cheap cymbals - wasting time, wasting money?

I think budget cymbals have their place, and with a little bit of figuring out what kind of sound you're wanting it's getting easier to put together a good sounding set of cymbals with just a little effort and a whole lot less money.

I also think that overall the level of useful noise coming out of many big companies has improved quite a bit in recent years, and the number of options from lower cost brands like Stagg, Dream, and Wuhan have opened up the sound palette beyond the typical B8 sheet bronze that was so common even 10 years ago.

But I do honestly believe even some of those low end lines like Sabian's B8Pro and Paiste's PST5 are perfectly usable and pretty decent for the price. I've owned several cymbals from both of those lines and when I wanted something bright and transparent they were perfect.

I know the "buy used pro cymbals" mantra is popular around here, but a beginner is just as likely, if not even more so, to buy a cymbal they won't like or doesn't suit their sound doing that as they are buying a beginner-level cymbal. And if they buy used they lose the option of returning it if it isn't what they want, unlike when buying a new cymbal from a dealer.
 
It's the same with drums, everyone should start on a crappy precussion pro kit or something, so that their equipment suits their level, and as they become better and buy better gear, they keep learning and get a real sense of appreciation for what they have. Don't forget there is alot of knowledge and experience that can come from owning cheap equipment and then upgrading, going from low-end, to mid, to high-end. THAT (imo) is how you become a truely experienced drummer :)

I don't dispute your points by any measure, but on the flip side: I don't need to have driven a 1983 Toyota Corolla for 10 years in order to be able to appreciate a Ferarri.



I know the "buy used pro cymbals" mantra is popular around here, but a beginner is just as likely, if not even more so, to buy a cymbal they won't like or doesn't suit their sound doing that as they are buying a beginner-level cymbal. And if they buy used they lose the option of returning it if it isn't what they want, unlike when buying a new cymbal from a dealer.

Good points......which leads me to question, if you are gonna spunk your hard earned on entry level...why not save a packet and buy them used as well?

With the abundance of the things on ebay, I'm thinking a beginner could kit out his whole rig for a few bucks....beats paying $300 for a pack of junk that will inevitably end up right back on ebay at a tenth of the cost anyway.

I wonder if I should start recommending buying 'used' entry level cymbals as well.

Sorry guys....not adding much, but the Wolf has raised a couple of good points that caused me to think out loud.
 
I don't dispute your points by any measure, but on the flip side: I don't need to have driven a 1983 Toyota Corolla for 10 years in order to be able to appreciate a Ferarri.

No, but at least you didn't spend $150,000 just to find out you're not that good of a driver...

Good points......which leads me to question, if you are gonna spunk your hard earned on entry level...why not save a packet and buy them used as well?

Biggest reason I've got is if you buy that beginner cymbal from Musician's Friend and you don't like it you can send it back and get a refund or credit towards something else. If you buy it used your only option is resell it on eBay yourself.

Granted, the only time I've returned a cymbal it was pro-level, but like I said before if it isn't the sound you wanted or expected, it doesn't matter what series it's from.

Also, I've found the life expectancy of some sheet bronze cymbals to be a little shorter, so buying used can be a little more of a gamble.

With the abundance of the things on ebay, I'm thinking a beginner could kit out his whole rig for a few bucks....beats paying $300 for a pack of junk that will inevitably end up right back on ebay at a tenth of the cost anyway. I wonder if I should start recommending buying 'used' entry level cymbals as well.

It isn't advice I'd normally give, but if you like to gamble you could end up with some decent gear for really small money.

The only real drawback I usually see when shopping for used gear in the beginner category (drums and cymbals) is it is often mistreated due to poor technique or general neglect, and/or priced ridiculously high because the seller is expecting to finance the purchase of that awesome mid level kit they want by selling their beat-to-hell beginner gear for the price of the new set.
 
I do think the Sabian B8s are good budget cymbals, however. I just started using a bottom 14 hihat for a mini-ride and it sounds very good.

I rather like the sound of some B8 stamped hats.. B8 Sabians and ZBTs-yep!
 
I think beginners have to ease into it. I started with B8 hats and a crash, and a zbt crash/ride, and lots of drummers i know in school had something similar to that. I think my first real nice cymbal was a z custom ride which i still use and love that i got before they were discontinued. Honestly, i fell super lucky that my parents support my musical endeavors, cuz we go cymbal shopping for the holidays, and nw i've got an a custom, z custom, k custom hyrbid hats, a 2002 crash and a cheap wuhan china and splash, and i'm getting a pork pie lil squealer for chistmas. It's nice, i picked it out, used for 125 its a steal and sounds superb. I know i sound a little spoiled haha but i don't have the newest iphone on the most expensive plan like everyone else at school, but i don't complain, cuz i like my cheap t-mobile prepaid phone. And i don't complain, because i know i have better cymbals than them. I even played a battle of the bands at a school sponsored event a year back, and used by cymbals, because i refuse to play the zht's they had there. Most of the drummers were horrendous, but my cymbals stole the show. I was proud that night.

