Danny Seraphine

I take some of your points, but how is Bill Ward busy?

Seraphine is pretty jazz, even big band style. While I gave up long long ago on their later 70's commercial schmalz, the playing on the first Chicago album is a real showcase of both drumming taste and ability (i.e. chops)

Maybe he's thinking of something like "War Pigs", which has a decidedly jazzy intro and some fun, crazy fills.
 
panop- It would be great to see that documentary if you get the chance.

Bo Eder- I was going to get his book Street Player but by the time I finished talking to a few people while we were there, they were all sold out. It does sound like he got kind of a raw deal. But there was no complaining from him at the clinic. He just seemed psyched to play and talk.

And to your second point Bo, about years going by and not picking up a pair of sticks: His playing wasn't perfect. He would occasionally stop a track and start over and he lamented when one of his feet would lag while playing a fill, "Where's Steve Smith when you need him!" and then he'd work it in and fix it. But it was such an intimate, relaxed atmosphere, like you were in his kitchen, that it was refreshing that he showed everything; the beautiful and the warts! Plus, he just came in cold, without warming up and jumped in on a set that was hanging around the front of the store.

Gcort49- You're what they call "hardcore"! There were a few people at the clinic like that and that's what impressed my son. Here is a guy who is living history, but was so upfront and personable.

Midnite Zephyr- He said basically the same thing, no regrets and that he had been blessed with his career; that he was truly fortunate.

Supraman5x14- That was my impression of him. He would go the extra mile to give an autograph or a bit of advice. I will have to check out his more recent CTA releases, though I did get his instructional DVD and a pair of his sticks with the grip indentation.

newoldie- You're welcome! It's funny, because I hadn't really thought of him over the last several years. And now I'm starting to dig in (and really dig) his playing.

Brian- There was a father and son at the clinic like you; the dad was totally into Chicago from the beginning and his son got into drumming from that. His son was about 30 years old. To your other point, I believe he started playing again around 2006.

philrudd- We need to have a "drum beer summit" sometime! As Bo said, it's a place where people can exchange ideas. It would be kind of boring if we all liked the same stuff. But I would say what makes (especially his earlier playing) him not sound busy to my ears, is that he always had a heavy groove underneath, no matter how intricate his snare and tom work was. And like Drumsinhisheart mentioned, I actually find Mitch Mitchell's work to be a bit busy, though I still like his work. I like Buddy Miles' playing with Hendrix a lot more, because he lays into the time. I remember reading a Modern Drummer interview with Mitch where he lamented a gap in his training. He wished he could have had some formal lessons with a jazz teacher from the States.

AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken- I can see how some of the later, schmaltzier stuff could turn people off. There's a scene in "Shawn of The Dead", where Shawn gets dumped by his girlfriend and he's drowning his sorrows at the local pub. When his buddy tries to cheer him up, the juke box plays "If you leave me now..."

gf2564- Sorry to not have restarted that thread! I had no idea that someone here would remember it! And you're right. The passion he had; the real love of being up there, even though there were fewer than 25 people; he seemed just as excited as if it were an arena.
 
Hmm. You mention "Old Days" (one of my most hated songs, I don't know if anybody could have saved that Peter Cetera nonsense). Do you find Seraphine's drumming to be bad on all, or most songs? Like "Beginnings" or "25 or 6 to 4"? I would say both of those songs benefit from his approach to drumming.

I met Seraphine at one of his drummer shows, he seems nice and friendly but is definitely an opinionated guy. That group (Chicago) had some serious rivalries and anger going on behind the scenes, I wouldn't be surprised if Seraphine just found "Old Days" boring or lame (apparently Cetera hated the song too) and thought he'd just have fun, like that guitarist on Radiohead's "Creep". Or maybe he couldn't think of anything to fit the song and just started pounding the drums.

'Old Days' is a more glaring example. '25 or 6 to 4' - meh, not as offensive, but it still sounds 'frilly' to me. One example that jumps to mind is Chicago's version of 'I'm a Man'. I'm a big fan of the Spencer Davis version, but I find the Chicago version hard to listen to, and the drumming is definitely a big reason for this.

Truth to tell, I've never been much of a Chicago fan anyway, so for me, ol' Danny was probably behind the eight ball from the get go.
 
I take some of your points, but how is Bill Ward busy?

Maybe he's thinking of something like "War Pigs", which has a decidedly jazzy intro and some fun, crazy fills.

Bingo.

Ward's obviously not as busy as the other gentlemen I mentioned, but for the 'monolithic metal' genre (which he helped create), he adds a lot of little flourishes that probably wouldn't even be attempted by later 'heavy' bands. And though he moved towards a more straightforward style as the 70's progressed, the first few albums are much looser, almost freewheeling - as would be the case when founding a new style of music. (Ward himself described his playing as more 'colorful' than 'groove oriented'.)

