The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Man he and the whole band were smokin'. To think how many people are so impressed with present day metal-blast beat speed drumming. This is speed with finese and layers of rhythms with each hand-amazing. This is what inspired me to start playing the drums back in the 60s when I was just a tot! Rock roll was rolling in and gaining the most attention, but then Buddy would come on Johnny Carson or some other venue and my jaw would drop. Dynamic playing.
 
Awesome - imagine if he had all the high quality gear (pedals etc) that we have nowadays - I often wonder what he would have sounded like as one of our contemporaries rather than as a pioneer.....
 
Awesome - imagine if he had all the high quality gear (pedals etc) that we have nowadays - I often wonder what he would have sounded like as one of our contemporaries rather than as a pioneer.....

Well Herc...he'd be blowin' us away even more than he did back then.

Oh wait...uhh...is that EVEN possible?
 
Well... Im at work ( a Music Shop) ...I just read this entire thread and have to say this... if you spent as much time thinking/talking about Buddy as you do... practising to be the best YOU can be... Buddy may have the same opinions of you. Good and Bad...in the end its an external opinion of what the man did/and was truly capable of... I just don't see anyone as "the best" in comparison to others... only the BEST they can be with themselves. This for me is the reality of being a WFD Champion... I'm not "the best" in comparison to you or whomever... only the best I can be!!!

I love buddy's style/approach to the kit... but he's night/day to me... so I have to respect where he went/took the drum kit.

Mike
 
is this true?

from wikipedia "He received no formal drum instruction, and went so far as to claim that instruction would only degrade his musical talent. He also never admitted to practicing, claiming to play the drums only during performances."

if i only played live, i would suck so hard.... i work hard at home and only make progress because of it.

Buddy Rich was an egomaniac, a poor human being, and personally, his drumming is ancient history to me. Sure, he can't had played when we wasn't doing shows; he hated drumming, why would he do it in his spare time? Come on...


Fox.
 
Buddy Rich was an egomaniac, a poor human being, and personally, his drumming is ancient history to me. Sure, he can't had played when we wasn't doing shows; he hated drumming, why would he do it in his spare time? Come on...


Fox.

You've insulted EVERY drummer that has come since him because EVERY drummer has been directly influenced by Buddy Rich whether they realize it or not.

What some perceive as 'ego' was supreme confidence in himself as reflected in his superhuman drive to perform at a level nobody else could. He demanded competency from the musicians he hired the same way any business owner would demand the best from their employees. You called him a 'poor human being', but a 'poor human being' wouldn't create a tremendous adoration and excitement for music like Buddy and his sidemen created.

A 'poor human being' would detract from, or deride those who aimed to enlighten others to the joys of music, which is exactly what you are doing Fox. As far as 'his drumming is ancient history to me.' goes, I suggest you put up or shut up. If you are as hawt sheet as you think you are, this should be easy to prove how much better you are at drums than Buddy was. I don't expect you will be able to do that.
 
Buddy Rich was an egomaniac, a poor human being, and personally, his drumming is ancient history to me. Sure, he can't had played when we wasn't doing shows; he hated drumming, why would he do it in his spare time? Come on...


Fox.

Hands down this gets my vote for the stupidest post of the year, and we've still got four months to go.
 
Hands down this gets my vote for the stupidest post of the year, and we've still got four months to go.

Yes indeed Jay...and the outrageous comment that Buddy hated the drums and drumming. What? Hello?

Buddy LOVED the drums and you can HEAR IT in every note he played on the instrument by himself or with the band...love or leave it but cut the crap comments please and forget the person and FOCUS on the player.

Anyone who thinks he brought nothing to the table and is not worth a can of beans can imagine themselves sitting on his throne setting up and playing all the figures and tempo changes etc...etc... with the band on this very high level of musical performance on this concert live recording. By the way this IS the film footage from Ronnie Scott's of "Time Being" from the "Rich in London" album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-m8S-ldOM&playnext=1&videos=4n7Lbkk5lEc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-m8S-ldOM&playnext=1&videos=4n7Lbkk5lEc

Any takers? Fox perhaps?

Later........
 
