English drummer killed in attack.

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OK let's try it from this angle- do you have a complete lack of empathy for this man and the circumstances of how he died?

No. Now I'll ask you a question. Had this man never held a drumstick in his life, do you think there would be a thread about him on the Drummerworld forum?
 
No. Now I'll ask you a question. Had this man never held a drumstick in his life, do you think there would be a thread about him on the Drummerworld forum?
This topic is in the Off Topic Lounge section anyway. So your question isn't that valid to begin with. What happened is a shocking incident worth being discussed.

Imagine it was a person who wasn't a drummer... so what?
There's a lot of things that could be discussed, but why focusing on rather unimportant aspects?
 
No. Now I'll ask you a question. Had this man never held a drumstick in his life, do you think there would have been a thread about him on the Drummerworld forum?
Impossible for me to comment on what other people may or may not post.
More often than not forum members will stick with drumming related topics (even in the Off Topic lounge) but that doesn't stop people from posting on topics which have nothing to do with drumming as well.
 
No. Now I'll ask you a question. Had this man never held a drumstick in his life, do you think there would be a thread about him on the Drummerworld forum?

As the person who started the thread, I can tell you: No, I would not have started a thread here about the murder of this person has they not been a drummer. That's because this is a forum about drumming and drummers.
 
This topic is in the Off Topic Lounge section anyway. So your question isn't that valid to begin with. What happened is a shocking incident worth being discussed.

Imagine it was a person who wasn't a drummer... so what?
There's a lot of things that could be discussed, but why focusing on rather unimportant aspects?

Good points. Unfortunate this thread has become to some extent a discussion of the merits of gun control. Whether or not guns can help or hurt in any situation totally depends on the particulars of the setting and the individuals. It's mindless to debate the issue one way or the other in a hypothetical situation.

It's more relevant to look at the motives of the attackers, not the technology they employed in carrying out their assault.
 
It's more relevant to look at the motives of the attackers, not the technology they employed in carrying out their assault.

True, but crazies dont really share patterns other than using fear as a tactic and then wanting to have themselves or their causes plastered on front pages. Causes are excuses that justify their craziness to themselves.

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True, but crazies dont really share patterns other than using fear as a tactic and then wanting to have themselves or their causes plastered on front pages. Causes are excuses that justify their craziness to themselves.

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Depends on the crazies. Creating an interpretation of some religion to justify violence, for example, is common throughout history for evil people. If it's important to the crazies, it should be important to us.

Bigots and apologists for the crazies will blur the line between the crazies and the peaceful followers of a religion, lumping them all into one group. Rational people, committed to human rights and freedom of expression, aren't afraid to view violent religious fanaticism as a distinct thing that must be dealt with for what it is.
 
Depends on the crazies. Creating an interpretation of some religion to justify violence, for example, is common throughout history for evil people. If it's important to the crazies, it should be important to us.

Bigots and apologists for the crazies will blur the line between the crazies and the peaceful followers of a religion, lumping them all into one group. Rational people, committed to human rights and freedom of expression, aren't afraid to view violent religious fanaticism as a distinct thing that must be dealt with for what it is.

Yea, religion is and has always been an easy and natural weapon. Call upon people's faith, find an interpretation that makes people kill and die for their God/ their Cause and press the red button. You are right, this is an age old tactic and there's nothing remotely new about it. There's no part of the world that hasnt seen this in play at sometime or another.

My issue really is with an increasingly political media, which mutes moderate and rational voices because the crazies make much better Television, better TRPs, more advertising revenue,whatever. Perhaps in this whole Jihad-ization ( ? ) of our modern post 9 /11 lives, there aren't enough moderate voices amongst those people to start with, I dont know, Im no political expert.

I just think that a responsible media could have played an important role in bridging a greater understanding of issues in this very dangerous phase of world politics, where we sit on the brink of a war of civilizations, but it chooses to low ball it.

When you say evil people, I hope you mean a group of individuals and not race, religion or color, because the history of the world is too littered with the ethnic cleansing of so called evil people in practically every corner of the globe and has left scars that fester for many generations.

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You've missed the point, though. If you'd never heard of him, why would you care about him?

I care because of the manner in which he met his senseless death.I care because It's part of who I am.

Because of who I am,I became a police officer and had no problem with putting my life at risk,so a stranger that I never met,would live.

All first responders more or less, think like that,not just me.It's what we do,as do soldiers and sailors.

We all sign up for mostly the same reasons,and when one of us meets their demise,we show solidarity and respect for a fallen comrad in arms.

Lots of civilians feel the same way and when people are killed by some fundementalist,hatred filled humanoid:we are offended and mourn the dead as a species.The same way that other animals mourn their dead.

In every part of the globe,we as a species MUST look at this senseless murder,and collectivly say....no more.

We must all do whatever we have to do,to bring every last one of these humanoids down.I call them humanoids because they have chosen to exist outside of the morals and laws, that all good people who behave in rational and mutually respectful,have chosen to act.

Homicide for the sake of hatred and a belief system,must come to an end.We all need to be offended and highly motivated to see these acts and way of thinking, come to an end.

Steve B
 
Yea, religion is and has always been an easy and natural weapon. Call upon people's faith, find an interpretation that makes people kill and die for their God/ their Cause and press the red button. You are right, this is an age old tactic and there's nothing remotely new about it. There's no part of the world that hasnt seen this in play at sometime or another.

My issue really is with an increasingly political media, which mutes moderate and rational voices because the crazies make much better Television, better TRPs, more advertising revenue,whatever. Perhaps in this whole Jihad-ization ( ? ) of our modern post 9 /11 lives, there aren't enough moderate voices amongst those people to start with, I dont know, Im no political expert.

