Chinese Maple vs. Canadian Maple vs. North American Maple?

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TwoCables

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I just checked out Sonor's Select Force Series and I noticed that they have a mix of Canadian and Chinese Maple [source]. So now I'm curious: how do these two types of maple compare to each other? And of course, how do both types compare to the North American varieties?

One reason I'm asking is that I heard that the Meridian Maple and Select Force shells are made using the same shells. So if this true, then I think I'm about to learn a lot more about the Meridian Maples as well as what I'll be getting myself into in 2-3 years when I get a top-of-the-line set (the Meridian Maples will serve to hold me over until then).
 
There is a perception out there, a belief held by many, that Canadian/North American maple is a better quality wood than Asian grown maple.

I've been told by an reliable source that once the tree is cut down, the wood isn't any different. From at least a sonic point of view, maple is maple, regardless of where it's grown.

Which side to believe?

I don't know.

I don't really see how once the tree is cut into thin little plies, and the plies are formed into shells that anyone could possibly tell where the maple is sourced from, assuming it was from a good cut of wood to begin with.

Years ago people only cared if a drum was Maple, birch or other. This whole idea of knowing where the tree was grown is a new concept to the drum business.
 
There is a perception out there, a belief held by many, that Canadian/North American maple is a better quality wood than Asian grown maple.

I've been told by an reliable source that once the tree is cut down, the wood isn't any different. From at least a sonic point of view, maple is maple, regardless of where it's grown.

Which side to believe?

I don't know.

I don't really see how once the tree is cut into thin little plies, and the plies are formed into shells that anyone could possibly tell where the maple is sourced from, assuming it was from a good cut of wood to begin with.

Years ago people only cared if a drum was Maple, birch or other. This whole idea of knowing where the tree was grown is a new concept to the drum business.
It sounds to me like it's generally believed that North American types of maple are the hardest species of maple while the rest are softer.

But I have to admit that I am more inclined to believe what you've been told because I'm having a very difficult time trying to believe that Chinese Maple is softer than North American Maple.

Or it's like with Taye: they make a big deal about using North American Sugar Maple. To that, I just say "Yeah, so why do you use that instead of some other North American Maple?"

I guess another question I just realized that I have is why North American Maple is said to be the best maple.
 
I know Canadian pine wood is better, because it grows slower in our climate, making the fibers denser, thats why we export a large amount of construction wood to America and Asia.

I dont know that this is the same for maple, but it might explain where the stereotype was formed
 
When I got my first drum shop job 20 some odd years ago, I would spent time memorizing what drums were maple and which ones were birch. There weren't so many choices, so it was a bit easier. But as I said, source of the wood didn't even come into question. No one ever asked, no one ever considered it important.

Anyway, so I'm doing this, and making mental notes about this and that about all the kits.

I remember the older guys would say this knowing what wood was in the drum was a new concept, and back in their day, people would just come in and pick out a kit based on looks, and what ever sizes they felt they needed. Wood type wasn't in the conversation.

So, we have 40 years ago, no one really cared what kind of wood was in the drums.
20 years ago, people wanted to know what wood was used, but not it's source.
Now, people ask about where the tree was grown.

(And yet, people love vintage drums).

In the next 20 years, I suspect people will start asking what kind of irrigation system and soil type was used to grow said tree, and what sort of saw was used to cut the tree into plies of wood. (Ok, I'm slightly kidding...)
 
While Pimento does bring up a good theory, I believe it's mostly marketing hype.
 
This makes me wonder what wood was used in most prized vintage drums.

I guess one could argue that we are just learning more about how to make better-sounding drums (like the Yamaha PHX, or perhaps even Spirit's Ironwood drums).
 