My point is: ya gotta start somewhere, and a few cheap cymbals isn't the worst idea. I do agree with the used semi/pro level cymbals tho, but how can you know how bad the cheap cymbals are w/out playing them first.

Yeah, now on second thought, i shoulda started out with used alpha's or x20's.
 
Excellent post. Especially since I myself have gone through the start up (re-start in my case) phase.

IMO, it seems to be related to: 1) Budget 2) Motivation level
Sometimes these 2 take a while to develop.

Well...if I had someone else buying my gear (at the beginning stage), I would research and try to get the "Best gear" my nice parents would buy. Now that could be expensive. I'm sure they would give me a counter offer which would determine "Good used" or "so-so brand new" equipment. You need Knowledge and patience for "Good used" equipment.

As a returning newbie, I lacked the knowledge AND patience. But I felt (not certain) that it would be interesting to return after 25 years. I went with a suggested PDP FS Birch (GC guy enthusiastically says: "It's made by DW dude!"). Came with a ZBT set. I was pretty motivated, but not quite yet sure.

A year later I picked up a 6 piece DW Collectors set and A Customs, A series, Mastersounds, New Beats. I got everything at about 40% off. But that took knowledge, patience and motivation. I sold all the ZBT’s to help pay for the A Customs. That was my only regret because earlier this year I cracked a 20” A Custom crash during practice.

Lesson here: Keep the ugly pies for practice. They serve well later. I ended up getting some used B8’s, older Zildjian crashes and some Staggs (which were dark, but nice BTW).

As said in an earlier post, beginners should ease into it, until they’re ready to commit. Great deals on Craigslist for used drum equipment parents are selling that their kids no longer use.
 
QUESTION: Being an Aussie, where being raped senselss for anything drum related is 'par for the course', I have very little idea.......what would US$300 worth of used cymbals buy you on ebay, providing you were shrewd enough?

I think I could do pretty well on ebay,classified or craigslist for 300 US.A few years ago I passed by a yard sale and noticed a set of drums.in a very large cardboard box.Sound Percussion,made in China firewood.but at the bottom of the box,under a couple of Zildjian Amir's was some A Zildjian 14" newbeat hats,16,18 thin crashs,and a 20" ride...new,still in the plastic.Not a stick mark.Some vintage Ludwig 1400 seies stands and a buck rogers snare stand for 50 US.Oh yeah the drums 5 piece.

Right now on Ebay if you're savy,you can probably pick up a 20" ride 1 or 2 chashes,and 13 or 14" hats for about that 300 price point.20" A Zils,or AA Sabian rides go for under 100 everyday,as well as hats for under 100,and crashes in the 15 to 18" range going for sometimes 50,especially now.People need money for the holidays.

So yard sales probably give you most bang for the buck,and craigslist;the most entertainment,because there are way too many nut jobs out there.

Steve B
 
The view that beginners somehow need to "graduate" to better sounding or pro cymbals/equipment has always intruiged me. Surley a musician at any level is entitled to best equipment they can get? To me it's almost like saying to someone "until you can cook on a log fire you can't use a gas hob".

Hope you're well,

Kev
Maybe, but how many high school kids do you see playing 5000.00 saxophones or even 2000.00 saxophones. Kids can't afford them and neither can the parents.
 
Maybe, but how many high school kids do you see playing 5000.00 saxophones or even 2000.00 saxophones. Kids can't afford them and neither can the parents.

I agree with you on this point, most certainly.

On the other hand, drums aren't single instruments like Saxophones or French Horns. They are much more adaptable and you can afford to compromise in some areas whilst prioritising others. I don't believe that you should compromise on cymbals and the prices of second-hand 'professional' models are similar to the prices of new 'beginner' ranges so the price difference isn't as vast as that between a Selmer Mark VI and a low-end Jupiter - in keeping with the Saxophone analogy.

Cheaper drums can be great. Second-hand drums aren't much more expensive. In my view, if there is only a minor price difference between a good mid-level set second hand and a low-end set new then you should get the better quality item. If the price difference is more significant to you (as a percentage of income or circumstance) then compromise on the drums and get better cymbals.
 
