Guru Review

Please tell me you were high when you wrote this thesis. I can't imagine any straight person zooming in that close.

OK if it makes you feel better lol. London will be the first time I am forced to do without in 13 years so there you go.
Just imagine thinking about something in your head for years, then meeting someone who is actually creating what you envisioned, then knowing that this persons standards are way higher than your own, and then being in the position to acquire this creation, then waiting 9 months for them, then seeing pictures of them in all their glory, then having to wait another 2 weeks after seeing them, then finally getting them, but you're not home...I know they are just "things". I don't care. They're works of art to me.

Larry, I cant believe you took it apart. Not that that's bad, I just never do anything like that. Reminds me of Arky and his axis pedals. I cant wait to see a full kit picture. Did this come with hardware or do you have stuff in mind for that? You need to compliment a kit like this with one of those Ford drum thrones. You took a leap of faith ( one that I would NOT have any problem with) by not seeing these in person and playing them like a lot of people suggest to people buying kits. You knew Andy wouldn't steer you wrong!!
Also, did they come with a diagram from Andy on proper windchime placement??

Old Jekyll, windchime placement insructions were laminated inside the 12" tom case lol. I was champing at the bit to deconstruct these drums for over a year now. As far as hardware, I had to buy 2 Tama combo tom holder/cymbal stands to hold the racks. Other than that I'm just using what I used on my DW kit which will have to get stacked somewhere. When I move them on a riser, the tone should be even more impressive. If I put metal hoops on them on the riser, they should even sound more aggresive. When the lignums harden with the metal hoops on the riser, it will be like musical semen lol.

This is almost a dissertation. Would love to hit that floor tom for 10 minutes myself.

Stop by next summer. Bring the kids. And your favorite snare.

My goodness. I hope you never buy a Ferrari! lol
Paul.

Lol, no way would I attempt that. I don't care about cars like I do drums :)

So....did you like them? :)

Andy should take this review, print it on acid-free paper, frame it in 24k gold and hang it on the wall at Guru headquarters with a spotlight shining on it!

Seriously though, I'm so happy for you, Larry. You have truly found your pot of gold at the end of the drumming rainbow. Your emotion and passion about this kit is palpable and brings a warm, fuzzy feeling to my heart. You sound like a proud papa!

Reading this, I realize that I am truly not worthy of such a kit at this time. It will be years before I'm even able to have this type of understanding and appreciation for all of it. I will just be humbled to be able to play a few seconds on it next fall when we all meet (that is if you haven't decided to enshrine it behind glass by then!).

Enjoy and I can't wait to see the pics.

Thanks Mary. Yea, it is the closest thing I have to a materialistic dream come true. Yup, it's all downhill from here lol. Actually the journey has all of a sudden, become more interesting. I am seriously considering gigging these drums. Definitely will gig the snare, it's just a crime to save it for practice.

And Mar, it's not a matter of deserving...it more of a desire thing. You have to really deep down want something like this, and I did. If you want something bad enough, you'll get it eventually. Yea, let's go with that lol.

Larry, well, what can I say! I applaud your candor, & both Dean & I are extremely keen to hear about the negatives. They may be minor, but they matter, & hearing about them is the only way we can improve.

I'm just sorry that the 10" tom frustrated you at first. I never tested it on a mount, as you were supplying those yourself. That said, what you observed with the plastic spacer in the RIMS construction is consistent with our findings on so called isolation materials. Exactly why we never fit gaskets to anything. Gaskets under compression just don't work as isolators - period,

Anyhow, I'm intrigued about your journey, & thank you for trusting us to build something special. BTW, we're excited about the new In-Tense series too. They're surprising us, & performing way beyond their brief.

Andy, you've done so much. I don't know how to properly express my gratitude for all the blood, sweat, stress, frustration and god knows what else you've endured making these steambent kits. Hey everyone here's something that may interest you. Grea, (Anon) took delivery of a 3 piece kit (plus snare). Andy went through 7 drums to make Grea's 3. 4 boards snapped. He's so humble, he could have trumpeted that fact to show everyone that this is no easy process and how hard he works. But he didn't, he's too humble for that. What does that tell you? Andy really went through a birthing process with these steambent drums. They are really hard to make. He calls it a black art. I am so dam privileged to have these. Words fail.

And thank you for making me feel so comfortable about telling the whole truth about my experience. You know how I am and I must call them like I see them or I will be a fake. I was stressed over it because there's some things that needed tweaking IMO and I didn't want to appear ungrateful or boarish or anything like that. You sir are what I want to be like when I grow up.

And any frustration was aggravated by me. My expectations were so unrealistically sky high that there had to be a storm before it evened out. It's all good now and the 10 inch tom is just as resonant as it can be.

At a gig is really the place to evaluate a set of drums, not in a sterile environment. I am not crazy about my maple snare in my studio, but at gig? Nothing sounds or records better. Well that could change soon. We shall see what my recorder says.

