Improvising fills

drummingman

Gold Member
When I have time to write out fills for songs I come up with some pretty unique and cool stuff (well at least I think I do lol). But when I have to improvise fills off the top of my head I find that I absolutely suck at doing this anymore and I feel like I'm just flailing around trying not to sound awful! I'm sure it's because I've been writing everything out not for note for so long and have not been applying improvisational skills to songs. But, this is something that I want to change and get much better at. I still plan to write out some fills in some song's. But I need to get way better at playing good fills off the top of my head


What has brought this whole issue into sharp focus is the fact that I'm working on cover tunes for an audition on Friday. I really don't have time to write detailed charts and practice everything note-for-note perfectly spot-on. So I'm improvising the fills in the same general feel of the songs original fills. But I feel like I'm just hacking through trying to sound half way musical and not suck too bad!

So, what are the exercises that you all use to improve on your improvisational skills when it comes to fills, and even beats for that matter while playing?

I've always been a pre-planned beat and fill kind of guy like Neil Peart used to be. So to be honest my improvisational skills have always been weak. I really like the things I come up with when I have the time to pre write them and pre-plan them. But when I have to come up with beats and fills on the fly while I'm playing I usually come up with stuff that's not very good in my opinion. So I've got to get better at this asap!
 
For me personally, the only way to get better with improvisation is listening to a lot of music and good drummers. 50% of everything I play is stolen from other drummers and the other 50% is inspired by what I've seen from other drummers. Just listen a lot and whatever you end up playing be confident about it and you'll be fine, it just takes getting used to
 
I've always been a pre-planned beat and fill kind of guy like Neil Peart used to be.

Works great when you're in one band that plays the same songs night after night. Not such a good approach for a working player.

So, what are the exercises that you all use to improve on your improvisational skills when it comes to fills, and even beats for that matter while playing?

Such an easy question, with many different answers, depending on your skill level, and the music at hand. There are many techniques to improvise fills. Best get a teacher.

So I've got to get better at this asap!

It takes time to learn to improvise fills, more than a few days for most. Might be best just to play simple things for now. Focus on learning the fills that are important for the song, and improv the rest.
 
Improvising fills is not something that you can quickly develop. But here is what worked for me. I practiced the original thirteen essential rudiments. Listed here:

1. The Double Stroke Open Roll
2. The Five Stroke Roll
3. The Seven Stroke Roll
4. The Flam
5. The Flam Accent
6. The Flam Paradiddle
7. The Flamacue
8. The Drag (Half Drag or Ruff)
9. The Single Drag Tap
10. The Double Drag Tap
11. The Double Paradiddle
12. The Single Ratamacue
13. The Triple Ratamacue

But I did it in a unique way. I put on my favorite music. And sitting at the full drum set I played the first rudiment all the way through the first song. In time with the song. Could have been fast or slow, it does not matter. And as I played the rudiment I moved around the kit. Snare to toms even cymbals, all around the kit. Then when the next song came on, no matter what it was, I played the second rudiment along with that song, all the way through the song. It can get kind of interesting trying to play some of the rudiments to the tempo of various songs. (Once in a while a rudiment just won't work with a particular song.) But that was one of the goals of the practice session. to try and figure out how to play the rudiments to music. And learning how to play rudiments around the drum kit.

And then eventually, almost like magic, when you are playing a song and you need to add a fill, the rudiments become part of your playing and part of your fills. The rudiments become improvised fills and just flow out of your head and into your hands.


.
 
Something that really opened up my improvisation skills was linear playing.

I used to practice rudiments a LOT, but to be honest, it hasn't helped my kit playing all that much. For kit, all you really need are singles, doubles, flams, and paradiddles. Paradiddles are especially productive for fill ideas and even beats.

Something you'll notice about the greats is that some of them only have a handful of licks, but they use them in creative ways. Think of some patterns that you think sound cool or are easy to execute, then practice them around the kit and in different metrical contexts. I used to practice a pattern of five notes (R l R l l) a lot until it became a part of my normal vocabulary; now I play it without even realizing it sometimes.
 
I'm a self-taught drummer who learnt by listening and playing along to all my favorite tracks - disco, pop, blues, funk, rock, jazz, the lot. Over time, I think I developed a feel for what works where and when and I generally adjust to different playing situations quite well. I improvise a lot, possibly to compensate for my lack of training, technical proficiency and technique probably. But so far so good - it works in the bands I play in.
 
I'm a self-taught drummer who learnt by listening and playing along to all my favorite tracks - disco, pop, blues, funk, rock, jazz, the lot. Over time, I think I developed a feel for what works where and when and I generally adjust to different playing situations quite well. I improvise a lot, possibly to compensate for my lack of training, technical proficiency and technique probably. But so far so good - it works in the bands I play in.

This is where I land as well.

