Joe Walsh - The truth about music

What do we want out of music?

The buzz
A higher calling
Creative kicks
The challenge of composition
Sense of mastery
The physical sensation of drumming movements
Party party!
Fame and fortune
Popularity
Ego strokes
Escape from 9 to 5
Beats watching the telly

Apart from the buzz of playing music with people with instruments and the physical sensation, a person can get all those things by sequencing music.

Let's not forget the chicks...
 
This is all stuff that Bob Lefsetz talks about pretty much daily in his newsletter. Anyone interested in the subject of how the business is changing and what it takes to make it as a musician today should really seek out the Lefsetz letters.

Thanks, never heard of this looks great.

Music like many industries changes. There are opportunitie sin the new ways, see the new book 'making music' by David Byrne on this. More opportunities than ever for new undiscovered people who used to need to be 'discovered' by scouts to get into an expensive studio to start.
 
Seeing this made me feel bad for Joe Walsh.

Growing up my father used to play his records and I liked them alot. He was one of my early guitar heros when I was 14 or so. It's a shame he has such antiquated views about drum machines and the like.
 
"oh there's no mojo, no magic everyones playing to a drum machine"

I want to point out how atrociously boring and terrible the drumming on his newest album Analog Man was.

Just to contrast this whole "live drummer vs. drummer machine"

Joe Walsh "live drummer"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdJQ4xr6l_U&feature=share&list=PL514DF12F1514D0B8
WOW THAT'S SUCH AN INTERESTING DRUM BEAT WITH SO MUCH ENERGY

Animals as Leaders, actual drum machine
http://youtu.be/ohXFfI70mLw

wow such a boring lifeless drum beat.

Really sad to see one of the old greats Like Joe Walsh completely miss understanding modern developments, like anything, technology can be used or misused.
 
As we sit, people tend to take the jobs that pay the best and require the least as allowed by their overall skillset....

I think this disparity of vocation to advocation is what will spell the failure of modern society.

Until passion of an individual truly demarks functional survivability we will see lack luster performance at critical points - fueled by the need to make a living.

This, of course, goes far beyond the music industry.

Add up all of these lack luster performances and systems tend to fall apart when stressed.

Replace the main focus of amassing resources with executing what you are passionate about and those systems will have a robust nature that will survive extremes.
 
"oh there's no mojo, no magic everyones playing to a drum machine"

I want to point out how atrociously boring and terrible the drumming on his newest album Analog Man was.

Just to contrast this whole "live drummer vs. drummer machine"

Joe Walsh "live drummer"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdJQ4xr6l_U&feature=share&list=PL514DF12F1514D0B8
WOW THAT'S SUCH AN INTERESTING DRUM BEAT WITH SO MUCH ENERGY

Animals as Leaders, actual drum machine
http://youtu.be/ohXFfI70mLw

wow such a boring lifeless drum beat.

Really sad to see one of the old greats Like Joe Walsh completely miss understanding modern developments, like anything, technology can be used or misused.

I actually like the drumming on the Walsh track. Nice solid groove.
 
I became aware in high school band that most members of our local symphony orchestra (Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra) had second jobs, repaired / bought / sold instruments, and / or taught at the local college conservatory to augment their income. At the time, I was playing in a couple not very serious bands comprised of not very good musicians; me included! I saw a LOT of much more talented musicians than I would ever be not making a living from their music. So I went to school to be an engineer. This was the early 70s.

There was a lot of money made in rock, country, and “popular” music (less so in jazz and classical) in the next 30 years or so but sadly it seems most of it didn’t go to the people actually making the music.

Certainly divorcing the music from the need to manufacture and distribute the media transporting it has radically changed the music business and the power structure. As others have noted, even world class musicians have to work harder as they now not only have to make the music, they have to market it too. My hope is that eliminating the various middlemen and music biz infrastructure will put more money in the hands of the folks making the music.

This has not all shaken out yet by any means.
 
"oh there's no mojo, no magic everyones playing to a drum machine"

I want to point out how atrociously boring and terrible the drumming on his newest album Analog Man was.

Just to contrast this whole "live drummer vs. drummer machine"

Joe Walsh "live drummer"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdJQ4xr6l_U&feature=share&list=PL514DF12F1514D0B8
WOW THAT'S SUCH AN INTERESTING DRUM BEAT WITH SO MUCH ENERGY

Animals as Leaders, actual drum machine
http://youtu.be/ohXFfI70mLw

wow such a boring lifeless drum beat.

Really sad to see one of the old greats Like Joe Walsh completely miss understanding modern developments, like anything, technology can be used or misused.

