't personally interested in much more than a quick "hi", or has bigger fish to fry.
 
I tell my cats to stay, and they stay! See!

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Animals are not self-aware. They don't understand the concept of a self, or even know what a concept is. Animals do not reason; they are like computers. They take in data and follow a set of instructions (instincts). They react to something based on whether it gives them pleasure or pain.

There are no levels of self-awareness: either you are, or you aren't.

The reason we can relate to other humans is because we have language.

How can you say that animals are not self-aware if you can have no way of relating to their mind?

I've had dogs that seem to make decisions, or at least they try to exercise their will until I make enough demands. So I say dogs can reason, though they're not always reasonable.

Bermuda

Humans can reason but they are not always reasonable.

Humans are not the ultra-reasonable creatures that some people might have you believe. History has shown that humans are very much more motivated by instinct and emotion - rather than reason.
 
I can't think how this is an instinct. Responding to verbal cues from another species when you have no intent to cultivate any line of self-serving. Sounds like a friendly disposition. That's not fear keeping her from coming over for some cuddling. Fear would dictate that she stay quiet and out of sight. She just isn't personally interested in much more than a quick "hi", or has bigger fish to fry.

That's what I figure. She stays between several different houses.
 
The reason we can relate to other humans is because we have language.

How can you say that animals are not self-aware if you can have no way of relating to their mind?

Humans are self-aware. I think you can agree with that? Look at what humans have accomplished: civilization, technology, medicine, entertainment... Then look at what animals have accomplished. At most, they've, what, survived and adapted in limited and primitive ways? If animals were self-aware, they'd have something to show for it, and the world would be a whole lot different.
 
Going all tree-hugger on me, I see... an amusing twist of my words, but clearly not what I meant.

Think about it. If animals were self-aware, they would NOT be satisfied living the simple lives they live. They would do what humans did: adapt, evolve, and conquer! Create things! Build things! Dogs wouldn't be sleeping all day, or playing with chew toys, or licking themselves. Who can say what they would be doing? Perhaps things similar to what humans do, or maybe not. But they aren't doing anything that proves they are self-aware.

If you were a self-aware dog, suddenly thrust into this hierarchy of being, wouldn't you question it? And then, maybe even rebel against it?

Humans have dogs as pets, not the other way around. It is that way for a reason. Humans are self-aware, and dogs are not.
 
Humans have dogs as pets, not the other way around..

I've been with dogs for....oh, about 20 years and it is the other way around actually.

PS- You speak of conscious thought purely as a brain or an intelligence function. That would imply that Mike Tyson is less of a human than Albert Einstien was.

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"Is there anything that people do that can't be dismissed as "just a reaction"??"

Sure . they design things, they invent things.
 
I've been with dogs for , oh about 20 years and It is the other way around actually.

PS- You speak of conscious thought as a brain on an intelligence function. That would imply that Mike Tyson is less of a human than Albert Einstien was.

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I'm not sure what you mean, but you reminded me of something else I was thinking about.

Animals don't quite think; they process. What I mean by this is that they don't think about whether they want to eat or sleep. They process the information at hand, for example, how hungry they are or how sleepy they are, and react based on that information. They don't think about hunger or tiredness like we do ("I'm hungry, I'll eat in a few minutes" or "I'm so tired, I just want to sleep"). What I'm getting at is that animals process data in a more simplified and involuntary way. If a light goes on a dog's brain telling it it's hungry, it will eat. Humans, on the other hand, think about the decision to eat based on a variety of things, and can even deny the satiation of hunger. Dogs don't do that.

By the way, I'm not stating this as fact. Sorry if it seems like I am saying all this stuff with certainty, or with any evidence. It's just what I think. This is philosophy, after all.
 
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Amazing what a pre-frontal cortex and opposable thumbs can do ...

Polio vaccine, X-rays, cancer research, penicillin, computers(to include the one you are typing on), heart surgery, heart, lung, liver transplants, airplanes, jets, cars, trains.. All made by animals with a pre-frontal cortex and opposable thumbs.
 
Hey Typo

Tree hugger, eh? Are you going all Tea Party on me? :p

Fact: animals lead intense emotional lives. They strategise. They learn. The smarter ones use tools. They have a sense of humour. They develop different ways of doing things (ever seen cats and dogs spontaneously use their paws like hands?).

Yet you have misunderstood. I love animals for the usual reasons - innocence, cuteness, special skills, interestingness etc, but the animalistic side of humans is our worst side. I would never say we should be more like animals - IMO we're waaay too much like them.

I think the best uniquely human things we've developed are the arts, philosophy and ethics.
 
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