Early on plenty of formal training, but comfort to pop off a fill whenever required became second nature only through playing, and I purposely avoid playing the exact fills during a cover unless it is really required of the music. I think in terms of what the music needs not about the fill itself. I think a lot of guys think in terms of "here is the 'beat' or groove" and then "oh shit I need a fill"......I just play the damn music and mentally I don't really segment it. And I haven't written a fill down in probably 25-30 years. In the time I could write a fill down I could have played 30 fills and learned more....
 
If you've already written out a load of fills you like but only use them at specific times in a specific song it sounds like you haven't memorised them.

Take a fill you like, learn it, put on a song and then play that one fill again and again every time you can throughout that song using different drums / cymbals then do the same with a different song until it's totally fluent .... then pick a different fill and start again .... keep doing this and you'll very quickly build up a vocabulary of fills that you play when needed and you don't even think about as they just come naturally.

Do the same with rudiment fills each time moving it to different voices, the same with triplets moving the accent from the 1st stroke to the 2nd to the 3rd and on a different voice every time.

Much as martianmambo I also found linear playing opened up my vocabulary of fills.

Do all of the above and keep improvising to music you're not familiar with and you should see a quick progression ... you'll suddenly be sitting there playing away and go ...... Where the F... did that fill come from ... lovely feeling :)
 
Every lick is a "word", learn many and you have a whole VOCABULARY, you also need the "connecting" aspect...

Then there are different sistems to develop this, some easy ones and some more complex, in any way, both give great results...

Listen to the other guys playing with you and get influenced by there playing, could be exact mimiking something (do little of this) or against, see what their phrases suggest you, or...

Study with someone who HAS improvising skills, not that just TALKS about it...

VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgOf6HAbQNc
 
I'm not sure if you can learn to be spontaneous, the key to improvising. But I'd think simply grooving and filling will force you to create on the fly. How about 3 bars of groove, then a fill, over and over and over. That's at least twice as many fill opportunities as just playing the song, so your exploration skills will be put to the test.

Bermuda
 
I never figured out a good method for teaching this. There are books for learning fills but they always feel kind of pointless. Usually you get ideas from listening to a lot of music. It helps if you understand what you're doing rhythmically-- a lot of novices have their rote memorized beats and just try to flail in their fills. You have to actually know about rhythm and have it internalized. Playing through a book like Funky Primer might help with that.

You can also get very friendly with alternating singles in 8th notes, 16th notes, triplets, sixtuplets, and 32nd notes (depending on the tempo), while improvising moves to other drums. Try starting those on different beats (or &s of beats) in the last measure of a two or four measure phrase.
 
I definetly teach this. It's no different than developing vocabulary on the guitar or any other instrument. It's a huge subject and how you go about it is very dependent on your general level, interest and how you like to practice.

As a general rule take a small piece. Milk it for what it's worth. Make it your own and practice it in context.

The difference between information and knowledge is a well known subject and it applies here. If it doesn't show up naturally when you play, you can juggle it aroundand make it fit anywhere witohut thinking about it do not move on. It's not about halfasing a ton of things. Know just a few licks or concepts well enough and they will naturally open the doors to almost anything naturally, if you know them well enough.
 
honestly, same. Whenever I improvise fills (which I actually do a lot more than I should :/ ) it ends up being the same boring single stroke bass drum fill ( K K S S K K S S etc etc....sometimes I do these in triplets which is about as interesting as my improvised fills get)
 
I never figured out a good method for teaching this.

Really? I feel I can fill a short book with ways to teach this. I've had a few great lessons myself on the topic, and it's something I spend a lot of time teaching. There are 2 books that have worthwhile content, off the top of my head: Studio and Big Band Drumming (Steve Houghton) and Technique Patterns (Chaffee).

You mentioned alternating singles in various subdivisions, which is an obvious starting point. But how to navigate the kit is not well-discussed or documented.

The other obvious starting point is how and when to transition from beat to fill and back. It's useful to become able to start a fill at any point in the measure, and return on beat 1.
 
For me the best ideas come from listening to what the other players are doing rhythmically. Taking rhythmic ideas leading up to a fill and using them somehow. Fills tend to fit in with what's going on better that way. And that level of listening is just good all around for the band.

Another helpful trick is to sometimes limit yourself to one or two voices on the kit. I.e. not every fill has to be some roll around all the drums or whatever.

A practice idea I use sometimes is to play along to recorded music and do fills almost constantly. Trying to keep it musical. That flexes the improv muscles. Doing this too much can probably lead to playing busier if you're not careful.
 
