My drum teacher failed me.

Boomstick, You did deserve better for your money. Technique is important. Without it you can't express what you want. Gadd, Weckl, Aranoff, Erskine, Viinnie all schooled players. Three of this list have degrees from major music schools. Can someone figure it out on there own sure. It's just gonna take a hell of a lot longer. Try getting a true paid position in the percussion world without real technique. Yes they do exist and with benefits even. Not gonna happen.
 
I imagine a chemistry teacher failing to teach the periodic tables and everyone here brushing it off and saying it was the student's responsibility. I doubt many other people would see it that way.

Yes, but teachers in schools have to get a formal qualification to teach in schools. We don't often ask drum teachers for their credentials.

I had a similar situation to you in that I had an early teacher tell me to hold the sticks tight. Worst bit of advice I ever had - I played with stiff hands and tense feet. I had been playing like that for close to 10 years when I took some more lessons and a new teacher spotted it. It only took about 2 months until I had eliminated that tension and was playing more 'normally'.

As you progress there will always be something about your playing that you identify that needs improvement, and then you work to improve it.

The point is that you're on a journey. Sometimes it will be good, sometimes bad. Sometimes you will make fast progress, sometimes you will feel like you've plateaued.

The good news right now is that you're now aware of what you need to work on. The other good news is that we have never had it so good in terms of the availability of information. There are so many resources (most notably this forum!) where you can get advice and help.

This won't be the last time that you identify something that you need to fix. That's the fun of it actually. I have been playing for over 25 years and I am still learning, tweaking, improving.

For myself, I am just starting to learn jazz drumming after years spent playing rock, pop and funk. The more you learn, the more you realize how much you don't know...

So: look forward, not back. Take a deep breath, then take an inventory of what you want to improve, pick something, and get started.

Enjoy the ride! Good luck.
 
Anyone can sell teaching services. The quality varies and each teacher is different. For beginners just basic drumming skill might be enough.. When the student is ready for more and does not get what they want from the teacher then it is time to change.
 
Boomstick, You did deserve better for your money. Technique is important. Without it you can't express what you want. Gadd, Weckl, Aranoff, Erskine, Viinnie all schooled players. Three of this list have degrees from major music schools. Can someone figure it out on there own sure. It's just gonna take a hell of a lot longer. Try getting a true paid position in the percussion world without real technique. Yes they do exist and with benefits even. Not gonna happen.
Good post, thanks bigd.

Yes, but teachers in schools have to get a formal qualification to teach in schools. We don't often ask drum teachers for their credentials.
That actually gets to where I was really aiming with this thread. I really didn't intend for it to be about me, but about how prospective students can determine if a teacher is qualified or not.

I had a similar situation to you in that I had an early teacher tell me to hold the sticks tight. Worst bit of advice I ever had - I played with stiff hands and tense feet. I had been playing like that for close to 10 years when I took some more lessons and a new teacher spotted it. It only took about 2 months until I had eliminated that tension and was playing more 'normally'.
I feel your pain on that one. I will say that my teacher never literally gave bad advice like that, rather they were things he just failed to address.

The point is that you're on a journey. Sometimes it will be good, sometimes bad. Sometimes you will make fast progress, sometimes you will feel like you've plateaued. The good news right now is that you're now aware of what you need to work on.
Believe me, I am appreciative of the fact that I am finally overcoming these flaws. It's been a long process, as there were numerous problems to correct, but at least now I am a point where I can continue to move forward and improve instead of having to back up and re-work things from the beginning. I didn't mean for this to be a gloomy thread. Again, I just used my own experience as springboard for a broader question.
 
I agree there are some shocking teachers out there because it's about the money.

Also it depends what the curriculum is where you're studying.

I had to dep at a local music school. Once I got there I had a book shoved under my nose saying this is what they're working through.

There was nothing regarding technique or feel it was just sight reading which personally I'm not great at and I don't find it inspiring or stimulating for kids anyway.

The school were basically putting bums on seats and getting easy money but weren't actually learning how to play. I know this because the first thing I said to them was play something. Without the dots they were lost.

My suggestion would be to find out what a teacher can offer you and bring the best out of your playing.
 
I actually had not considered trying another teacher at this stage because I've been working through my problems on my own pretty successfully. I think I've corrected all the flaws at this point with the exception of my kick technique. I'm still not satisfied with it, but I think I've identified what I need to do differently, so it's just a matter of practice now. If I can't work through it on my own though, I would probably be open to finding a good teacher, if even just to help me accomplish that one thing.
 
