The Grand Master Buddy Rich

mattsmith said:
First of all, Mike James' website is great and what he said about how Buddy Rich invented this whole direction wer'e talkin' about now is dead on. And in jazz, invention is always the bigger deal than perfecting the invention. This is important to understand 'cause there are some good guys on this forum who think that Buddy Rich is like some relic of the past, who like Gene Krupa created the idea of speed with musicianship, but could never compete with the mutant superheros who have come from that style in today's time like Vinnie C or Virgil Donati, or Weckl.

There was even a guy on the Donati site who said that Virgil would grind Rich into dust. My dad looked at that and said "Any idiot can write on the Internet." To me, Buddy Rich is definately more important because he was the real creator, and the only reason guys like that exist in the first place. And I say this without even thinking about the technique or the obvious greatness of guys like Vinnie C and to some extent Donati.

Now when it comes to this speed issue. I have read about Tiger Bill sayin' this and I know Art Verdi believes this too. And when it comes to raw speed like just goin full out with rudiments, they know what they are talkin' about 'cause they are 2 of the fastest drummers to ever walk the Earth. But those tricks they talk about Rich doing are to me part of the creation that made Rich the great innovative drummer he will always be.

About where you say Tiger Bill feels Rich really wasn't that fast, what I believe he is really sayin' is that in his opinion Rich is not the fastest to ever live, and that's a different thing altogether. Remember when you are talkin' about speed opinions that come from top 10 WFD guys, your talkin' about absolutes.

But I don't think speed is what made Rich the great player anyway. A long time ago I was told to listen to super early Rich to get the true meaning of how great he was. Like listen to the Artie Shaw band when he played with it in the late 1930s. Then listen to it the year before he joined. The Rich groove made that band a thousand times better and the players are all better 'cause he's there. it was really the first time anybody had ever heard real independence combined with a tight and crisp high-hat. In other words, the start of modern drumming.

On the flip side listen to that Tommy Dorsey guy's band when Rich left. It was never the same. And nobody played fast on that band. His speed was only a piece of the puzzle.

It's funny, Rich has never been my very favorite. I am more into Elvin Jones and Tony Williams. But I always feel like Rich needs to be defended because of some of the opinions that are out there, like how bein' a nasty guy applies to his playing, or how some guy doesn't like the sound of his snare on a West Side Story video. To me the bigger question is why people judge stuff based on these things.

I think that (I'm saying that before my posts are deleted, for unknown/cryptic reasons...) you should also remember that Buddy Rich was the greatest drummer who ever lived for Mr. Verdi. He was "the Babe Ruth of the drums", as his own words named/crowned him. And his speed was also AMAZING. Even to this day of 2006. What this guy did in 1970 is still mindblowing today. 36 years after. He was definitely damn fast for his time, and damn fast for today's standard too. From what I can remember, BR already reached 'round 1.100 single strokes per minute back in the 70's. And that's SICK! Of course. I agree that his abilities were faaar, faaaar more present in his musicality, rhythm notions than on speed alone. What made BR's solos so amazing and unbelievable were the intelligent aplications he gave to them (to those tecniques and speed). The spontaneous beat-combinations and incredible, also spontaneous, musicality and genius-like showmanship were the responsible for the general awesomeness back then (and "the kids" are still amazed in 2006 too. Just check you.tube for some opinions on the subject...).

p.s. This added info is better suited for non BR fans than the otherwise. It was not really entirely directed at you. Sorry for anything...

All the best.
 
Buddy Rich set a level for every drummer!!!when someone like Neil Peart does a cd like Burning for Buddy,we should all sit up and take notice.I ve heard a story that one time Buddy broke a spring on his bd pedal while soloing, and still managed to play 64th notes on it!!!his band (Buddy)played at my moms after prom party,(i am 42,you do the math)Buddy was hard on folks,but harder yet on himself!!started performing at age 2(traps the boy wonder)Buddy suffered no fools,and yet when being rushed to a hospital during a heart attack,a nurse asked him if he had any allergies, he replied"country music!"Steve Smith plays with Buddys buddies,(former members of Richs band),this should speak volumes,to anyone who thinks Buddy wasn't all that.he was all that and so very much more!!!!
 
neilpscuz said:
Buddy Rich set a level for every drummer!!!when someone like Neil Peart does a cd like Burning for Buddy,we should all sit up and take notice.I ve heard a story that one time Buddy broke a spring on his bd pedal while soloing, and still managed to play 64th notes on it!!!his band (Buddy)played at my moms after prom party,(i am 42,you do the math)Buddy was hard on folks,but harder yet on himself!!started performing at age 2(traps the boy wonder)Buddy suffered no fools,and yet when being rushed to a hospital during a heart attack,a nurse asked him if he had any allergies, he replied"country music!"Steve Smith plays with Buddys buddies,(former members of Richs band),this should speak volumes,to anyone who thinks Buddy wasn't all that.he was all that and so very much more!!!!