Seraphine is pretty jazz, even big band style. While I gave up long long ago on their later 70's commercial schmalz, the playing on the first Chicago album is a real showcase of both drumming taste and ability (i.e. chops)

Well, that's why they say taste is subjective.

I won't deny his ability - he does things on the drums that I'll never be able to do. My point is that I wouldn't WANT to do those things.
 
I'm cool with you ;)

That's why this place is a forum - so people can exchange ideas. There's alot of drummers (and people in general) that I don't like. I don't try to change anybody's mind - they have to discover stuff for themselves. At least you listened and discovered you're not into it, which is much more than some people do these days.

Much appreciated.

I was certainly curious to see if anyone else on this forum shared my views on Seraphine. Looks like that's a big, fat 'NO!' But hey, I regularly read someone posting a disparaging comment about Ringo or my boy Phil, so I guess we all have to take our turn.
 
Funny, I tended to find Mitch Mitchell's style distracting with Hendrix, while Seraphine seemed to fit perfectly in his genre. Forty-five years ago and I can still hear his patterns, fills and segues in my head. He left quite a stamp on modern music.

As you say, funny; it's the exact opposite for me. Part of the reason I dread seeing a Hendrix cover band is because absolutely no one I've seen has been able to recapture what Mitch added to the Experience. His drum parts are, in my opinion, just as essential to the final product as Jimi's guitar (sacrilege!).

philrudd- We need to have a "drum beer summit" sometime! As Bo said, it's a place where people can exchange ideas. It would be kind of boring if we all liked the same stuff. But I would say what makes (especially his earlier playing) him not sound busy to my ears, is that he always had a heavy groove underneath, no matter how intricate his snare and tom work was. And like Drumsinhisheart mentioned, I actually find Mitch Mitchell's work to be a bit busy, though I still like his work. I like Buddy Miles' playing with Hendrix a lot more, because he lays into the time. I remember reading a Modern Drummer interview with Mitch where he lamented a gap in his training. He wished he could have had some formal lessons with a jazz teacher from the States.

I can dig it - different strokes and all that. Though I'm certain we share the same opinion on more drummers than we differ. Seraphine's just one of those drummers that most in the percussive community absolutely revere, while I'm just on a different wavelength.
 
Ok so first link is for the short 20min or so documentary:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Xw5qXIlrA

The second is a full length concert from 1970. You really see that Terry was the heart and soul of that band.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWKtVzzWo4U&index=2&list=RDa3Xw5qXIlrA

I really have to disagree about DS being too busy. For this band, his feel and energy were spot on. As I stated seeing the with Tris bored me to death.

That was a cool documentary. I'm going to watch the concert footage later. I've seen a few selections of that 1970 Tanglewood show as well as a full show by The Who there. Both bands were on fire- probably some combination of the year and being in Western MA.

Now that I remember it, someone at the clinic claimed to be at that show and said how amazing it was. Danny mentioned that it was just one small example of the magic during that entire time period.
 
Much appreciated.

I was certainly curious to see if anyone else on this forum shared my views on Seraphine. Looks like that's a big, fat 'NO!' But hey, I regularly read someone posting a disparaging comment about Ringo or my boy Phil, so I guess we all have to take our turn.

I'm also fan of AC/DC and I honestly don't think anyone could have played those tracks better than Phil. Somebody gave me that live album they did with Chris Slade (is that right? I don't quite remember) playing the drums and, although a live album, lacked something for me ;)

However, I don't think Phil or Ringo care what people say about them - they're laughing all the way to the bank. To this day!
 
I'm also fan of AC/DC and I honestly don't think anyone could have played those tracks better than Phil. Somebody gave me that live album they did with Chris Slade (is that right? I don't quite remember) playing the drums and, although a live album, lacked something for me ;)

However, I don't think Phil or Ringo care what people say about them - they're laughing all the way to the bank. To this day!

Damn straight!

And yep, that's Slade on the 'Razor's Edge' and 'From Donington' live albums. I'm not so sure it's a coincidence that it wasn't long after the Donington album that Malcolm called Phil about jamming; I think he realized the same thing you did after listening.

And again, that's no slight against Slade, one of my all-time favorite drummers. It's just that Phil Rudd IS the drummer for AC/DC. (From all accounts, even Slade understood that, leaving on amicable terms - what a guy!)

I now relinquish my stranglehold on this thread. Seraphine fans, please continue.
 
Love Danny. At around age 10 he was the first drummer that I actually sat up and took notice too. (At that point, I hadn't discovered yet that Hal Blaine was the guy who really influenced me).

Danny is a big influence. I loved all the jazz guys who did rock.

Terry Kath was also a favorite. What a tragic loss. It was an accident according to something I read recently. I thought for the longest time that it was a suicide while playing Russian Roulette.

Jimi Hendrix liked Terry's playing and said so.
 