Ive gone through a few teachers on my time. I now have 2 trusted ones, the first I found on recommendation from a friend - he works with me on technique and helps me with my reading, and the other I researched the best jazz drummers in the area and tapped him up for some lessons specifically targeting the style.

Both are great as they listen to what I want to work on, and they let me know what they think I need to work on and integrate it all into the lessons.
 
Well, one affects the other, does it not? My poor technique was precisely why I could not attain the sound I was striving for.

Also, I'm not lamenting a lack of "endless rudiments theory and technique" in my drumming education. I'm taking basic stuff, like how to hold the sticks properly, how to work the pedals properly, or how to keep good time. Again, I have no doubt that a good teacher would have taken one look at me playing and instantly identified my poor form and sloppy timing and taken steps to correct them.

I'll give one example how this became a problem later on. My first time in a recording studio, I learned that my kick technique caused frequent unintended rebounds. It was a real problem that made the recording session way more difficult that it should have been. I was unaware of the problem until that point, and it has taken a significant amount of time to correct it. Again, i think this is something a good drum teacher would have spotted, especially within a five year time span. Now that I think of it, that first recording session was also when I discovered what poor timing I had. That whole episode was a rude awakening. It was like all my flaws were magnified loud and clear, and they were significant flaws.

I must say, I'm a bit surprised at the overall lax attitude toward a person that was paid a significant amount of money to do a job, and failed to cover some very important basic fundamentals. I imagine a chemistry teacher failing to teach the periodic tables and everyone here brushing it off and saying it was the student's responsibility. I doubt many other people would see it that way.

There are any number of ways to hold a stick. Benny Grebb, a multi clinic drummer, says he changes his grip while he is playing to suit the moment. His grip, or grips, have evolved, obviously, through playing and learning what suits "Him". If your old teacher had you holding the sticks in clenched fists I would agree its not the best way to play.

I dont understand the "Work the pedals properly" part. You place you feet on them. Some use heel up some use heel down, some bury the beater some dont, whatever suits and comes naturaly mostly. If you want to change from what you do naturaly then you need to work at it, as we all would.

As for the chemistry teacher analogy is hardly relevant. School teachers, in Britain at least, have to follow a very structured path to train them, and modirate them, its not the same in music. School teachers have a curriculum they must teach to students they have little leeway to help student that dont follow the pre planned pathway.

You have pretty much no choice in going to school whereas going to a music teacher is very much personal choice to pursue something you enjoy, so drum teachers are probably using different methods to teach different students. Unless you go to a music school there is no one size fits all way of teaching.

I presume your parents were paying for the lessons? If so a quick conversation regarding what method the teacher would be using, and a few updates on progress, would not have been too much to ask, over five years, regarding the teaching of a minor.
 
If you can't imagine poor technique, I don't know what to tell you. I could probably think of a dozen bad ways to use a kick pedal or to hold a stick. As I said, I've identified the problems and have taken steps to correct them, but my teacher did not. If you still disagree with my conclusions after everything I have written above, then I don't think you will ever see it differently. So thanks for your opinion.
 
If you can't imagine poor technique, I don't know what to tell you. I could probably think of a dozen bad ways to use a kick pedal or to hold a stick. As I said, I've identified the problems and have taken steps to correct them, but my teacher did not. If you still disagree with my conclusions after everything I have written above, then I don't think you will ever see it differently. So thanks for your opinion.

No problem, we all have our opinions.

Its a drum kit, you hit the drums and you press the pedals. If the way you do it works for you, you stick with it, If not you find a way that works better. Its not rocket science.
 
Mike Johnson, who is well-regarded as a tutor, would rarely change any of his pupils' key techniques, i.e. stick holding or kick drum technique. He is an advocate of working out the best method yourself.

I understand and have observed this in my own playing but as a beginner it would be wise to start off with at least a common version of "good technique". There are a lot of so-so drum tutors out there. Someone good with teenagers might be poor with adults. I tend to agree that 5 years is the maximum I would recommend with your first tutor. Even if you back to them you should take a break and explore your own ideas.

Cheers
Davo
 
Mike Johnson, who is well-regarded as a tutor, would rarely change any of his pupils' key techniques, i.e. stick holding or kick drum technique. He is an advocate of working out the best method yourself.

