Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

That just confusing to me. those "ringy overtones" as you call them are what make a head "open sounding" to me. It just shows how people define their terms differently. I would call EC2's dead sounding. They lasted about 10 min on my kit

Yes, overtones make a head sound open. As far as the EC2's go, it all depends on ones tuning abililites and even more so on the type of drums they are being used on.
 
I'm sure thats all true, but i'm not sure using longevity as the primary yardstick for heads is the best approach.

To the OP, different shells react differently to different heads. As example, my M Birch kits sings for days with ambassadors. My Maple PDP's on the other hand aren't terrible with Ambassadors but through trial and error I have found they seem to prefer a clear 2 ply head. The PDP shells seem to excel at heavier deeper tones vs the lighter more open tones the other kit produces.

I would go with Clear Emps on the batter and CLear Ambs on the reso side. You can always use rings/Moon Gel/bit of tape to modify the sound if more muffling is desired.

I've noticed this, too. On my Unix bubinga kit, certain heads that sound great on other kits I've had, don't sound as good...and vice-versa.

The clear emps over clear ambs is a *great* combo...there's something magic about clear emperors. They seem to produce a super-deep, fat tone. I'm going to replace my clear amb. batters w/ those, once they've lived a full life.
 
Clear Emperors became a favorite of mine after using Pinstripes for years and years. I got a set of them when the store didn't have all of the Pins in my sizes. After I got the emps and put them on, I was sorry I didn't try them sooner. They growl on my 10, 12 & 14 toms. They had a nice biting snap (which some don't like) followed by a nice sustain.
 
I've noticed this, too. On my Unix bubinga kit, certain heads that sound great on other kits I've had, don't sound as good...and vice-versa.

The clear emps over clear ambs is a *great* combo...there's something magic about clear emperors. They seem to produce a super-deep, fat tone. I'm going to replace my clear amb. batters w/ those, once they've lived a full life.

Clear Emp. over clear Amb., that's what I'm running on my Rogers XP-8's right now. Great combo.............on a high end kit like the Unix...I bet they do sound good.
 
Im a beginner drummer, just stated having lessons and my kit cost me £200. its very basic but ive been upgrading my cymbals, snares and heads since. The first set of heads i purchased were Remo Ambassador coated for the batter head of my 12" 13" and 16" toms. to be honest i didnt really know what i was doing. I play mainly rock music and a bit of metal (not recording or anything) and i realised that the heads i bought arent really suited to my music.....or are they?

Should i just get a Pinstripe pack?

I find all heads are usefull, it depends upon the tuning. It sounds to me like pinnies would suit you fine. They are long wearing, have metal hoops that don't bend and affect tuning (unlike the aforementioned Evans) and will last you a long time. I believe pinnies will last a LOT longer than any Evans head. I use them from time to time on the kick.

I see many people posting regarding some sort of quality control issue at Remo. I cannot speak for them but as for me, in 3 decades of playing Remo heads I have never once had a problem. And believe me, I have many drums to head, including all kinds of hand drums. I use Remos on congas, bata, bongos, tambourines etc etc. I have never had a problem.
 
The G 2 will be wide open with some overtones. The EC 2 will also sound open but without the ringy overtones. I like both.

The better one learns to tune, the more those "ringy overtones" become a "lively drum sound." A poorly-tuned drum has obnoxious overtones--a well-tuned drum has nice-sounding overtones.

Also: it makes a difference if you play out miked or unmiked. For a miked situation you can use as muffled heads as you want. But if you play out unmiked, you need some ring and sustain for the drums to be heard. True of snares, bass drums, and toms.
 
It also matters what music he wants to play. How often do you hear rock and heavy metal with jazz toms? I understand where you "open toned guys" are coming from, but if he likes a more controlled sound, let him play with a controlled sound, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like lower end drums have a great ability to have good overtones anyway.
 
It also matters what music he wants to play. How often do you hear rock and heavy metal with jazz toms? I understand where you "open toned guys" are coming from, but if he likes a more controlled sound, let him play with a controlled sound, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like lower end drums have a great ability to have good overtones anyway.

