cheap cymbals - wasting time, wasting money?

Ainulindale

Gold Member
i made the mistake of buying a Sabian B8 cymbal pack, almost 300$ canadian, in the end it was (imho) a complete waste of money - they were cheap cymbals that sounded cheap, i could not replace them fast enough, it took 2 months of scrimping, but i got myself some quality hand hammered b20 pies, bought several others later, yes they were expensive - what an incredible sound though!

there are many posts about cymbal packs, cheaper lines, enrty level pies, etc... i just get frustrated, because its hard to convince people to stop, save up and buy some quality cymbals - does anybody else agree? or learned the lesson the hard way, like i did, wasting hundreds of dollars? just wondering...
 
I wholeheartedly agree.

I was lucky enough not to have to learn the hard way though. I have a father who is also a drummer. He identified the entry lines as the junk that they are and I was encouraged to always buy quality cymbals.

As for convincing someone to stave off the desire to flush their money down the drain? All you can do is tell 'em mate......whether they listen or not, is not your cross to carry.
As my dad used to say to me whenever he was trying to make a point that I was too young, foolish and know-it-all to heed....." I can take you sailing, but I can't make the wind blow."
 
I think I was lucky. I came up in the era where cheap cymbals existed, but you knew what they were and you avoided them! You only had two choices when I was growing up: Zildjian A's or Paiste (the 2002 line was the one they always pushed). And you didn't have alot of people chatting about gear on the internet saying everything's good. I actually had teachers and other players tell me to avoid crap. Which, I think in this politically correct world, no one really says anymore. It's a shame, really.
 
Ya know, as much as I hate to say it, I wouldn't tell a very young, beginning drummer to go all the way to pro pies necessarily. Those B8 sheet cymbals have a purpose - and that is to make passable sound in a beginner environment for a certain amount of time until the student becomes proficient. Then he or she can graduate to a professional grade instrument, just as he or she will with the drums and hardware. Same thing happens with guitars, computers, cars, houses, and most of our other major purchases - first we get what works and what we can afford, and later (if we stick with it) we go professional grade.

I do agree that there's no point jumping from beginner cymbal to beginner cymbal, just as there's no point going from Stagestars to Stage Customs. But we all have to start somewhere.
 
Ya know, as much as I hate to say it, I wouldn't tell a very young, beginning drummer to go all the way to pro pies necessarily. Those B8 sheet cymbals have a purpose - and that is to make passable sound in a beginner environment for a certain amount of time until the student becomes proficient. Then he or she can graduate to a professional grade instrument, just as he or she will with the drums and hardware. Same thing happens with guitars, computers, cars, houses, and most of our other major purchases - first we get what works and what we can afford, and later (if we stick with it) we go professional grade.

I do agree that there's no point jumping from beginner cymbal to beginner cymbal, just as there's no point going from Stagestars to Stage Customs. But we all have to start somewhere.

I don't know....the whole reason you want your own drums and cymbals is so you can at least make a pass at sounding like what attracted you there in the first place.

Drums, as we all know, can be made to sound good. Cymbals, cannot be made to sound good. But when you play drums, at least 65% of your playing will involve your hi-hats and your ride (at least). I'd say skimp on the drums as a beginner, but literally, students might just give up playing altogether if they had to deal everyday with crappy cymbal sounds.

I saw a parent buy an extremely cheap guitar one day about two months ago - his kid no longer plays. The instrument itself has to inspire the kid to play, and if you give him a crappy sounding guitar that won't stay in tune or strings so high off the fretboard that he's in pain, well, I'd give it up too. And that's a bad first impression for any kid to have. I see band kids go through this every year - the parent buys them a cheap horn, but ends up renting a nice Yamaha or something so the kid is not suffering (especially if he's into it).

It is a tough balance, as a parent, you want your kid to play, but you can't really afford it, but if you get him playing on bad instruments, that may just kill any chance of his continuing on with it. If you get him too good an instrument, then you risk having wasted money if he discovers baseball anyway. I just urge parents to get the best they can afford so the kid doesn't dread having to play it. You want him to have fun, right? I say good quality cymbals are a big part of that fun.
 
Yeah i agree with you too. You cab make entry level drums sound good, but not cymbals.

Entry level cymbals are good for practice kits. Theyre also good if youre noy 100% sure youre going to stick with drums. You dont want to spend 1000 on cymbals, just to find out that drums werent what you thought they would be.

But unless theyre for one of those 2 purposes, i think its better to save up and get some better quality pies.

The thing i dont like is how the companies advertise the entry level cymbals.

"Pro level sound at an entry level price!"
"Cymbals for drummers who want a pro sound, at a good price"
"Great for beginners or pros!"

Obvioulsy, B8's (and all the other entry lines) are not going to sound like pro cymbals. They're entry level cymbals, and the companies shouldn't try to make it look like theyre pro sounding. I think its ridiculous.
 
I agree that cheap cymbals have their purpose. A parent shelling out $250 for a cheap starter set isn't going to shell out $800 for a good cymbal pack. They are just like a cheap drum. They are there to give you a starting point. A cheap starter pack at least gives someone something to hit.

THAT BEING SAID...as a person progresses they should not reinvest in cheap cymbals. As it has been said many times before you can make cheap drums sound better but you can't make a cheap cymbal sound better.
 
QUESTION: Being an Aussie, where being raped senselss for anything drum related is 'par for the course', I have very little idea.......what would US$300 worth of used cymbals buy you on ebay, providing you were shrewd enough?
 