When I have time to write out fills for songs I come up with some pretty unique and cool stuff (well at least I think I do lol). But when I have to improvise fills off the top of my head I find that I absolutely suck at doing this anymore and I feel like I'm just flailing around trying not to sound awful! I'm sure it's because I've been writing everything out not for note for so long and have not been applying improvisational skills to songs. But, this is something that I want to change and get much better at. I still plan to write out some fills in some song's. But I need to get way better at playing good fills off the top of my head


What has brought this whole issue into sharp focus is the fact that I'm working on cover tunes for an audition on Friday. I really don't have time to write detailed charts and practice everything note-for-note perfectly spot-on. So I'm improvising the fills in the same general feel of the songs original fills. But I feel like I'm just hacking through trying to sound half way musical and not suck too bad!

So, what are the exercises that you all use to improve on your improvisational skills when it comes to fills, and even beats for that matter while playing?

I've always been a pre-planned beat and fill kind of guy like Neil Peart used to be. So to be honest my improvisational skills have always been weak. I really like the things I come up with when I have the time to pre write them and pre-plan them. But when I have to come up with beats and fills on the fly while I'm playing I usually come up with stuff that's not very good in my opinion. So I've got to get better at this asap!

Hmm. It might not help you by the time you have to audition.

But my entire life has been revolving around listening and imitating - basically attempting to emulate the masters. But in this life-long process, I've either backlogged a bunch of licks subconsciously, or have just learned how to create stuff on the fly because I've heard so much.

I like Rush and Neil Peart, but I never did understand his penchant for really working out parts and sticking to them - but in Rush we expect that. It was really obvious when he played the Buddy Rich thing how that mentality just doesn't work. It's an Eagles mentality too - they tend to stick to the songs the way they recorded them live, and i guess that's good for the ticket buyers who want to hear the hits, but as a musician that must be aggravating not being able to stretch out (if you can).

I say go with what Bermuda was saying: play time, then force your way through fills. Record yourself doing it and see if you like it on the playback. There are also patented drum fills provided by the Motown drummers that are simple and work perfectly for a lot of things.

However, you may be lucky in that your job is really to provide time and feel. Fills and licks are at the bottom of my list when I go on an audition, so maybe you'll be ok by just not playing any fills at all. In fact, I'll bet you'll stick out more in a positive way by not playing fills.
 
I improvise fills based on the song dynamics. But I have a bag of tricks I can pull from, like certain fills I only use for blues songs, certain ones for rock & other ones for reggae. But mostly song dynamics will dictate improvising on the fills. I think Lars Ulrich does a good job of this.
 
Really? I feel I can fill a short book with ways to teach this.

Sure. It's not like I'm lacking for ways of developing some pretty arcane areas of drumming. Anybody who played through 15% of my stuff would certainly be capable of improvising a fill. Developing normal skills you learn everything you need to do that. I've just never found a decent method for directly working on fills that didn't kind of suck. Joel Rothman has written a ton of stuff on it, and he comes the closest, but it's still a drag to play through, and completely uninspiring. Erskine has a book of fills that is decent, but playing through it just feels stupid.

I don't know what it is. There's some missing context element that makes those things not work for me. I don't know how you arrive at this or these or this or this with exercises.

I've had a few great lessons myself on the topic, and it's something I spend a lot of time teaching. There are 2 books that have worthwhile content, off the top of my head: Studio and Big Band Drumming (Steve Houghton) and Technique Patterns (Chaffee).

I'm aware of both of those. Houghton is largely about setting up kicks, which is slightly different from normal fills. Chaffee is general technique stuff for soloing-- good for virtuosic feature-type breaks and solos, not so much for ordinary functional filling supporting a context, which is what I'm talking about.

You mentioned alternating singles in various subdivisions, which is an obvious starting point. But how to navigate the kit is not well-discussed or documented.

I work some stock moves into as many practice routines as possible. You can also run them by themselves single-handed in a set rhythm. That helps.
 
I don't know how you arrive at this or these or this or this with exercises.

Well, you probably can't, through exercises alone. Certain things you can point to though -- a "call and response", a hemiola, a "fill and catch". But overall, it's too dependent on the music at hand, and the rapport between the musicians. I guess I'm referring to improvising fills on a more basic level -- simply feeling confident about leaving a groove, making up a fill, and getting back on the 1 (or any other beat), without getting lost, speeding up or slowing down. This wouldn't explain when to play a fill, but it would help you to execute cleanly if the opportunity arises.


I'm aware of both of those. Houghton is largely about setting up kicks, which is slightly different from normal fills. Chaffee is general technique stuff for soloing-- good for virtuosic feature-type breaks and solos, not so much for ordinary functional filling supporting a context, which is what I'm talking about.

The Hougton stuff I like for the idea that the right hand play the "melody" of the rhythm, and the left hand tends to fill in the remaining subdivisions. It's a good way to get beyond playing single strokes, without diving immediately into a rudimental approach.

Agreed, the Chaffee Techniques stuff is for the more advanced/showy type of playing. But it's still nice to see it explained in a clear manner. It gets the student acquainted with improvising singles and doubles.
 
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