I would think certainly "where" a tree is grown, is important. Just like with coffee. There are only two kinds of coffee beans ... arabica ... and robusta .... yet "where" the bean is grown (Kenya, Maui, Columbia, etc.) is where the coffee gets it's flavor.​
So. I would think, this would apply to trees, as well. But, which is better? That becomes subjective. More the point, which do you like?​
As far as vintage drums, all the big American companies shells were mixed wood, until Rogers came out with the first 100% maple shell, the XP-8. Before that, maple, poplar, gum, and mahogany pretty much dominated the American drum wood scene. I think Premier was using birch.​
 
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I would think certainly "where" a tree is grown, is important. Just like with coffee. There are only two kinds of coffee beans ... arabica ... and robusta .... yet "where" the bean is grown (Kenya, Maui, Columbia, etc.) is where the coffee gets it's flavor.​
So. I would think, this would apply to trees, as well. But, which is better? That becomes subjective. More the point, which do you like?​
I'm not asking which is better, but just how these three species of maple compare to each other. I've already been told that the North American varieties of maple are the best maple woods, so now I want to know why as well as how Canadian and Chinese Maple compares. I mean, are they softer? These 2 woods certainly costs less than their North American cousins!

Plus, it seems to me like the descriptions of the best maple drums drums make a big deal about saying "North American Maple", or "North American Rock Maple", or even "North American Sugar Maple". I mean, if maple is maple, then why not go with Chinese Maple? Or Canadian? I mean, why care? Why did Sonor mix Chinese and Canadian Maple in their Select Force series? It sounds to me like the North American varieties are probably harder/denser - or perhaps just produce better-sounding drums for some other reason.
 
I'm not asking which is better, but just how these three species of maple compare to each other. I've already been told that the North American varieties of maple are the best maple woods, so now I want to know why as well as how Canadian and Chinese Maple compares. I mean, are they softer?
So start looking ... here: http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm

Plus, it seems to me like the descriptions of the best maple drums drums make a big deal about saying "North American Maple", or "North American Rock Maple", or even "North American Sugar Maple". I mean, if maple is maple, then why not go with Chinese Maple? Or Canadian? I mean, why care? Why did Sonor mix Chinese and Canadian Maple in their Select Force series? It sounds to me like the North American varieties are probably harder/denser - or perhaps just produce better-sounding drums for some other reason.
as far as the Sonor Force select, the Canadian maple probably looks better .... so .... it's used as exterior and interior ply. Where the human eye can see the "nice" wood grain. Hidden between and "out of sight" is the cheaper, Chinese grade.​
Madison Avenue learned that trick a long time ago. It's not so much to make a better sounding drum ... it's to make a better looking drum. The intermediate level drums ..... very competitive market .... and "looks" is key issue to sales .... since a lot of these kits are sold without their owners ever hearing them.​
 
So start looking ... here: http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm
as far as the Sonor Force select, the Canadian maple probably looks better .... so .... it's used as exterior and interior ply. Where the human eye can see the "nice" wood grain. Hidden between and "out of sight" is the cheaper, Chinese grade.​
Madison Avenue learned that trick a long time ago. It's not so much to make a better sounding drum ... it's to make a better looking drum. The intermediate level drums ..... very competitive market .... and "looks" is key issue to sales .... since a lot of these kits are sold without their owners ever hearing them.​
How are you able to get your message all tabbed over like that?

Anyway, that Sizes.com page is helpful, but it doesn't tell me what I'm trying to learn.

Also, I do understand that it's easier to sell drums to the mid-range market when they look pleasing to the eye. My Stage Customs have a single outer-ply of birch for the sake of the finish.
 
How are you able to get your message all tabbed over like that?
If I told you, then you'd have no use for me.​

Anyway, that Sizes.com page is helpful, but it doesn't tell me what I'm trying to learn.
That's as far as I'm gonna go, with this game ...you want to know ... you have a computer ... access to google, etc. I could continue to do research for you, but, you probably can't afford my rates.​

Also, I do understand that it's easier to sell drums to the mid-range market when they look pleasing to the eye. My Stage Customs have a single outer-ply of birch for the sake of the finish.
Sure, that's DW's trick. Take a drum shell. Cover it with a really expensive, exotic, wood veneer (like Carpathian Burl @ $845 a sheet), a primo lacquer paint job, and bam, a $4000 drum kit is born. Won't sound any better that a $2000 DW kit, but it sure will look pretty.​
Old trick Ludwig used to do. If the drum shell was gonna get a wrap, then the outer ply was mahogany. Wood looks like crap, doesn't stain well, etc. But hidden under "White Marine Pearl" or whatever, who cares? It ain't to be seen. If the drum was gonna get a natural wood finish, then it got a maple exterior. Years of wear, and those maple exteriors got scratched and scarred, and even more of them got wraped. Now, we're decades later, and "vintage" 60's clear maple exteriors command a high price.​
 
Maple wood comes in two varieties: hard wood and soft wood. Hard wood varieties include black and sugar maples, while silver and red maples are examples of soft wood.