Cheers
Davo

I think this really helps boil this topic down a lot. There are many different ideas of who qualifies as a qualified drum instructor. Many people would gladly pay for the services Mr. Johnston or a comparable name offer. I am sure he may be a fine instructor. On the other hand, he would never even make the long list of names to gain the money of some students let alone the short list of names to study with. I think it boils down to what you're looking for and the level of true commitment you are dedicating to learning. If you want technique training search out a teacher serious about teaching technique.
 
I'll give a couple examples of my bad technique. First of all, one sure indication was that I used to get multiple blisters on my hands. This is not something that should be a problem with proper grip and strokes, and it has not been a problem since I corrected it. But remember I was a teenager with limited resources, and I knew very little about anything. So at the time, I was under the misapprehension that I just needed to practice more and develop calluses so that I would not blister any more. This didn't work, of course. Also, my left hand was ridiculously weak, so I way over compensated with my right hand, making it work more than I should have.

As for the pedals, let me start by quoting part of mikel's post above:

Some use heel up some use heel down, some bury the beater some dont, whatever suits and comes naturaly mostly. If you want to change from what you do naturaly then you need to work at it, as we all would.
That is more than my teacher ever spoke on the subject. Again, me being a clueless kid, I looked at the kick pedal and thought, "Ok, my heel must go on the heel plate and my foot should line up perfectly with the footboard." I didn't know about heel-up, or whether I could slide my foot back or forward on the footboard. There were other factors too, like how my foot was aligned (or misaligned) with my leg, the height of my seat, the distance between the seat and the pedal, etc. What really never occurred to me in heel-down playing was thinking about the upstroke as well, or lifting the front of foot as well as pushing it down. All of my energy was spent pressing downward. This constant pressing down hard into the pedal would cause my foot to slide forward against the toe-stop, and as I kept pushing, my heel would actually start sliding outward. Put it all together and it did not work well, so I would just put more and more muscle into it until I achieved what I wanted, or close to it. Once I started analyzing things carefully, I realized this caused tension from the tips of my toes all the way through my leg and into my lower back. And as I mentioned before, I was burying the beater all the time but also getting unintended rebounds that made my kick work sound sloppy. I wasn't even aware of it until the first time I entered a recording studio and the sound was isolated. My kick technique was a mess, basically. I think a lot of this could have been avoided with some simple instruction like this from the beginning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LQoVrPxkNk

Between my legs and hands, I must have looked like one big ball of tension when I played, which I think a good teacher would spot and correct immediately.
 
Between my legs and hands, I must have looked like one big ball of tension when I played, which I think a good teacher would spot and correct immediately.

Yeah, probably, but young kids can be very resistant to change, too. Also, your teacher may have been under financial pressure to make lessons entertaining, in order to retain students and keep the cash coming in. The music store, you, and your parents, all made the mistake of conflating performance ability with teaching ability.

But let's just agree that your teacher, and the music lesson business in general, failed you in many respects. The music store should have hired a better instructor, or your instructor should have given you more useful information, or both. Now, you have all the information in the world, and you've spent time practicing. Does it matter at all that you weren't very good as a kid?

Think about what it would take to make sure that every drum teacher was at least "good". They would all have university teaching degrees (not performance), be required to attend biannual seminars, etc. That stuff is expensive, and the cost of drum lessons would, in turn, skyrocket, and probably become beyond reach for most parents. Then what?
 
I'll give a couple examples of my bad technique. First of all, one sure indication was that I used to get multiple blisters on my hands. This is not something that should be a problem with proper grip and strokes, and it has not been a problem since I corrected it. But remember I was a teenager with limited resources, and I knew very little about anything. So at the time, I was under the misapprehension that I just needed to practice more and develop calluses so that I would not blister any more. This didn't work, of course. Also, my left hand was ridiculously weak, so I way over compensated with my right hand, making it work more than I should have.