Ya he set a level alright! thats almost impossible to reach
 
neilpscuz said:
!!!

(...)

I ve heard a story that one time Buddy broke a spring on his bd pedal while soloing, and still managed to play 64th notes on it!!!

(...)

!

(...)

!!!!

I'm in the middle of playing 64th notes with my head on the desk right now.

Is it just me or is being impressed by a subdivision without an attached tempo kind of weird? I mean, I can play in 128th notes with just my left foot!(*)

(*) At 10bpm.
 
Buddy Rich, great drummer... for his time... He was the original, he was the "it" man and could entertain while drumming and etc. No one saw this before and thats why he has so much respect. AND he is a legend, BUT to say he had more speed than some of the players today.... NOOOOO WAYYY. look at Derrick Roody, i think i spelled that wrong, but anyways double bass speed... THAT guy is unreal.... Look at JoJo, look at Chambers.... Buddy Rich was the originator, but the story goes on, one man started it and now drummers are taking over what he did.
I am just waiting for another ten years to come around and see the quality of drummers in the future!
 
Buddy Rich was great. Really great. I have only heard mostly solo work, though, which sucks (not his solo's, because I haven't heard him with a band), I've heard maybe 20 seconds of him with a band. I do find his solos to be pretty repetitive now though.

When people say he is a jerk, and people respond "It was because he worked with young, incompetent musicians".......Does this make it right to yell at a 7-year-old because they can't play an E chord? Just another point of view.
 
Over 30 years ago I was bought the Buddy Rich Snare Drum Rudiment Book.
Reading the thread I was wondering how many copies that book has sold, to aspiring students. It was a bible for me and I am sure for many others.
I luckily saw BR and his orchestra play a concert in Nottingham England in the 80's. He played West Side Story, and it just blew me away - something I'll never forget.
 
I agree man. Buddy truly is a legend and like you said, legends are being born today. Chambers is very impresively fast with his hands and is also a future legend. Gene Kruppa was pretty awesome too.
 
BrynnerAgassi said:
Buddy Rich, great drummer... for his time... He was the original, he was the "it" man and could entertain while drumming and etc. No one saw this before and thats why he has so much respect. AND he is a legend, BUT to say he had more speed than some of the players today.... NOOOOO WAYYY. look at Derrick Roody, i think i spelled that wrong, but anyways double bass speed... THAT guy is unreal.... Look at JoJo, look at Chambers.... Buddy Rich was the originator, but the story goes on, one man started it and now drummers are taking over what he did.
I am just waiting for another ten years to come around and see the quality of drummers in the future!

Wrong. Plain wrong assertment. Derrick Roddy faster than Buddy Rich? "Yeah", "you're right". He does use a double bass. But that's it. no chances hands-wise. Sorry! : /

As a whole, as a "magic", his (Buddy's) performances are still the most memorable ones for the ones who've had the oportunity to witness him. The bad ass thing about Buddy is that nature is only that gift-giving once in a century. There's always one, and only-one guy who happens to have gained, all at once, speed, dexterity, immense spontaneous creativity, showmanship, exceptional rthythm senses and an interesting/charismatic personality all into just one "ordinary" guy from NY city. And when you do the maths and watch (and listen to...) all Buddy's videos available through the net and have a real good sense of justice, there's no way you can deny it all.
 
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i think you're both right to some extent. there are definately players out there today, who could play buddy's solos just as well as he did, though not many.
but of course, it seems like no-one could in the day, and he started a lot of trends and made some great contributions to drumming and music as a whole.
i think the reason we love him so much is that there never was anyone quite like him before, and no-one has ever left a mark like his since.
 
ewanlaing said:
i think you're both right to some extent. there are definately players out there today, who could play buddy's solos just as well as he did, though not many.
but of course, it seems like no-one could in the day, and he started a lot of trends and made some great contributions to drumming and music as a whole.
i think the reason we love him so much is that there never was anyone quite like him before, and no-one has ever left a mark like his since.

Yes, maybe. But still there's a huge, and i mean, HUGE difference between trying for days to copy what he did and CREATE what he did the way he usually created so much amazing solos like he usually played out of nowhere. Completely spontaneously. Oh God, how there is! (a difference). And that's exactly where/when Mr. Buddy Rich becomes the best drummer this face of the world has ever known. :)

What i'm trying to say is that, before everything, he had an absolutely brilliant percussive mind. His best qualities are the way he brilliantly thinked, fast as hell (and hell.. how well!...) those spontaneous solos and had the nature-given gift of having the physical possibilies of performing them. Performing whatever would come from his absolutely insane kind of mind (and i, definitely, dig this rapid genius mind i lot. I like it a lot, and try to perform things like those for other purposes in my life).
 