The Canadian and American maple will be similar in quality because we use the same species of Sugar Maple (hard rock maple), from similar growing regions and are harvested at about the same age.

China will use what ever maple is cheapest to purchase at that point in time from anywhere in the world.

Go North American!
 
"Asian maple" has a Janka hardness rating of 960.
"American maple" has a Janka hardness rating of 1450.
Birch has a Janka hardness rating of 1470.

...it's kinda funny how people used to go on and on about the differences between maple and birch. Sure, there's a real sound quality difference, but they are pretty close in hardness. Asian maple is vastly differing in hardness to American maple, and there's a "smack you upside the head and say DUH" difference in the sound, but people still dare to argue that "maple is maple"...
 
I think I'm beginning to understand now why drums like the Meridian Maples have such a low price!
 
I know when I buy leather I will look for and only buy "Corinthian leather" as said before this is Madison Ave. there is no such thing as Corinthian leather but when Ricardo said it in the Chrysler commercials it sounded real special..(anyone over 40 remember?)...that being said what I have heard and not sure if its true you can take your finger/thumb nail and leave an indent in China maple where you cannot in NA...again this what I heard...
 
I would think certainly "where" a tree is grown, is important. Just like with coffee. There are only two kinds of coffee beans ... arabica ... and robusta .... yet "where" the bean is grown (Kenya, Maui, Columbia, etc.) is where the coffee gets it's flavor.​


I thought about that, but we don't drink the maple drums, and we don't attemt to make sound with the coffee beans. Flavor and sonic properties are such a different thing.

I have no doubt the trees may taste differently is made into a beverage, but would that affect the sound?

"Asian maple" has a Janka hardness rating of 960.
"American maple" has a Janka hardness rating of 1450.
Birch has a Janka hardness rating of 1470.

...it's kinda funny how people used to go on and on about the differences between maple and birch. Sure, there's a real sound quality difference, but they are pretty close in hardness. Asian maple is vastly differing in hardness to American maple, and there's a "smack you upside the head and say DUH" difference in the sound, but people still dare to argue that "maple is maple"...

Now, see, this makes sense.

I found this table of hardness: http://tinytimbers.com/janka.htm

But at the same time, who's to say they're not importing North American saplings to Asian and growing the same species on Asian land?

China has a lot of land, and a lot of space to grow trees. It's a big reason why birch drums are cheaper now than they were 10-20 years ago.​
 
Here are some north american maple janka scores:

bigleaf maple 850
red maple 950
silver maple 700
sugar maple 1450

Rock maple is considered to be sugar maple (Acer saccharum). I dunno about chinese maple species, only that china is sourcing a lot timber in russia. There might be a siberian maple that would be as hard as north american rock maple, but I can't find any infos about it. It wouldn't matter anyways, because it would be mixed with other softer maple timbers to do cheap sets anyways.

The big question is, does pure rock maple sounds better than softer and lighter ones? I doubt it. Different, yes.

However I would go for pure north american timber: I would consider it to be more environmentally friendly, since it's from sustainable managed forrests and not from clear cuts somewhere in russia/china.
 
I confess that the reason I'm asking is because I need some drums that will do a great job of holding me over for about 2-3 years. I mean, I am finally going to be able to replace my Stage Customs in 4 months (which were manufactured and purchased in 1997) which is basically the start of a dream come true. But the reason why I want the new drums to hold me over for 2-3 years is because that's how long it'll take for me to save up to get some very high-end drums.

So, I'm kinda using this thread to learn more about Sonor's Select Force drums as well as Mapex's Meridian Maples because I was told that they are using the same shell.

Fortunately, it sounds like drums such as the Meridian Maples will do an excellent job of holding me over. But for a minute there, I became concerned about this Chinese Maple. lol
 
caddywumpus;803459 "smack you upside the head and say DUH" difference in the sound said:
+1 on this.

I had a set of Mapex M series that I got in a trade and maple shells or no, the sound was no where near as good as as Ludwig Classics or the Keller shell drums I own. Sound wise...not even close!!
 
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