You don't always have to buy new. You just have to buy smart. Learn what to look for and you can easily find decent cymbals. K and A Zildjian, or even AAX and HH Sabian for a decent price on ebay and craigslist. It's worth the look. I own a nice set of A's and K's just by bidding on online auction sites like ebay. and each set only set me back around $300-$350 each.
 
I learned this lesson the hard way. My first cymbals were the zildjian ZBT rock pack, which i got because they were a cheap. sounded horrible & didn't appeal to me. I then upgrade to Sabian XS20, which i did because they improved the sound & were also cheap. Great! but they didn't sound like pro cymbals or had the thing i was looking for in a hi hat, crashes, and ride.

Finally, i decided to start over & pick cymbals based on sound and not price. I upgrade everything from hi hats down to my ride cymbal. I just love the sound i have now. Looking to the past, i wasted close to a thousand on thing that really didn't appeal to me. Did i mention I'm not rich...
 
i learned this the hard way but not as hard as some of you. i know i'll catch hell for this but here goes...

i bought the entire set of zildjian pitch blacks, big mistake there. on the good side i only payed $250 for 7 cymbals and the hats, i ended up selling them to some kid who "just had to have them, their exactly what he's been looking for" for $700 which completely funded my hhx raw bell dry ride and hhx groove hats and 18" hhx ozone crash brand new.

i guess my lesson from this was no matter how dumb i was somebody will come along that is just as dumb and completely unwilling to listen and give me my money back plus some.....
 
There are good sounding cheap cymbals out there. The XS20's...some of them sound pro to me. Heard one yesterday at Best Buy, and it sounded like an A custom to me. I never heard a Sabian B8 that I liked though. I use an XS20 as my bottom hat on my gig kit.

I always tell people, not beginners, to buy new and utilize the exchange policy until they find exactly the right hi hat, ride, and crash. Buying used cymbals is a gamble. You have no clue as to how the thing was cared for and played. Watching those ultra slo mo vids of cymbals being struck and resembling an ocean wave...If I'm going to part with cash, I don't want to wonder about it's past. Drums are a different story.

That said, at this exact moment I am waiting for the Fed Ex guy to deliver me my first set of used bronze lol. These will be my first set of used cymbals, as I just got my first set of used drums. (from the same guy) I am buying them on faith, the guy who sold me the drums, who is a more than a legitimate person, (cool thread about this coming in 2012) who is leaving drumming and giving great deals on his own personal gear, sold me his prized set of Masterworks hand hammered Turkish cymbals..(anybody heard of these?) He was gushing over these, using words like, jaw dropping... He said they sound just like the prized old K's. Got 2 hats, a crash and a ride for 600.00. Judging from the drums I already received,, (cherry vintage 1966 Luds) I felt that this gamble will pay off bigtime. I will keep you guys posted.

As an aside, I asked the guy to play the cymbals over the phone for me before buying. Yea, that doesn't work. The frequencies that cymbals make...I guess the FO network can't replicate frequencies in that range. No matter where he held the phone, close, far, it sounded like aliens lol.
 
For me i really can't afford to buy the top end cymbals and i do not use e-bay so i resort to buying the cymbals that are around the £100 mark. i would say they are not the best sounding and having a mis-match is not that desirable but
actually going in to a music shop and hitting a few is the best way on finding a good cheap cymbal. i have bought off the internet and used reviews to guess what sound the cymbal has and it never sounds how you want.
 
You should always start out with entry level gear when it comes to something as advanced as learning an instrument.I dont buy that a beginner will be discouraged and quit because of an entry level instrument.These are different times.If anyone has gone out and picked up a 300 dollar guitar lately,it has all the quality of the mid range guitars your dad had available.Also,for tiny bit more you get into quality unmatched ever for the price.For 300 bucks you can get a classic vibe tele or strat,brand new.For 330 right now you can get an Epiphone les paul standard.These are two examples of how amazing quality has become on entry level gear.They are no longer disposable.Seasoned pros are buying them simply because they can no longer deny the value.
If a child walks away from an instrument,it is because thats what kids do.They see someone who is good at something and want to do it too,even if it doesnt really suit them at all.Great part about it is,now mom or dad gets to keep his classic vibe for themselves.We cant deny our kids the opportunity to expand themselves,but you cant order a new DW kit and surround it with top of the line Sabians and cross your fingers either.By the time they realize they dont really like drums,they have cracked four cymbals and scratched every shell to the point of no return.To me that is a much larger waste of money.
Bottom line is,you wouldnt buy a race car the day you sign up for driving lessons,and if someone gives you a race car the day you sign up for lessons,they should have their head examined.
 
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