Your missing Joes point.His beef is with the current formula of studio production.Using a drum machine has become the status quo.He dosen't completely reject technology,he just dosen't completely rely on it

The somewhat flawed organic human live performance , is augmented by click tracks,tape loops,auto tune ect.Where's the sponteneity of a few guys just plugging in and letting it rip.

No one wants to pay for music anymore.It just gets tougher and tougher to actually make a living as a musician.

He, like me,comes from a time, where we played bars,clubs school dances and every other venue we could to make a buck and pay our dues.We also got paid.No one worked for free.We wouldn't even entertain the idea of working for free.You played......you got paid....period.

The concept of perfection has overridden the human performance of instruments that are played by hand ,by flawed and IMPERFECT human musicians.

That obsession with perfection,and the notion that music is free........... need to go away.

Steve B
 
No one wants to pay for music anymore.It just gets tougher and tougher to actually make a living as a musician.


That obsession with perfection,and the notion that music is free........... need to go away.

Steve B

Those are the key points, right there. I couldn't agree more.
 
The somewhat flawed organic human live performance , is augmented by click tracks,tape loops,auto tune ect.Where's the sponteneity of a few guys just plugging in and letting it rip.
Once again have you listened to Joe Walsh's new album? He may have a fair point but he has no right to say that when his album is almost as sterile as a Nickleback album, it's just being hypocritical.

No one wants to pay for music anymore.It just gets tougher and tougher to actually make a living as a musician.

He, like me,comes from a time, where we played bars,clubs school dances and every other venue we could to make a buck and pay our dues.We also got paid.No one worked for free.We wouldn't even entertain the idea of working for free.You played......you got paid....period.
Well that doesn't make sense, as there's more Indie bands making a living on music, and nothing but music, now than ever, he's just complaining about the fact that you can't make AS MUCH money now than you could back in the day, Joe isn't complaining about having to play for free, he probably hasn't played a single show in the past 20 years that cost less than 60$ a ticket.

there's no possible way you can complain about music not being a valid money making means when bands and artists like Metric, Neon Indian, Com Truise, Intronaut, Local Natives, Cage The Elephant, ect ect ect have been formed in recent years and continue to make a living off of music despite piracy and the "everything for free" attitude of people today.


the notion that music is free........... need to go away.

Steve B
Couldn't disagree more, with music being free it allows the average person to enjoy a much broader range of music; which will make it more likely for that person to find music they enjoy and become passionate about, and people will always pay artists that they are passionate about.



Two different views from two different era's I guess..
 
Couldn't disagree more, with music being free it allows the average person to enjoy a much broader range of music; which will make it more likely for that person to find music they enjoy and become passionate about, and people will always pay artists that they are passionate about.

You had me up until this point. Romantic notion, but not at all practical. Who the hell is gonna start paying for something that they think they're entitled to for free?

It's that mindset that is the crux of the issue with this particular point. The very line of thought that someone else's efforts should be free purely because it's "art" is what stems the problem to begin with.
 
You had me up until this point. Romantic notion, but not at all practical. Who the hell is gonna start paying for something that they think they're entitled to for free?

It's that mindset that is the crux of the issue with this particular point. The very line of thought that someone else's efforts should be free purely because it's "art" is what stems the problem to begin with.
Well to be fair, I could be wrong.

I think the challenge of modern musicians will have to be to make people feel privileged to have access to free music, not that they are entitled to it, which of course is going to be quite a hurdle to overcome.

I absolutely think that musicians need to embrace free music though, because it's not going to stop. You can either make the best out of it as you can, or you can ignore it.

A question of whether it is moral or immoral to pirate music is another topic entirely,imo.
 
I think Joe Walsh is totally whining about the money part. I agree completely with his points about the human/artistic side.

The new era has important strong points:
-- more opportunity than ever for new artists because technology has made them able to access recording easier. What artists decide to do with the technology is up to them artistically, and varies
---record companies having to actually do something, and not get filthy rich
---artists actually show themselves and go out and play to make money
----artists making less but ultimately being more in control of their art and product

On the Production side - bad things
---autotune, technology, machines and 'unorganic' sounding music.

People will tire, or are tiring of the processed recorded pablum we are being fed.
There could soon be a niche market for live 'off the floor' recorded music. It will distinguish itself from all the processed stuff by being just that - live, organic, imperfect, just like Robert Johnson's hotel room recordings. People might then be interested in it because its 'different' from todays pablum. Fashion runs full circle. Just like organic food, it simply awaits the right times and market.
 
