The Big Kits vs. Small Kits Debate

Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

Smaller kit requires you to use stickings and rudiments in more creative ways. If you have a million things to hit, you just hit them. If you have 2 cymbals and a floor tom, you are required to think outside the box to get more sounds out of less stuff.

I personally would just like a bigger kit, but I can appreciate what the less is more crowd is doing (as long as they TRULY are good, and aren't just using less is more as an excuse).
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the small-vs-big debate: Feeling and expressive potential of the two approaches.

I recently wrote a drum part for a performance on a 4pc with two cymbals - a ride and a china. As such, I came up with a whole bunch of ways of playing those drums and cymbals in that part - one section includes the ride played with the tip, the shoulder of the stick and crashed on the edge just as part of the shape of a single two-bar looped groove.

Now I'm revisiting playing the same piece on a 5pc with seven cymbals. If I want I can break those multiple ride sounds onto a ride and two crashes. Do I want to? I've tried both ways, and they sound very different.

The one-cymbal approach has a consistent atmosphere, and changes in dynamic feel smoother and more organic as the wash of the cymbal floats up and down with the grove - it feels more "round" and IMHO a bit more expressive. I reckon that what people tend to perceive as expression in music is more about nuance and variation than it is about big changes - so music like Naked City or Mr Bungle which flits between styles tends to feel maybe more exciting and seat-of-your-pants cool, but less expressive than a piece which retains a constant feel and mood and develops emotional peaks inside that.

The multi-cymbal approach feels a bit more soulless, but has more energy and feels like it has more "space" - it's easier to understand the part, it's more obvious to the listener, and it's easier to hear it over a band. So it makes a lot more sense if your band is loud and you need to project, while it might sound dumb and excessive in a more nuanced context.

Ultimately I think the two approaches do have different uses. The thing is, I don't know if I would have taken the time to develop the control required to actually carry off the one-cymbal approach to that part if I'd had the two crashes sitting there as well, because it took a fair bit of practice. If I hadn't known what the results would be like, would I have bothered working so hard to get three sounds when I had three cymbals sitting right there? I'm not sure.

As it stands I think I'll use both approaches in the song in different repetitions of the same section, but I do stand by the idea that the constraints make you a lot more creative and cause you to have to think up stuff that just otherwise wouldn't occur.
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

Even the guys with elaborate cymbal setups generally play on 2 or three of them most of the time anyway. Look at Weckl. Most of his cymbals are just for effects or a different color. Most of the time he's on the evolution ride, the hats and that crash/ride right in front of him.
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

Thanks for those who agree me.
But i feel so stupid at the moment. As i only am a 17 years old dutch guy, i really don't understand most of finhiggins's replies. I try too but my english level is still too low, hopefully one day i will look back at this thread and understand it =D.

Therefore i don't indicate you guys should stop debating, seems like serious arguments are involved. Once again i'm amazed in which way Nutha Jason managed to put a resemblance to painting in this one.
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

DrumProgressive said:
Ti really don't understand most of finhiggins's replies.

Haha, neither do some of us Americans!
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

DrumProgressive said:
As i only am a 17 years old dutch guy, i really don't understand most of finhiggins's replies. I try too but my english level is still too low, hopefully one day i will look back at this thread and understand it =D.


I don't believe age or mastery of the english language have anything to do with it. I'm 41 and have used the english language for the majority of those years and still have problems understanding most of finhiggins's posts.

:)
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

However you will notice that he used a large amount of words to voice his opinion as opposed to just saying "Yes" or "No"
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

I've played on both large and small kits. The large one (and yeah, I will have to take a trip back to the garage band days again) was so stupid looking that I cringe every time I pull out the picture of it. In the hands of a master drummer it might (key on the word, might) have been OK but the damn thing had toms reaching around the back of it. I had no business at all throwing that thing together but we are talking about the late 80's early 90's and some of the bands I loved just seemed to use kits that were a mile or three long.

The worst part of it was that with so many toms it was nearly impossible to use them all in a creative fill. I say this because at the time my mentality was, "use it all or it's a waste." That was dopey on my part but hey, I got over it.

Today I am huge fan of much smaller kits. A five piece is perfect for me but I must admit I still have a weakness for cymbals. But, even that is kept in check. I mean, I am not using fifteen cymbals on a five piece kit.

I guess it really just depends on the drummer, the purpose of the kit, and the "show" aspect of it. I have no opinion regarding what other drummers should consider their perfect kit, but I do get irritated when drummers who play on large kits think that those of us on smaller kits are simply not able to play on a massive set. Not able and not willing are two different things.

At the end of the day, to each his or her own. But this post is a good one.

Isaacs
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano3000
However you will notice that he used a large amount of words to voice his opinion as opposed to just saying "Yes" or "No"


Or indeed "lolz man yuh" :)

hahahaha. finn slays me often. hey man, we often don't agree about stuff but appreciate someone who can put a point across and takes the time to tease out their opinions.

i still believe that neither kit is superior or harder in any way because at the end of the day its a matter of taste and delivery. i had an art teacher that forced us to draw apair of army boots in charcoal with our left hands...it took a few goes and some experimentation but the results were surprising as it made us come up with solutions to limitations and also made us use our weakness and mistakes by hiding them in repeated textures from there on.

j
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

I'm just going to go ahead and clear this whole thing up for everybody once and for all...