How often do your actually hear their toms period? They pretty much sample replace the entire kit anyway in that genre
 
Personally I think Pinstripe heads always sound like plastic. If you want a thicker, deader sound then something like Emperors is fine. G2s are brighter than Emperors but have the same thick sound. I like the response and variety of sound that a single ply can give, but that's just me. Don't forget Remo CS heads either! Single ply heads with a dot in the middle for a focused sound. Evans EC1s would be similar, but more muffled. The funny thing about muffled heads is that people tend to buy them who like to play loud. Sort of ironic isn't it? Muffled heads only yield one or two sounds from a drum and typically only a few dynamic levels (loud, thud, and plastic thud). I would suggest an open head and using Moon Gels or something for situations where you want a drier sound but still get that body from the drum. Remember muffled drums sound terrible from the audience compared to a 'sweet controlled sound' behind the kit they seem to give. The exception are miced/triggered drums of the modern era. However, if you want a full drum sound that can be heard, ESPECIALLY in loud music, go for an open head, whether that is single or double ply. I'd suggest Remo Ambassador (classic tone) Remo Emperor (deep classic) Evans G2 (brighter thick) Evans GPlus (warm medium) Evans G1 (open modernish) Aquarian Classic (warmer medium) Remo CS (like an Ambassador with a more dead center)
 
Im a beginner drummer, just stated having lessons and my kit cost me £200. its very basic but ive been upgrading my cymbals, snares and heads since. The first set of heads i purchased were Remo Ambassador coated for the batter head of my 12" 13" and 16" toms. to be honest i didnt really know what i was doing. I play mainly rock music and a bit of metal (not recording or anything) and i realised that the heads i bought arent really suited to my music.....or are they?

I need some advice to be hones. my toms sound quite cool and loud and are very resonant but they sound a bit funny with my music, they sound a bit jazzy. I do not want to make this mistake again as i do not have the money to throw around. I was looking on the internet for optimum heads and i previously heard that pinstripes were good for rock music with a more bassy sound. but i was simply scanning the internet to confirm my thoughts about pinstripes and it seems that now every1 ive talked to are saying the pinstripes are not very good and i should try emperors and evans heads and all sorts. id rather stick with remo heads for now but will someone just help me out. what are the best heads for my style of plating? i play rock music and i am looking for lower pitched sounds with less overtones. Should i just get a Pinstripe pack?

You're getting some good advice here and I am going to add my own.

Yes, Pinstripes sound plasticy from behind the drums. However, out front and/or miked up they actually do sound good and you will understand why some people prefer them. They will control the sound and muffle the drum (this will mean the drums won't be as loud as say with an Ambassador). Killing the overtones means killing the volume the drum will produce.

As for my preferences, I use clear Ambassadors on both sides. However, that being said, I play all different types of shows and have some time under my belt. There was a time that I wouldn’t give an Ambassador a second glance. The Pinstripe was designed for a lower tuning, even lower than the Emperor, which is also a good choice. What it all boils down to is sound and durability. What sound do you want out of the drum? How much are you playing? This is important as well because if you are playing four hours every night, then an Ambassador is going to wear out quicker than an Emperor or a Pinstripe. Also, many of us drummers have a tendency to find one thing and stick with it begrudgingly, regardless of what the musical situation calls for (the world won’t end at 10”, 12” 14”) and while anything can be made to work, there are tools which work better because they were designed to. Think of it as the difference between a socket wrench and an open end wrench. They each have their forte’s. For instance, Bermuda and I have talked before about the sound of the toms on Bryan Adam’s “Cuts like a Knife” track; one of the best toms sounds ever recorded. How did they get that sound? There was, according to Bermuda, a lot more at work than just the heads.

According to your post, you are looking for a lower, Rock sound with less overtones. One of the posts (or more) advise against buying a pre-pack. How about an A-B test clear Emperor vs a Clear Pinstripe on the 12” tom?

Mike

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