I just think that a responsible media could have played an important role in bridging a greater understanding of issues in this very dangerous phase of world politics, where we sit on the brink of a war of civilizations, but it chooses to low ball it.

When you say evil people, I hope you mean a group of individuals and not race, religion or color, because the history of the world is too littered with the ethnic cleansing of so called evil people in practically every corner of the globe and has left scars that fester for many generations.

...

When I say evil people, I mean people who preach and practice hatred and violence. They might unite themselves under a common symbol/book/folklore/skin color. I understand that others may unite themselves under closely rated symbols/books/folklore/skin color and not be evil. Holy cow, I have to constantly restate this.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about when I say evil people. Believe what they are saying:

RadicalIslam.jpg
 
Here's an example of what I'm talking about when I say evil people. Believe what they are saying:

RadicalIslam.jpg

Thing is, they are not evil. They believe they are fighting evil. They think we are evil. But we don't think we are.

The planet is heavily populated. People start getting in each others' way. Fights break out. Part of the fight is the one for the high moral ground to gain supporters (or at least not be hindered). It really is that simple.

What if we didn't have extremists? Is it possible not to have extremists, or for the most extreme fringes of society to be at least tolerably extreme? (say, they just blow up letterboxes instead).

Is extremism and fascism a natural tendency of humans? It appears to be like a psychological sickness that breaks out in populations every now and then - Pol Pot, Stalin, the 3rd Reich, Cultural Revolution, Taliban ... a societal illness that grows out of a despairing population.

Just goes to show how important it is to keep up good morale in the face of all these difficulties.
 
Thing is, they are not evil. They believe they are fighting evil. They think we are evil. But we don't think we are.

The planet is heavily populated. People start getting in each others' way. Fights break out. Part of the fight is the one for the high moral ground to gain supporters (or at least not be hindered). It really is that simple.

What if we didn't have extremists? Is it possible not to have extremists, or for the most extreme fringes of society to be at least tolerably extreme? (say, they just blow up letterboxes instead).

Is extremism and fascism a natural tendency of humans? It appears to be like a psychological sickness that breaks out in populations every now and then - Pol Pot, Stalin, the 3rd Reich, Cultural Revolution, Taliban ... a societal illness that grows out of a despairing population.

Just goes to show how important it is to keep up good morale in the face of all these difficulties.

People who preach evil or do evil, are evil. We become what we preach and do.

I guess some of it depends on how you define evil, while knowing that we all have evil tendencies within us. Publicly calling for the beheading of those who criticize you is definitely evil, and suggests a person may be, or is becoming, predominantly evil. I have no reservations judging others by my moral code, which values democracy, tolerance, democracy, productivity, progress and free expression. I don't want to change people or convince them of the "superiority" of my values; my values work fine enough for me and others who share them in a liberal First-World democracy, so we must resist at all costs changing them. If someone disagree with that, they need to return to whence they came because, as you say, the world is becoming crowded.

You raise a valid point: The people in this photo think I am evil. Because I support the rights of women to get an education and live without the threat of being forced into marriage at age 8, or having acid thrown in their faces, or being set afire in an honor killing. Because I think homosexuals shouldn't be stoned to death. Because I think thieves should not have their hands and feet chopped off. Because I think artists should be free to create art and music that challenges the status quo. Because I think the people should select their leaders. Because I think no one should be forced to pray to any god if they choose not to. Because I believe in basic human rights. If that makes me "evil," then m eand everyone else in a liberal first-world democracy really is "evil." Grea, are you "evil" too? If so, then these people want to behead you. Or, that's what they say and maybe they're just kidding around and don't really mean what they say.

The planet is heavily populated. I am mystified, then, why people leave a familiar community and then come to a new nation and immediately want to take it backwards 1,000 years. Such people should be gently escorted back to their native lands, where they are free to repress.
 
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some very interesting thoughts on all this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPC47qMJVg

Very interesting, Grea. Scientists have this wonderful way of zooming out to a really macro view of things that we take at face value.

There is nothing that I really disagree with in anything DMC has said, except that I think the answers lie elsewhere. To quote Russell Brand ( of all people..!!! )
'The answer is not for us to move further from one another, crouched in opposing fortresses constructed from vindictive words.
We need now to move closer to one another, to understand one another in order to fight extremism.


...
 

Wow, that's a good story and a model for positive engagement.

I sense the British media are very biased against the EDL. Yeah, their name is a bit confrontational, but I've looked over their literature and they are consistent in their opposition to violent, radical hate factions - not to any religion in general. They also have a strong LGBT faction, as LGBT are subject to beheading and death in hardline Islamic states and are suffering increasing attacks in Britain.
 
Very interesting, Grea. Scientists have this wonderful way of zooming out to a really macro view of things that we take at face value.

There is nothing that I really disagree with in anything DMC has said, except that I think the answers lie elsewhere. To quote Russell Brand ( of all people..!!! )
'The answer is not for us to move further from one another, crouched in opposing fortresses constructed from vindictive words.
We need now to move closer to one another, to understand one another in order to fight extremism.


...


That's a great quote from Bertrand. As long as everyone buys into that, great progress is possible. Indeed, that's the only way humanity has progressed.

All we have to do is hope the misguided faction comes to realize that beheading critics, silencing artists and musicians, mutilating criminals, raping little girls, forcing conversion and honor killings are highly inappropriate, and then we can all move closer together for a brighter future. Most people in liberal first-world democracies are willing to do that. But we are no more willing to give up our commitment to democracy and human rights, than the extremist faction is willing to give up its hatred of these things.
 
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