Hired Gun

Yes, it's sad to see those musicians with that much skill get paid so little. But they accepted the deals offered to them. The arts never pay well and it is unfortunate. I have a few friends that attended music school. All of them are bitter because the best they can do is play local gigs for peanuts. I'm glad that I went into business for myself and play drums for fun now. I'd hate to worry about money at my age.
 
I just watched it last week. I liked it.

I've been listening to Kenny Aronoff since I was a teenager and he played on those John Cougar records. But it was more recently that I discovered that he's played with practically everyone at one time or another. He really has been THE go-to rock drummer the past 20 years or so.

Last year, I had a chance to do a very small tour with an international artist who had worked previously with Kenny. We opened for BoDeans, and I discovered that Kenny is their drummer as we hit the road the day of the first show. I was pretty nervous, but all the stories you hear about his energy (by FAR the first thing you notice about him—he's like the Energizer bunny) and his outgoing personality are 100% true. He puts you and everyone else right at ease, no airs at all.

It's no mystery why he's so successful. He has fantastic people skills and he brings no ego into anything. He just tries to give the artist what they want, whether it's Paul McCartney or some obscure act you've never heard of. Kenny was just releasing his book at the time and he was talking about it with us. He says there are a ton of good players, but it's the attitude they bring and how they conduct themselves that separates the ones who always get hired from the rest. I guess that makes it like most things in life. What Kenny does and the music he plays isn't necessarily what speaks loudest to me, but man, it's hard not be inspired by his passion and commitment to his craft. I found him to be a very inspiring guy.
 
DrumWild said:
It can be that way for band members, too. Had a friend who was in a big metal band in the 90s. He was probably making $80k per year. Meanwhile, the band leader bought his wife a horse that cost more than most people's homes.
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Well, that probably came down to writing credits. Publishing money makes a huge difference, and often the disputes over publishing is why so many bands break up.

One thing i've heard, but have never confirmed, is around the late 80's record labels didn't always sign the entire "band", rather the label would only sign the singer and primary song writer, while the other 2-3 members were only considered "hired guns" as far as the label was concerned, even if the band was considered a full band. Something about the labels just not wanting to deal with all 4/5 guys in a band in case someone wanted to quit or got fired or whatever.
 
8Mile said:
...Kenny Aronoff ..
It's no mystery why he's so successful. He has fantastic people skills and he brings no ego into anything. He just tries to give the artist what they want......what Kenny does and the music he plays isn't necessarily what speaks loudest to me, but man, it's hard not be inspired by his passion and commitment to his craft. I found him to be a very inspiring guy.
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This echoes what one of the guys in the doco (Alice Cooper?) said, and also what gets said on here a lot: the people that are easy to get on with get the calls.

The Alice Cooper quote went something along the lines of...

"There are plenty of guys who can play...

But it's a much smaller number who can play and look awesome on stage...

And a much smaller number still who can play, look good on stage and who are cool to be around day in and day out..."
 
eclipseownzu said:
I cant believe nobody mentioned what an incredible d-bag the guy from Filter is. Dude wrote one decent song and he acts like he is Elvis or something. I understand that he learned it from Trent Reznor, but that dude took it to a new level
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What I thought was weird was, ok he learned what it was like, now he thinks it's funny to do it to others. Like he didn't learn his lesson.

DrumWild said:
It's almost as if there's a small set of celebrity players who get glamorized while surrounded by top-notch, non-famous talented players, in an effort to sell more music gear to "hopefuls" who stand no chance at all, no matter how hard they try.
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As much I like the movie, and it did explain the "downside" to an extent, it still cast this rather bright picture that you too can be a temporary rock star and maybe even make it your own band if the right person calls you on the phone.

It really glossed over a lot of stuff.

River19 said:
Did not cast Billy Joel in a great light......and I think Alice is just a solid dude, always have liked him.
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It could have been worse. As much as the movie got into what Billy did, the movie didn't even mention Liberty sued Billy Joel for millions, and that Billy settled out of court.
 
DrumEatDrum said:
It could have been worse. As much as the movie got into what Billy did, the movie didn't even mention Liberty sued Billy Joel for millions, and that Billy settled out of court.
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I was a really big Billy Joel fan too. When I heard about the strain between those two guys, I really felt Billy just over-reacted to getting ripped off and took it out on the wrong people. I guess people change. Another example of a hero I don't think I'd like to meet. I'll just enjoy my copies of The Stranger and The Nylon Curtain and pretend it's 1977-1982 :(
 
I’m still to watch this but those of you with access to bbc content might also consider this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2017/27/the-untold-story-of-the-sideman.

Rock n Roll Guns Fir Hire: The Story Of The Sideman.