The In-Tense series, based on this snare I have...is a friggin GRAND SLAM Andy.

A drum kit for a lifetime that will hopefully be passed along from one generation to the next. Congrats on this exquisite instrument and I'm eagerly anticipating the pics.

This kit is specifically going in my will to stay in the family. It is already an heirloom. I've never felt this way about a "thing" before. Not sure how I feel about that. I do know that it feels good to know that THEY ARE MINE, THEY ARE ALL MINE MUU HA HA HA HA!!!


Larry, congratulations!! And thank you so much for your thorough review and for sharing it. It's obvious you've put in a crazy amount of time to write all this.
Enjoy playing those drums.

Reading your review (I'm glad I made it through its entire length, haha) made me feel that I participated in a historical incident - thanks for this experience.

Andy, you've created an unbelievable instrument (as always).

Hopefully, everyone here is witnessing the growing pangs of a drum company that will send shockwaves throughout the drumming community and raise the bar across the board. I'm tickled that I am aligned with such a company. This can only benefit us as drummers. To be able to play an instrument that GIVES SO MUCH BACK...well, it's pretty much the very thing that everyone is chasing. It would be very cool to see Guru attain global recognition on the scale of, or surpassing, a Craviotto. Would LOVE to do a side by side with a Craviotto. I've never had the op to play a Crav. Thanks Arkster.

You couldn't afford such an advertisement in any press, so Larry maybe you can hope for a huge deduction on your next purpose. Well done Sir. To both Sirs

Thanks John. (said like Eddie Murphy) It's a happy, happy day!

Andy has done so much. He didn't make any profit on me at all. I threw him some extra money but if I had it I would have given him double what I paid. I can't say enough good things about the guy. Buy Guru In-Tense drums. They are so much better than anything you've ever heard, you can take my word on that.
 
The locating pins for the lugs are 4mm ground finish stainless steel. As Larry points out, there's no real need to remove them, but if you do, it's true, some can be a bit tight to get back in place. We're working on a solution to that, & that solution will appear in Origin II constructions. One solution may be to prevent the lugs from being removed.

That would get the nod from me, I'd rather remove tension rods than lugs. As Larry already stated the lug design in minimal and easy to clean. I vote for non removable lugs.
 
Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed post Larry!

So often there is something more to a new kit or piece of gear than "just" the newness factor. Being in a position to get the sound in your head in an actual instrument is a very special thing, and I'm sincerely happy to read about it!

Thanks for sharing! :)
 
Congrats, Larry.

I've never read such an emotional response to an inanimate object before.... but hey, we're talking drums, right? But, I suppose that if my dream came true like your's did it would strike a deep emotional chord within me too.

I'm sure I speak for everybody when I say, "Post some pics and give us all some sound bites."

Cheers!!
 
congrats Lar.

from the clips i have heard, the Gurus are the best sounding drums i've ever heard.
 
Wow Larry. you sure talk a lot :)

Oh and there's some stuff I forgot to put in too. Oh yea, I can blab on when I have stuff to say to people who are interested in hearing it. Don't worry, I'm not like that in real life. I won't pin you in a corner and force you to endure my rambling lol.

Congrats, Larry.

I've never read such an emotional response to an inanimate object before.... but hey, we're talking drums, right? But, I suppose that if my dream came true like your's did it would strike a deep emotional chord within me too.

I'm sure I speak for everybody when I say, "Post some pics and give us all some sound bites."

Cheers!!

I do tend to get emotionally caught up in things and perhaps puff things up sometimes. That's just my nature so I'm going with it. Sound clips when the lignums harden.

NOT!

I think early next week before I leave for London I will do recordings...as long as I get a day off. I was thinking of doing them outside, so the room can't color the tone, and nothing can reverberate.

congrats Lar.

from the clips i have heard, the Gurus are the best sounding drums i've ever heard.

I gotta say, my vintage Luds come close. But the Guru's have a wider overall frequency output. More Oomph. I cannot get enough of my snare. The Black Beauty that I'm comparing it to, again, is close, but the Guru snare is clearer, more defined, out Z's it, (Z meaning afterglow quality and duration) out snare responses it, out sustains it. For an analogy, it's like the difference between standard and high def TV. More detail and clarity. The ring on the In-Tense snare shell is in a class by itself. It gives a lot back. I actually yearn to play it just so I can hear it again. It's like love I swear.

I made an observation just today about a possible benefit of the non vented shells....I'm not entirely sure yet, but preliminary reports suggest that my single ply heads aren't denting as easy. I played them pretty damn hard today and the heads have no dents at all, not even the beginnings of one. You figure, if the air can't escape, and is trapped inside, it puts more back pressure on the batter head. More cushioning. I'm pretty sure it may help to resist dents. Like I said, this just occurred to me today. If this turns out to be true, that's a very big deal in my book. I would love it if my heads don't dent. I love the single ply head tone, but I will dent them after one gig.