Losing a Cymbal Wingnut at Tangelwood Live

Ever happen to you live? Looks like Danny's ride cymbal wing-nut got lost on the floor while changing his cymbal and adjusting the stand in-between songs.
I've been wanting to upgrade my stock ones to a clip on type for faster on and off, perhaps easier to spot on the floor as well!
http://youtu.be/zWKtVzzWo4U?t=22m8s
 
Re: Losing a Cymbal Wingnut at Tangelwood Live

Ever happen to you live? Looks like Danny's ride cymbal wing-nut got lost on the floor while changing his cymbal and adjusting the stand in-between songs.
I've been wanting to upgrade my stock ones to a clip on type for faster on and off, perhaps easier to spot on the floor as well!
http://youtu.be/zWKtVzzWo4U?t=22m8s

Although the sound quality is rough by today's standards, this is a great vintage 1970 show of what the original Chicago band was and not what most think of when their name is mentioned. They were great musicians from top to bottom with the great foundation of Terry Kath on guitar Peter Cetera (yes he could rock/play before the ballads!) on bass and the great Danny Seraphine on drums!
 
Well Phil, everyone does have their own opinions and that is what makes the world interesting. I can understand if Danny is not your "kind of drummer" and you have every right to have and voice that opinion. What I have a little more trouble understanding is........After you admittedly are annoyed when some regularly post disparaging remarks about Ringo and "your boy" Phil, yet you come on to this thread (that yes, has been all pro-Seraphine) and feel the need to make multiple post about how you don't like his playing. One post to voice your opinion sure, but to continue with other post when no one has really tried to debate you and have been very respectful (rightfully so) of your position; I do have a hard time understanding your need to try and reinforce that opinion and/or change others' opinion. Then you try and justify it by saying......"so I guess we all have to take our turn"?? No, we don't all have to take our turn, people need to quit being so judgmental and critical of fellow drummers! I have some that really do it for me and others who don't inspire me, but that doesn't mean I am going to dog them out; I just choose not to listen to them! End of rant...

I replied multiple times because I received multiple questions regarding my initial statement...it's all well documented above. I'm not trying to influence anyone's opinion; rather, if I get a response, it seems only proper to address the person responding, especially if they ask a question. Guess I was just raised right.

Never once claimed to be 'annoyed' by remarks about Ringo/Phil. I've read many posts knocking these two and never even bothered to respond. I don't have to agree with the sentiment to enjoy reading a post, and despite your plea for peace, I rather enjoy hearing different perspectives, especially regarding players in the 'drummer's canon' (Bonham, Moon, etc.).

Again, I don't have to agree with the perspective, but when someone calls out a guy like Stewart Copeland - one of my all-time favorites and the initial reason I got into drumming - I think it forces me to take a look at some of my less-questioned assumptions about players and playing, and analyze whether the person making the critique is, in fact, making a valid point. (The opposite is also true. Case in point - I've never been a fan of Vinnie Appice, but someone posted a link to an early recording on his thread, and that single instance absolutely had me 're-assess my assessment'. That's what these boards are for, after all - information exchange.)

So you'd prefer a forum where everyone agrees on everything? Sounds dull. I'd argue that if you find 'judgemental' posts so offensive, you'd do well to avoid public forums that solicit opinions from anyone who cares to contribute. You never know what kind of insane, derelict, Danny-Seraphine-hating cretins such a thing might attract.

This thread is about Danny Seraphine and his work. It invited feedback, so I gave some. If that bothers you, just skip my posts. Easy.
 
No, we don't all have to take our turn, people need to quit being so judgmental and critical of fellow drummers!

I certainly didn't put those words in your mouth. (Damn that 'Quote' feature!) Again: if criticism offends you, stay off the internet.

I don't know you so I can't comment on whether you were raised right......I will say you can have/state different perspectives in a diplomatic way and still get your point across; takes a little more work/tact, but it can be done.

Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. So far, not so good: just look at the first quote above. If that's what you call 'tactful'...shame on your school system.

Hey, if you don't want a pissing contest, don't start one. Me, I LOVE finishing what others start. But ask yourself one question: why were you the only respondent in this thread that decided to take my post so personally? Everyone else responded with a measured, respectful, but opposing viewpoint - well in keeping with the tone of my posts. You, on the other hand, sounded like Gloria Steinem (look her up).

And don't kid yourself: you'll be reading each and every post I make from here on out. Starting with this one.
 
Danny was probably my biggest influence when I was learning to play. I still enjoy listening to the early Chicago songs
 
Danny along with Bobby Columby were both big influences on me growing up. I loved what they had to offer.
 
Danny is coming to my area in August with CTA. When I found out, I immediately bought front row seats. Very excited.

Danny was a big influence on me when I was first learning to play. I would really love to meet him at the show. If anyone in this thread knows how I could contact him to possibly arrange that, I'd be grateful.
 
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