Presented by Earl Slick who played with Bowie for years he shows us his other business ventures that came to the fore after the death of Bowie along with interviews with others. There’s also a Side Man super band featuring him, The Rolling Stones long time backing singer (who is also featured heavily) and what looks like Duran Duran’s live guitarist.
 
specgrade said:
I was surprised that Josh Freese wasn't on the show. Whos record hasn't he played on?
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For a while, he was everywhere, especially during the MySpace age.

He would even play on recordings for local unknowns, and for cheap. I'd not be surprised if he messed up the market for players at that time.
 
Yup the guy from Filter was some piece of work. All very well learning from his experience of being ripped off by Nine Inch Nails but then to do exactly the same to his "hired guns" and proudly shouting this out on a documentary shows how deluded with his own "fame" he is.

Whoever mixed the sound for the documentary could do with some lessons in level matching. Band sections were too loud and interviews straight after too quiet, I was contantly reaching for the remote to change the volume.

Cheers
Mick
 
DrumWild said:
Nothing "stands out" on the radio, except for maybe this.
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Awww yiiisss!!! Had me rolled!
I plan to watch it this weekend.

As a local "Hired Gun", I know deep down I do it because I love to play and not for the money. If that were the case, I'd be broke as a joke.

Sure, locals hiring locals isn't the same as what's portrayed in this docu, but the principle is about the same.
 
specgrade said:
Just a stepping stone.
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Reminds me of the idiocy spouted by promoters saying 'you wont get paid but you'll get great exposure'.

If the other musicians think of me as a cog, I exit asap...and vice versa.


I think Billy Joel's actions are less than honorable...even if you are screwed over the solution is not to screw others over...basic bit of humanity one would think...but maybe not.

Fear of not having enough resources(greed) is fear of not having enough resources!
 
Well I’ve watched it and enjoyed it.
From some of the comments I was expecting it to be a cautionary tale and I don’t think it was. The Liberty Devito situation wasn’t good but on the whole it’s as I would expect in any job, and playing music at this level is a job. Short term contracts, low job security, you might be successful you might not, pretty much along the lines of every probationary period I’ve worked in my life in a new job.
I was waiting for the opportunity to boo at the guy from Filter, but he said he’s upfront when recruiting. The band is playing in the trenches, not earning fortunes so doesn’t pay big wages. If someone accepts the gig on that basis then they either stay with it or move on as his bassist did. The fact that he might not be a nice person to be in a band with is very likely a personal thing. One could argue that he learned what he needed to learn from his treatment in NIN, and when taken alongside the comment from Liberty Devito that he was told he was just too nice then it makes a twisted kind of sense to me. Look at it another way, he could be magnanimous with the money to other band members and get turned over himself. Jason Moore who comes across as really nice guy said himself in one segment that if he couldn’t achieve the A Dream of being in a band with four or five guys writing original music together then the B Dream is to look after himself and get into an already succeful band. Filter man is looking after himself!
As for Kenny Aronof, aside from the fact that he looks younger now than he did thirty years ago, I found his playing to be stunning, perhaps I don’t have a critical ear because I can’t understand how anyone would criticise his performances in the documentary.
 
Regarding Aronoff.......I find criticism of him laughable as anyone on this forum who wants to be or is a working drummer would probably give their left nut to have half the career he has had so far. He gives the artist and the people cutting the checks exactly what they want and his phone keeps ringing.

Back when I was a broker the best advice I heard was "sell them what they think they want and you will be a rich man, sell them what you think they need and you will be broke on your ass quickly".....

Sure a lot of what he is asked to play isn't technically the most difficult shit around and it is largely feel and energy, but if he always pushed to include a 32nd note double bass laced polyrhythmic odd time sig fill leading into every chorus I'm guessing he would be on this forum all day ripping whomever used to be Mellencamps drummer instead of him......lol
 
Watched it last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved a few quotes from it:
"You're never fired, you're just not asked to do the next thing"
- Liberty DeVitto

"Before Pro Tools, there were pros". (Can't remember who said it off hand).

Rob Zombie's statement about "Being too nice" rang true for me as I really try to be that guy who everyone can get along with. As such, one gets taken advantage of pretty quick with that disposition and stops being nice. Then you're "Not asked to do the next thing".

Alice's encouragement of his players to go and be a star was uplifting & in a pseudo-defense of Billy Joel, I see how after he was burned financially, that he'd become the controlling butthead he did as now he didn't trust anyone.
Took on the attitude that everyone was out to hustle him & shut everyone out.

Not the best way to handle it, but I can see his side.

I plan to buy this for as long as I'm in music, this will never stop being educational. Hired Guns will always be what this docu says (in varying degrees), and it's important for anyone looking to break into the business to see it first.
 
Watched it today and I enjoyed it, reminded me very much of another good and recent documentary with a similar setup in '50 Feet from Stardom'. Would recommend that to anyone who enjoyed this.

Billy Joel doesn't come across very well in this. Also that d**k from Filter, imagine working for him? *shudders*
 
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