Very interesting thread here. Old vs new in a way. Both tracks posted earlier wore on me by the end lol. I saw Joe with the Eagles about 5 years ago, and man was he giving the drummer some s&%#. It wasn't Don Henley it was someone else, Don didn't play the first few songs. He started a few songs in on a different drumset. But I thought it was pretty mean to clearly chastise the guy. I couldn't even tell what the drummer was doing wrong.
 
Between youtube and music recording apps and inexpensive software, production of music (like production of movies and written works) has become democratised. That means that talented individuals can reach wide audiences without the support of record labels.
.

This is certainly the part I love. So many bands I've discovered over the last 5-6 years wouldn't be possible without the net.

And for myself, the last album I played on didn't sell much, but it went all over the world. Pretty trippy to think people from Japan to the Netherlands own a CD I'm on. That certainly would not have been possible in a prior years.

I completely agree with Joe and disagree with the "grumpy" factor.

I grew up in NY City.IN the late 60's and early to late 70's you could go and see live bands 7 days a week ,from late afternoon to early morning.From amatures to pro recording artists,they were all there.

One of the things they had in common was they ALL,repeat ,ALL got paid.In every band I was in,we did out fair share of unpaid charity benefits,or the occasional benefit to help with medical bills or a family displaced because their house burned down

But playing a gig in a pub or club..for free.NEVER.

.....
Now all those venues want free music,and it's tougher and tougher to make a living at it,because plenty of younger bands buy into the free music thing and will cut your legs out to actually lose money playing for free.For ego or exposure or both,while the venue owner makes all the cash.

I've said it before and it bears repeating.If you play for free(especially amatures) all the time,you're just making it tough for musicians who want to do this for a living,and are good at it.

Music is NOT free.There's always a price associated with it's performance in a studio or live.

Steve B

This is where I do agree. Although, it is perhaps a separate discussion, as the downhill of pay for live music started well before the internet.

Still, it is a bit sad. So many great musicians and/or great bands were able to develop and become great because they made their living playing live music on a local level. They could devote 24/7 to their craft because they got paid, and didn't absolutely have to have a day job to eat.

Couldn't disagree more, with music being free it allows the average person to enjoy a much broader range of music; which will make it more likely for that person to find music they enjoy and become passionate about, and people will always pay artists that they are passionate about...

Perhaps, but it's not always possible.
There are some bands I am passionate about, but they are on the other side of the world. If they don't play the US, I can't buy the ticket and get the t-shirt. Heck, just finding the albums can be a challenge. Sure, I'll try to at least get them their 99 cents a song download, but that only pays the band a few pennies against their recording cost.

But of course, not everyone even bothers to try to legally download the music.


People will tire, or are tiring of the processed recorded pablum we are being fed.
There could soon be a niche market for live 'off the floor' recorded music. It will distinguish itself from all the processed stuff by being just that - live, organic, imperfect, just like Robert Johnson's hotel room recordings. People might then be interested in it because its 'different' from todays pablum. Fashion runs full circle. Just like organic food, it simply awaits the right times and market.

Yes, but it will be mainstream? Or just a fringe element of people?

I'm amazed by the number of grown adults I have met who have NEVER seen a live band.
 
Couldn't disagree more, with music being free it allows the average person to enjoy a much broader range of music; which will make it more likely for that person to find music they enjoy and become passionate about, and people will always pay artists that they are passionate about.



Two different views from two different era's I guess..

People will not pay for something they can get for free, especially if the lack of a price tag is condoned. For heaven's sake, more people steal their music now (mp3s) than pay for it! I think it is totally naive to think people will pay.

It's great that people have a low-cost way to make and disseminate music, but it is an illusion that this makes music FREE. There is a huge investment of time and talent, not to mention equipment if you play certain instruments. The idea that anybody who has something to say, musically, will say it whether there is financial reward or not, is mistaken. You'll never know how many people will never take up an instrument because it is just another expensive hobby with little chance of even paying for itself. Some of the best musicians I've ever known have quit because they needed to spend their time making a living rather than indulging in a hobby. Only people with a surplus of time and $ will bother to make music. The people who will truly starve for their art are few and far between.
 
People will not pay for something they can get for free, especially if the lack of a price tag is condoned. For heaven's sake, more people steal their music now (mp3s) than pay for it! I think it is totally naive to think people will pay.

personally I know many people who pirate music then pay for the album later.

It's a pretty common thing among most of my friends who are into music, yes some people won't pay for it, but there definitely are people who are willing to contribute money to the bands they support, even if it's just buying T-shirts or other merch.

And we could go into whether or not this is ethical(which clearly is where this is headed), but that doesn't change the fact that artists need to adjust to this, not ignore it.
 
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