Re: great buddy rich video

This one, coming out in September, should be a huge hit with BR fans. Buddy is obviously "in the zone" on this one... Can't wait to hear and see it! (The drum solo from "Channel One Suite" is already posted here on Drummerworld, but to see the entire performance will be exciting.)

http://jazzicons.com/#buddy
 
Re: great buddy rich video

I actually have that dvd with the whole Martin and Lewis tv show, bought it at Wal-mart for $5. An interesting thing happens during the solo, right after his flurry on the cymbals his beater comes off his pedal and he does the rest of the solo without a kick. You can slow it down on the dvd and see it clearly come off, he was and is the greatest drummer that ever held a pair of sticks.
 
Previously-unheard concert clips of Buddy Rich

Hi everybody,

The page I've created at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html continues to grow...

I've just gotten some materials out of storage, which enabled me to post 3 new concerts of Buddy and his band, which I know you'll enjoy.

The best one is a complete two-set concert from Columbus, Ohio, in mid 1973. It's a good quality recording made from the sound board, on a 4-channel reel-to-reel, and has some real "moments" on it, including an especially-funky version of "Paul's Tune", which first appeared on the "Different Drummer" album. (recorded by the sound man)

There's a nightclub performance from February 20th, 1974, which shows how a pro band deals with odd circumstances. There's no bass player! Check it out... filled with awesome playing by Lin Biviano, Pat LaBarbara, and the rest of Buddy's great players at the time. (recorded by me)

The third one i've added is a horrible recording, but fans would probably rather hear it than not. The band plays great... It's the technical end of the recording that's bad. It's from an appearance at the "Executive Inn", in Evansville, Indiana, from 1984. (recorded by the sound man there, at the time)

As always, these are completely free for you to download. I know you'll enjoy them.

Have fun, and happy gigging!
- Mike James
 
I'm (obviously, I suppose) a huge fan of Buddy's music. Buddy's playing,along with his "the show must go on" attitude, will be discussed forever, which is the proof of what he was. Of course, our appreciation of music is subjective, so you may disregard guys like me as being biased. But here are some undeniable facts...

What (besides double-bass drumming) are the most popular tech subjects discussed here on Drummerworld? ...the Moeller and Gladstone techniques that Buddy and others had mastered. Derrick Pope's "stick trick" and "one-handed roll", as performed by Buddy, are still hot subjects. It's ironic that Buddy was the "textbook example" of the best way to play most techniques, but that he did it NATURALLY, with very little formal study.

Buddy once did a performance at Jazz at the Philharmonic, where he came out front and played a solo on ONLY two bass drums, flooring the audience. (Buddy didn't normally use two bass drums... He just sat down and did it, amazing everyone... Then he never did it again.)

And...
Buddy's influence was a major force in the drum industry itself. Who was responsible for the first (reinforced) "dot" heads? Buddy Rich asked Remo Belli about making his bass drum head last a little longer, and they were invented. Who motivated the design of the (Rogers) "Dynasonic" snare drum? Buddy Rich asked Rogers to design a snare drum that could respond at all volume levels with clarity, and without "choking", and after they did, he proved it's attributes during his playing with Harry James and later, with his own band.

Buddy was the first drummer to play drums "upside down", when he did a gag performance on the pilot for the "I've got a secret" TV show, which then led to many rock drummers doing it in their live shows.

Buddy drove Slingerland hard when he was en endorser in the late 1960s and 1970s, proving his seriousness by playing other drums, when Slingerland made drums he wasn't happy with. Simply naming a drum as a "Buddy Rich model" wasn't enough to buy Buddy's loyalty. On the other hand, when they, in his own words, "finally made him a snare drum that was playable", he was happy to play it and speak about it. He used very simple drums and hardware, showing drum companies (and drummers) that "complex" and "heavy-duty" didn't necessarily mean "better". His thoughts on cymbals influenced Zildjian. He didn't talk a great deal about these things, but simply led by example. When Slingerland let him down, in the mid 1970s, he switched to Ludwig, and stayed with them for years.

In his final years, when he could've played anything he wanted, he returned to Slingerland "Radio King" drums, made in the late 1930s. That wasn't because he was "nostalgic"... It was because he loved the sound of the drums. After his death, drummers and manufacturers alike began to wise up, and you're now seeing "Vintage" drums in their own (high-priced) market, as well as modern manufacturers trying to emulate them. Just recently, DW has introduced a vintage series, and who was the "showroom" kit modeled after? Buddy Rich. Buddy's sidemen included generations of players and writers who then went on to become the jazz masters of our time.

We all benefit from Buddy's influence, (and, in all fairness, other great drummers too) whether we realize it or not. He certainly did a lot more than just "play fast".

For those of you who would like to hear some great live concert clips of Buddy and his bands, I'm hosting a page of previously-unheard and unpublished clips on my site, at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html (free to download for personal listening, with no "catch") Enjoy!
 
I once listend to Buddy play on the Johnny Carson show. I was in shock at how this guy could play. I have never seen anything like it .................man what a drummer!!! He is the best in his controll and chops and speed......I only wish I could of met him.
 
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