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Ya, I never got this 'judging Buddy as a human being' thing that one sees a lot of on forums.
Assuming he was a rotten to core human being, would his contribution to drumming history or indeed the evolution of drum playing be any less?

Does the fact that Einstein was a lousy dad who had his son institutionalized and never visited him ever again, make him less of a genius?

We can only judge him as a drummer, because thats what he had to say to the world.
As for his rants and the 'bus rides from hell' recordings, all I hear is a man who has set the bar very high for himself, and doing everything in his power to reach a higher plateau of perfection.

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Honeslty, Buddy Rich just doesn't do it for me. I don't get the adoration he gets from the entire drumming community. I've seen him play on videos, and what I see is very good drumming indeed. But nothing from his playing that actually stands out to me. Note, I'm not bashing Buddy like Fox does. I understand he was a very good drummer. I just don't seem to get what actually makes him stand out from pretty much every other drummer out there, ever. Maybe the fact that he is self-thought?
 
Fox622003, when Jay Norem/ con struct/ and I agree on something then hell has truly frozen over. Your post just revolutionized Biblical climate change. Congratulations.

Bottom line-Buddy Rich suffers from an army of crazed hero worshippers who do little to forward his legacy and only worsen this uneducated historical revision of who he actually was. I truly believe that is why you see some of this ignorant backlash and that's unfortunate.

But you guys who pretend to know him then try to pick apart his playing are living in a dream world.

When I read someone slam his playing or make some tragically hip crack about how they thought he was the greatest than outgrew all that, all that makes me think is how much you still have to learn, alongside silence is golden. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say the same to any pro drummer here who spouts that nonsense too, and will accuse you of bandwagon jumping, because it's a silly discussion and you know it.

I also totally agree with Aydee and this ego as indictment stuff. The only people who judge artistic ego this harshly are people who don't play very much and have no business talking about it in these terms, plain and simple. Fact is Rich would only be one in a line 1000 miles longer than the nice guy line where you find Louie Bellson and a couple of others.

Besides not a one of you knew him to make these comments anyway, and only do so to impress on a drum forum. Great artists are complex people and Rich was one of the most complex of all. When my dad was young Rich once got mad and fired him over nothing then turned around and paid his university tuition for a semester.

I think that when engaging in these kinds of discussions it's best to stay out of deep water when you don't know how to swim. Fox, as I have told you before your own playing has a long way to go before making these kinds of comments.

Ancient history? Well if I were you I would become an archeologist and find Rich's left hand as soon as possible because it would do your playing wonders.

There's an expression in the US about being able to play as cute as you talk. Words to live by man. Yeah anyone can have opinions///playing aside. But there's also a big talk line, and you just crossed it.
 
...We can only judge him as a drummer, because thats what he had to say to the world.

Let me get this straight; if someone is good at something, we can't make moral judgments about their behaviour outside of the thing they do well? I mean, their acts take place "in the world" as much as whatever it is they're good at.

Not sure I can buy that.

BTW, I think Buddy was the bee's knees, in spite of never having a thing for him like some other guys I came up with. And I can't speak to his personality outside of the usual outsider's perspective. I'm just asking a general question here.

I remember Buddy had me at about 5:33 of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eIRjtks0y0&feature=related

I still can't play those shuffled flams quite like that. Bugger.
 
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Let me get this straight; if someone is good at something, we can't make moral judgments about their behaviour outside of the thing they do well? I mean, their acts take place "in the world" as much as whatever it is they're good at. Not sure I can buy that.

You could, but that would be out of context and judgmental IMO.. ; )
Its the fallibility of the human condition that makes us want to believe that anyone who has done anything great in this world would/should automatically be a great guy.
And if in our opinion he didn't quite measure up to our moral benchmark, well, then his life work couldn't be all THAT great.

Secondly, I'm inclined to take less than half of what the media makes of anybody as gospel. I happen to be close to the Jaco Pastorius' family, and I do know that Jaco was another victim of one-sided stories that became mythic and dont reveal the real person in the least.

Third, I generalize but I do believe that all so called geniuses are essentially flawed and somewhat unbalanced people. To constantly ask so much of themselves usually means somethings got to give somewhere.

History is littered with examples.