KIT SIZE DOES NOT MATTER
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

Isaacs said:
I've played on both large and small kits. The large one (and yeah, I will have to take a trip back to the garage band days again) was so stupid looking that I cringe every time I pull out the picture of it.

Isaacs

HAHA! Who doesn't look back and say "what the hell..."? Actually, I played on a 5 piece Tama during my youth (school's not mine, since I never owned my own until i was 32). When I was older I bought a 5 piece Session kit, then added 2 toms, and about 7 cymbals.

There is a big difference between a big huge 14-year old's 7-piece dream kit, and a 32 year-old's 7 piece kit. Confused? Picture Steve Smith's kit in your head...classy, tight, well laid out, right? That's a pretty big kit, but it is not the power toms angled at ridiculous angles and the cymbals hanging upside down from the rack and all that silliness.
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

i think dom famularo agrees with me....heck he even used the same analogy as me, weeks after i posted it....
DW: Do you have any thoughts on the Big Kit vs. Small Kit debate?
DF: Picasso would use a black pencil to create great art. Da Vinci used a variety of colors and mixed his paint with lead to create the most vivid colors possible, and he used all of the colors that he had available to him. Who was the better artist? I can’t think small kit/large kit. Just because someone has a larger vocabulary, they have more to say? They’re a deeper person, or they have better emotions? There are levels of expression for every size of kit. If someone reaches me deeply on a small kit, and those are the tools that they need, great. My object is just to learn all of the tools. If you choose to have all of the tools, and then you choose to build a little birdhouse, and the next guy chooses to build a skyscraper, sometimes I find great beauty and sanctity in the birdhouse. There’s nothing wrong with the carpenter who built that, as opposed to the architect who built the skyscraper. If I start to analyze the size of the building and the worth that it offers, then I think I’m losing what art is about. To me, that’s spending too much time on a small part and not looking at the big picture. I was at the Louvre when I went to see the Mona Lisa, and as I saw this 500-year-old work of art I was brought to tears. I felt that Leonardo da Vinci was speaking to me from his grave. And as I stood there in tears, another gentleman walked up beside me and said, “My gosh, look at all of the cracks in this picture. Why don’t they fix it?” In life this happens, and in all art this happens. Do you see the great depths of beauty, or do you focus on the cracks? I’m too busy enjoying the beauty. That to me is where we must begin.

j
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Big kits...small kits, whatever. I'll play on a 4 piece any day of the week, in fact the next one I get will be a 4 piece. Right now I like my kits big!! I enjoy having more options for sounds, that's all. Well, and they look great too! Two 9 pieces, a 10 pc, and an 11 pc. Click the sig. linky.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

T.Underhill said:
Big kits...small kits, whatever. I'll play on a 4 piece any day of the week,

Yeah, I'd rather play on a Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute 4 piece than a Pearl Export 9 piece anyday!
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I think we all pretty much agree that size doesn't matter (though I enjoyed Womble's post greatly!), but what I will say is that the look of the kit is equally as important as sound. I know this sounds incredibly daft and superficial but it's true! Popular music is as much as about image and style as it is about the music. So for instance my 4 piece vintage kit, with just hats, ride and crash would look pretty lame in a thrash metal set up. Similarly Lars Ulrich's double-bass drum set-up will look ridiculous in my ramshackle lo-fi indie band. I guess all I'm doing is adding to the obvious point which has been mentioned already, that different drum set-ups suit different genres of music. My only twist is that this is as much about the look of the set-up (i.e. aesthetics) as it is about the sound you get from your drums.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Speaking of look, can you imagine my surprsie when I put my 7 pc DW on a pearl curved rack and everyone commented on my "new" "huge" and "pretentious" kit. It's the same kit I've had for 8 years!! Who knew that drum hardware could even BE pretentious?

I started out on a big kit and it was a mistake. Too many toms, cymbals, woodblocks, roto-toms etc. (Too much Neil Peart actually) How many hours did I waste with that crap instead of learning how to keep time?

I believe that begnners should get a 4 or 5 pc and get that going for a few years. Too many choices can overwhelm a less advanced player.

After that it's a totally individual choice. Here in NYC most of the local club gigs have a house kit that's never bigger than a 4 pc and I play our set on those as readily as I do on my own kit. I mean most of the time we're on bass snare and hh/ride anyway no?

Gear does not make the drummer.

But it IS fun!
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

FYI, the Dom Famularo conversation was with me, and the one thing that doesn't translate well in quoted words is his incredible enthusiasm. Oh, and his ever-present smile. So two things.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

aesthetically, i think small kits are better. I believe lots of tomtoms looks atrocious....

lots of cymbals is a different story...

two attched pics display large setups i hate the look of
 

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Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I like my big kit because it not very interesting to play straight fills on the toms, I like to use this small effect cymbals too. I play metal and often there're melodies over 3 or 4 bars, it's nice to have also 3 or 4 crashes to make higher and lower accent more accurate with the proper crash or whatever kind of percussion.
Interesting, but I like more metal drummers with a huge set instead of 3 cymbals and 4 piece shell set because it fits better for me in this genre. Don't know how it's in other genres, but I think it's the same in rock.
 
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