That back pressure really creates a responsive feel to the heads. Like I said, they give back...Tonally and feel wise. My Bass drum beater flies off the head more than a vented drum it seems. Maybe it's me but I'm glad Andy didn't follow the pack and vent. Gretsch round badges aren't vented. I'm wondering if that might anything to do with why they are so sought after.
 
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I made an observation just today about a possible benefit of the non vented shells....I'm not entirely sure yet, but preliminary reports suggest that my single ply heads aren't denting as easy. I played them pretty damn hard today and the heads have no dents at all, not even the beginnings of one. You figure, if the air can't escape, and is trapped inside, it puts more back pressure on the batter head. More cushioning. I'm pretty sure it may help to resist dents. Like I said, this just occurred to me today. If this turns out to be true, that's a very big deal in my book. I would love it if my heads don't dent. I love the single ply head tone, but I will dent them after one gig.

That back pressure really creates a responsive feel to the heads. Like I said, they give back...Tonally and feel wise. My Bass drum beater flies off the head more than a vented drum it seems. Maybe it's me but I'm glad Andy didn't follow the pack and vent.
Ok, now this is something I hadn't thought of. Very interesting indeed. If you think about it, the mechanics make sense, but I have zero experience of this. I'm very interested to hear if this actually works out to be the case or not Larry. I'm completely sold on the sonic differences not venting makes as part of an overall design & shell construction though :)

The Black Beauty that I'm comparing it tothe Guru snare is clearer, more defined, out Z's it, (Z meaning afterglow quality and duration) out snare responses it, out sustains it.
The more sustain bit is a given with the In-Tense shell, but to hear a wooden shell with wooden hoops is clearer than a metal shell snare, is quite something :)


Larry, ambient recording outdoors & expecting to pick up a full tone is a big ask, no matter how good the kit is. Take away the room, & for sure, it strips back everything to the source. The bottom end produced by drums, especially the bass drum, becomes richer by loading the room. If you're running A-B recordings outdoors, that's a fair comparison though. Any kit outdoors, & especially recorded from a distant single source, is going to sound thin & dry. Tough ask, & I'm curious as to the results.
 
Yea Andy regarding the recording comparison, If I can swing it, I will do both indoor and outdoor. Definitely will be comparing to the other sets for some point of reference. I'm debating whether to use the riser or not. The riser will make for more sub freqs I think. Not sure. It's either set each kit up on the riser and record, or keep the kits on the carpeted concrete. If I keep them on the carpet, I can jump between drum sets. Otherwise, I will have to stop the recording to swap sets on the riser.

Andy, regarding the metal hoops, do you think the metal hoop on the reso will make much sonic difference compared to the wooden hoop on the reso? Obviously the batter side will make a difference but will the reso side?
 
Yea Andy regarding the recording comparison, If I can swing it, I will do both indoor and outdoor. Definitely will be comparing to the other sets for some point of reference. I'm debating whether to use the riser or not. The riser will make for more sub freqs I think. Not sure. It's either set each kit up on the riser and record, or keep the kits on the carpeted concrete. If I keep them on the carpet, I can jump between drum sets. Otherwise, I will have to stop the recording to swap sets on the riser.

Andy, regarding the metal hoops, do you think the metal hoop on the reso will make much sonic difference compared to the wooden hoop on the reso? Obviously the batter side will make a difference but will the reso side?
In short - yes. The reso side will make a difference, but not as much as the batter. I never advocate mixing hoop types, especially on an instrument that majors on a pure fundamental. Mixing hoop styles creates imbalance IMHO.

A riser can add a degree of sub, depending on it's construction. That sub is usually near field though. Bigger drums such as your 24" Luddy bass drum will benefit that's for sure, especially if it's tuned fairly low.
 
Great review, Larry. Great drums, Andy. I've really enjoyed reading this whole thing.

I think I'd done a pretty good job convincing myself that beyond a certain point, drums are just drums due to the law of diminishing returns. For example, I've been playing the same maple Keller ply kit for almost 15 years now and they still sound great, though much of their tone gets lost when mixed with the band, especially live. Under the microphone in a studio setting, I can still get them to sound pretty good withou too much effort so I reached a point where no matter how much I might like the latest ply offerings from X, Y, Z drum company, I never feel like it will be worth the major coin.

Until now.

I know Andy's gone to great lengths in describing various design details along the way but to get it all in one post really cemented it all in my mind - perhaps for the first time - just how far these drums are beyond what's available. I mean, 30 tpi SS rods with washers that will never get lost in a machined aircraft-grade nickel-plated aluminum lug with a full inch of mated threads - just wow. Who does that?