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Could Buddy read? I can never wrap my head around how he hits all the band hits, the stabs, everything. I've never seen him reading from a chart in any of the videos I've seen. Does anybody know for sure if he just internalized all those big band charts or did he read them early on and memorize them? He's amazing. He had the most even sounding hand technique I ever heard. He gives us all a mark to strive for.
 
Secondly, I'm inclined to take less than half of what the media makes of anybody as gospel. I happen to be close to the Jaco Pastorius' family, and I do known that Jaco was another victim of one-sided stories that became mythic and don't reveal the real person in the least.


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I hear ya Abe. I could imagine that even in an internet forum folks would quabble about what has actually been said. :p

If anybody has ever been quoted in a newspaper, you will come to ask, "did I say that?" Folks are going to use the fodder for their own reward. And once you're talking about mass culture and a time line like Buddy or Jaco, legend and mythology rules. By the way, you know, Michael Jackson slept with snakes.

I think that you are even clearer when stating that you cannot base an understanding of ones artistic or intellectual capacity on some other flaw or character trait that one may or may not like.
 
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I hear ya Abe. I could imagine that even in an internet forum folks would quabble about what has actually been said. :p

If anybody has ever been quoted in a newspaper, you will come to ask, "did I say that?" Folks are going to use the fodder for their own reward. And once you're talking about mass culture and a time line like Buddy or Jaco, mythology rules. You know, Michael Jackson slept with snakes. by the way.

I think that you are even clearer when stating that you cannot base an understanding of ones artistic or intellectual capacity on some other flaw or character trait that one may or may not like.
A few years ago Art Verdi gave me a home made DVD that had 10 years of Buddy Rich appearences on that old Johnny Carson Show. At first glance you could watch one of those shows and think Geez he's kind of a jerk. But then I watched another, then another, then another and you know what? 90% of that stuff was a routine that had been worked out between Rich and Carson to where both guys knew their role in the gimmick and responded accordingly. It was vaudeville and that's where Rich came from. And Rich's vaudeville gimmick was being a wise guy. Now does that mean it was entirely an act? No. But I just think that sometimes people talk very matter of factly about things they have no business discussing because they really don't get it.

As for the bus tapes, I've never talked to a pro musician who had the inside track about that who didn't think the guys in that particular Rich band were far worse jerks than Rich ever was. In fact people still talk about that trombone player who started it all, and he's also a known jerk in Australia now.

Story was he egged Rich on for both those sets while the band was playing and disrupted the performance onstage. Then others in the band started laughing and playing along too. The trombone player was mostly mad that Rich wasn't going to record his arrangement of a tune called Manhattan, although Rich still played it almost every night on gigs. Now if anyone would like to google that chart, you can hear the downloads for yourself. It just wasn't up to recording standards and Rich was right to refuse it. Let's also remember this was the same guy who recorded the bus rant. So in other words, an overrated jerk poked sticks into the cage of a volatile personality for 2 straight sets then recorded it for posterity because he didn't get his tune recorded. The whole thing was a setup from the get go.

Want to judge?

What would have been Tony Williams' reaction to that setup?

Elvin?

Copeland?

Weckl?

And for those who want to pretend they're psychologists and blabber on about how no one deserves etc, etc, I only ask why anyone stayed on that bus if they weren't part of some scheme? Why didn't the aggrieved parties just quit? After all everyone knows those big bands didn't pay all that much. Besides you're supposed to be pros. Goofing up gigs on purpose is the worst thing a pro can do and is deserving of the most extreme consequences.
 
Buddy LOVED the drums and you can HEAR IT in every note he played on the instrument by himself or with the band...love or leave it but cut the crap comments please and forget the person and FOCUS on the player.

That's exactly what I said, perhaps you didn't get the sarcasm.
Someone quated Buddy as saying something like he never played outside of the performances, and never practised. As someone who loves the instrument, how could he not play outside performances? So, he just watched TV and picked up girls? Only developed techniques live? Come on...
As someone else said, Buddy was a nice drummer, that played nicely, but he's constantly mentioned as the best by too many people. It's similar to how I feel about Ian Paice, who at least doesn't go around constantly saying to everyone how good he is.


Fox.
 
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