I started out on a Sabian B8 pack: 14" hats, 16" crash, 20" ride. I played them for a few years, and didn't know any better. When I went cymbal shopping the first time, I didn't know WHAT I was doing--I was overwhelmed and under-prepared. Of course "buy the best you can" is the goal, but if you don't have a background in music or are 12 years old, perhaps B8 cymbals aren't such a bad thing

......wait, what am I saying?!?!?!? They're horrible. Big waste of time and money (not to mention copper, tin, and sound vibrations)
 
Im not sure if someone has already said this, because I was too lazy to read all the posts, but from what i've read I think you're all forgetting something. Everyone should learn from personal experience, not just from what they are told by someone else, you've got to buy crappy cheap cymbals to experience what level of quality entry-level is, so that when you play high-end cymbals, you really know what you've got. It's the only real fair option to give someone because without that personal experience, how will they become as experienced as you are?

It's the same with drums, everyone should start on a crappy precussion pro kit or something, so that their equipment suits their level, and as they become better and buy better gear, they keep learning and get a real sense of appreciation for what they have. Don't forget there is alot of knowledge and experience that can come from owning cheap equipment and then upgrading, going from low-end, to mid, to high-end. THAT (imo) is how you become a truely experienced drummer :)
 
QUESTION: Being an Aussie, where being raped senselss for anything drum related is 'par for the course', I have very little idea.......what would US$300 worth of used cymbals buy you on ebay, providing you were shrewd enough?

dude from waht i've seen on the american ebay, prob 2-3 high-end cymbals + like 100 for postage. but if u were to include the postage in that 300, u might get 2 high end cymbals if you were reallly lucky.
 
I agree. In fact I think it is worse to have cheap cymbals than cheap drums. 80 percent of the sound of a drum is in the heads and tuning so you can compensate for a lot with cheap drums. But there is nothing you can do to change the sound of cheap cymbals, aside from muffling them.

I do think the Sabian B8s are good budget cymbals, however. I just started using a bottom 14 hihat for a mini-ride and it sounds very good.
 
I think cheap cymbals have their place. Some Sabian B8Pro cymbals sound OK. But I agree with moving on to pro cymbals after a while. Peace and goodwill.
 
It is a tough balance, as a parent, you want your kid to play, but you can't really afford it, but if you get him playing on bad instruments, that may just kill any chance of his continuing on with it. If you get him too good an instrument, then you risk having wasted money if he discovers baseball anyway. I just urge parents to get the best they can afford so the kid doesn't dread having to play it. You want him to have fun, right? I say good quality cymbals are a big part of that fun.

i have kids too, my daughter plays piano, we had to find it used, but we got her a very nice Yamaha keyboard, nice to play, great features, she loves it, so ya - if quality instruments are going to help keep kids playing, just good all around

I started out on a Sabian B8 pack: 14" hats, 16" crash, 20" ride. I played them for a few years, and didn't know any better. When I went cymbal shopping the first time, I didn't know WHAT I was doing--I was overwhelmed and under-prepared. Of course "buy the best you can" is the goal, but if you don't have a background in music or are 12 years old, perhaps B8 cymbals aren't such a bad thing

......wait, what am I saying?!?!?!? They're horrible. Big waste of time and money (not to mention copper, tin, and sound vibrations)

hahaha!

I agree. In fact I think it is worse to have cheap cymbals than cheap drums. 80 percent of the sound of a drum is in the heads and tuning so you can compensate for a lot with cheap drums. But there is nothing you can do to change the sound of cheap cymbals, aside from muffling them.

this reason to me is the best reason to buy quality cymbals, there is no "tuning" a cymbal, it is what it is, for better or worse...
 
What is a real shame is that there does not seem to be a GOOD "student" line like the old Paiste 404 series ...

I still use a 20" 404 ride as the go-to ride on my snare and kick only set, and everyone who plays it is just blown away by it ... I'm guessing the PST5 is supposed to be the cymbal that fills that spot, but I have never played them.

I think I payed maybe $40.00 for this one at a local GC

Paiste404-100.jpg
 
actually, the Paiste pst5's, Sabian Xs20 and Meinl M Series are all nice, maybe not handhammered b20 pies, but consistant and musical at least...
 
Ya know, as much as I hate to say it, I wouldn't tell a very young, beginning drummer to go all the way to pro pies necessarily. Those B8 sheet cymbals have a purpose - and that is to make passable sound in a beginner environment for a certain amount of time until the student becomes proficient. Then he or she can graduate to a professional grade instrument.

The view that beginners somehow need to "graduate" to better sounding or pro cymbals/equipment has always intruiged me. Surley a musician at any level is entitled to best equipment they can get? To me it's almost like saying to someone "until you can cook on a log fire you can't use a gas hob".

Hope you're well,

Kev
 
I'm not sure if anyone has tried newer Stagg cymbals, but they have a Hand-Made or Hand-Hammered line and most of their crashes are under $150, and most of their rides and hats are under $250. For the price, you're certainly not sacrificing much sound. They really are top quality cymbals for a cheap price.

Just saying...
 
When the Paiste 802s first came out I bought 2 18" crashes for $80 a piece. They were my first step up from the Sound Vader (made by Paiste) crashes I had which were cracked all over.

My budget was very limited. Oh sure I could have waited for months to save up money but I wanted to play now. Plus I really didn't have much cymbal education under my belt. The Sound Vader cymbals got me into the Paiste brand and I've been happy ever since.
 
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