As for the pedals, let me start by quoting part of mikel's post above:


That is more than my teacher ever spoke on the subject. Again, me being a clueless kid, I looked at the kick pedal and thought, "Ok, my heel must go on the heel plate and my foot should line up perfectly with the footboard." I didn't know about heel-up, or whether I could slide my foot back or forward on the footboard. There were other factors too, like how my foot was aligned (or misaligned) with my leg, the height of my seat, the distance between the seat and the pedal, etc. What really never occurred to me in heel-down playing was thinking about the upstroke as well, or lifting the front of foot as well as pushing it down. All of my energy was spent pressing downward. This constant pressing down hard into the pedal would cause my foot to slide forward against the toe-stop, and as I kept pushing, my heel would actually start sliding outward. Put it all together and it did not work well, so I would just put more and more muscle into it until I achieved what I wanted, or close to it. Once I started analyzing things carefully, I realized this caused tension from the tips of my toes all the way through my leg and into my lower back. And as I mentioned before, I was burying the beater all the time but also getting unintended rebounds that made my kick work sound sloppy. I wasn't even aware of it until the first time I entered a recording studio and the sound was isolated. My kick technique was a mess, basically. I think a lot of this could have been avoided with some simple instruction like this from the beginning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LQoVrPxkNk

Between my legs and hands, I must have looked like one big ball of tension when I played, which I think a good teacher would spot and correct immediately.

Once again, I was not taking a pop at you, its different ways of learning.

I have never had a lesson. Not bragging just stating a fact. I picked up drumming through listening and practice.

Back to pedals. I never realy thought about or looked at my feet they sort of naturaly go heel up when playing, trying to change a natural body fit is not easy. I know the terms like "heel up" or "bury the beater" from forums like this, and I believe they are peoples natural ways of playing. Not right or wrong just natural.

It would seem that you have the personality that would fit with a teacher that is all about technique and would tell you exactly what to do. ie "This is how you sit at the kit, this is how you hold the sticks, this is how I want you to play the BD pedal."

Nothing wrong with that at all it's what suits the individual at the time. Most drummers technique has morphed out of lots of different styles ( I wont go into the ridgid structure of the "Music School's, Berkley etc)

Lots of drummers learn to play by differing methods, initialy, then find a teacher If they want to add certain aspects to there playing. They would chose a teacher that suits there requirement. If they wanted to get into Jazz they would look for a respected and recommended Jazz teacher, etc,etc.

Benny Greb said "People have problems because they dont set up the kit to suit there body and where there limbs naturaly fall" Meaning, set the kit up to fit "You" dont change what you do to fit the kit.

There is no right or wrong way to set up a kit, within reason, just as there is no right or wrong way to play it. Experimentation in drum, pedal and cymbal placement, by all drummers, to make playing comfortable for "Them", is how the individuals kit ended up as it is.
 
Once again, I was not taking a pop at you, its different ways of learning.
No worries, mikel. I wasn't being defensive by quoting you. I was just using your post as an example to illustrate how a random person who posted a few lines on the internet covered the subject better than my teacher did.


It would seem that you have the personality that would fit with a teacher that is all about technique and would tell you exactly what to do. ie "This is how you sit at the kit, this is how you hold the sticks, this is how I want you to play the BD pedal."
I think a better approach would be to have the student go through the motions, analyze what's not working, then tell the student why it's not working and how to correct it. Even if the student doesn't follow through with the advice, at least they are aware that there could be a problem with their technique if they are having problems down the road, but I'm pretty certain I would have followed the advice. My bad technique caused a lot of frustration and I would have tried anything to fix it.
 
No worries, mikel. I wasn't being defensive by quoting you. I was just using your post as an example to illustrate how a random person who posted a few lines on the internet covered the subject better than my teacher did.



I think a better approach would be to have the student go through the motions, analyze what's not working, then tell the student why it's not working and how to correct it. Even if the student doesn't follow through with the advice, at least they are aware that there could be a problem with their technique if they are having problems down the road, but I'm pretty certain I would have followed the advice. My bad technique caused a lot of frustration and I would have tried anything to fix it.

Hi Bro. I get everything you say.

My problem being that I am from an era where drum tuition was very difficult to find, If you even wanted it. Every musician I was involved with, back in the day, was self taught, all instruments with the posible exception of piano. Back then I had no idea you could get tuition, I was too busy playing to even think about that.

The theory back then was to listen to vinyl records and try and work out what someone was doing, any happy mistakes you made became part of your style and in that way we sometimes got musicians that were pushing the boundaries and taking drumming somewhere else.

Not that being ignorant of drumming technique, history or other drummers is the road to musical invention, for most its probably not, just an indicator that there are lots of ways of learning, its down to the individual.
 
Back
Top