Upgrading my kit to just about anything else would be only an incremental improvement, so I gotta think that if I do ever go for an upgrade, it'll have to be something of this quality. Only, Guru seems to have the market cornered on drums of this quality.

Hat's off to Andy and Dean, and to Larry - a most worthy owner of their achievement.
 
Great review, Larry. Great drums, Andy. I've really enjoyed reading this whole thing.

I think I'd done a pretty good job convincing myself that beyond a certain point, drums are just drums due to the law of diminishing returns. For example, I've been playing the same maple Keller ply kit for almost 15 years now and they still sound great, though much of their tone gets lost when mixed with the band, especially live. Under the microphone in a studio setting, I can still get them to sound pretty good withou too much effort so I reached a point where no matter how much I might like the latest ply offerings from X, Y, Z drum company, I never feel like it will be worth the major coin.

Until now.

I know Andy's gone to great lengths in describing various design details along the way but to get it all in one post really cemented it all in my mind - perhaps for the first time - just how far these drums are beyond what's available. I mean, 30 tpi SS rods with washers that will never get lost in a machined aircraft-grade nickel-plated aluminum lug with a full inch of mated threads - just wow. Who does that?

Upgrading my kit to just about anything else would be only an incremental improvement, so I gotta think that if I do ever go for an upgrade, it'll have to be something of this quality. Only, Guru seems to have the market cornered on drums of this quality.

Hat's off to Andy and Dean, and to Larry - a most worthy owner of their achievement.
Mike, this really is a great reply, & thank you very much for the kudos.

I still have my Keller shell Spaun kit. It's well made, & sounds great - certainly as good as just about any ply kit out there, with maybe a few exceptions. So I'm with you on this, & also agree, if I could only play a well finished Keller ply kit for the rest of my life, I'd be happy enough :)

As for Guru Origin. It's good, great even, & certainly distinctive in sonic terms. It stands on it's own. Better? well yes, but it should be, given the cost & the effort that's gone into the design & into the crafting of these instruments. Perfect? No, there's still a number of small improvements to make, & that's an evolution I expect any series to undergo. What I'm especially happy about is how Origin sits within our now completed range. Up until this week, we were known primarily for one unique instrument, now we have a full range on offer, & each has it's own distinct place. Origin is pure like no other drum. Almost devoid of errant overtones, but harmonising overtones that you do want to fatten the sound & make it both musical & satisfying. It's got balls too, big ones, & does sub frequencies in perfect balance with attack.

Compare that to the new In-Tense series, & you really have polar opposites. In-Tense is a stallion of a construction. Wild, resonant, dynamic to the enth degree. In need of constant reigning back, it has more attitude than a spoilt child - & we love it :)

So I'm happy, but now we have to succeed as a company. The success of the In-Tense snares program is business critical. We can't survive indefinatley on kits alone, mainly because we can only make 10 Origin & 25 In-Tense kits a year maximum! It's been tough until now, very tough, but I suspect the hardest times are yet to happen.

Nothing is easily won out there, but watering down our zero compromise approach is something we'll never do. That said, I do believe in the right tool for the job. We're currently considering a road pro kit & snare range using In-Tense shells, but bespoke made Asian sourced shell hardware instead of the UK crafted high end hardware that will remain on Origin & In-Tense series instruments. Something that sounds great, but is also more aligned to touring & playing under live mic's. Obviously, if we make such a range, it will be considerably less expensive. I don't view that as watering down our principals, I view that as offering an appropriate instrument for the job, & keeping the quality where it will be appreciated in that specific application.

Sorry, I'm rambling :(
 
That wasn’t very unbiased was it?

Not at all Larry :)

Watso-ever.

I see what you did here...

OMG, shut the front door, tears immediately burst out from my tear ducts lol. Angels with harps appeared and circled my head...

The first time I played all the origin lines, it's how I felt inside... especially the "cappucino" kit, for the first time over the past 25 years, I see a reason to purchase a new kit, it says it all in my mind...

Congrats again Larry, to say I'm jealous is an understatment :)

I really look forward to hear/play a In-Tense kit at the LDS...
 
The first time I played all the origin lines, it's how I felt inside... especially the "cappucino" kit, for the first time over the past 25 years, I see a reason to purchase a new kit, it says it all in my mind...

Congrats again Larry, to say I'm jealous is an understatment :)

I really look forward to hear/play a In-Tense kit at the LDS...
You're welcome to try them Henri, but your old friend the "Cappuccino" will be there too. It's that kit's last show. After LDS, Michele Drees will take that kit & use it at the London Jazz festival in November. From there, the kit will be retired. I'm not sure where or with who yet.

Reading this, I realize that I am truly not worthy of such a kit at this time.
I think one of our artists would disagree with that Mary. He's already ahead of you ;) ;) ;) (sorry Larry. Just been sent this, & couldn't resist ;)
 

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