the Dualist debate...

Dualist

You do have to wonder if this pedal design was made by DW (9000 series) or Axis, would it be hailed as ingenious? Somehow i bet it would be more "accepted". Dollars to donuts some of the hatred is directed at a "no name" company, with a plastic product with a bright pink logo.
 
Re: Dualist

Fat Elvis said:
You do have to wonder if this pedal design was made by DW (9000 series) or Axis, would it be hailed as ingenious? Somehow i bet it would be more "accepted". Dollars to donuts some of the hatred is directed at a "no name" company, with a plastic product with a bright pink logo.

Man, that's an excellent observation. I think there's some amount of bias in favor of the big manufacturers.

The story of The Duallist is pretting interesting. The maker, Kevin Mackie, started this as a high school shop project 20 years ago and it's a passion he's followed his whole life. This didn't spring from a focus group, marketing survey or other corporate initative. This guy just had a vision for a better pedal and followed his heart.

The only reason the big name manufacturers don't have their own version of the Duallist is because Mackie has patented everything, so they can't rip him off. Sonor has its own version, but it's more like a Vruk. While Mackie has the exclusivity, he lacks the big-name recognition and it's unfortunate people hold that against him. The pedal is really revolutionary and will change your entire approach to playing.
 
the dualist is really a matter of principle to me.. while everyone has posted great points and counter points it just comes to principle. to me it seems like an easy way out, i prefer the self acomplishment that is acheived when you can play clean doubles with the traditional pedal using one foot. not that i am against improvment and the bettering of drumming products it come to some things seem to be more a backdoor to a problem.
 
Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

syaoran05 said:
for that thing i think the sonor pedal [i forgot what it's called] that's a single pedal with 2 beaters [and i think the 2nd beater is controlled on the back part of the pedal using your heel, at least by looking at the pic] would be better that a duallist. i think that sonor pedal is way better than the duallist in any way.


just out of curiousity, why would you say that the sonor pedal is "way better than the duallist in any way" when you havent ever played either pedal and admit that you dont fully understand how the sonar works? you've come to that conclusion by looking at pictures?

i dont want to seem hostile, but thats the kind of post we dont need. at least have some knowledge of the topic before you post.

but then again if that logic was followed this thread would only have about 30 posts in it.....
 
brokenhalo said:
isnt that system brilliant? whoever invented that needs better marketing people. drummers should be marching in the streets to get that universalized. but i bet only a handful of people even on this forum know what were talking about. also, always wanted to try out a flats kit. they just look so cool!

I had to play one of those for 3 straight months. I got realllly sick of it after a while. The only great thing was I could take it on a bus through Central America without having to have a road crew. The sound of the bass drum is okay at first, but after a while you really miss the fullness of a real bass. Also the snares suck and there is really only one good spot to tune the drums (pitch wise) Sorry.

Oh.... I don't have nor will I ever have a dualist (Just to keep on topic)
 
Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

syaoran05 said:
for that thing i think the sonor pedal [i forgot what it's called] that's a single pedal with 2 beaters [and i think the 2nd beater is controlled on the back part of the pedal using your heel, at least by looking at the pic] would be better that a duallist. i think that sonor pedal is way better than the duallist in any way.

Having played one of the Sonor pedals I'd say that I'd never buy one. It has no rest position that I could find without stomping one of the beaters into the head, which I avoid unless I'm specifically doing it for a sound. The only way to rest your foot (and therefore remove tension from your leg) was to take it off the pedal entirely and put it on the floor - or at least your heel, anyway. Not very efficient in terms of use of muscles.
 
You mean the dual beater option can't be switched off??? That's amazingly stupid, especially for such a fantastically expensive pedal. Even with The Duallist, I only play both beaters about 10 percent of the time when performing (more when practicing because it's so gosh darn FUN to belt out those 16th shuffles with one foot). The secondary beater on the Duallist can be switched on and off immediately.

Dual beater/single foot pedal designs have been around since the 1930s but they never caught on because they couldn't be transformed into a single pedal when needed. The Duallist is the first such pedal that can be instantly and conveniently converted to traditional single pedal when needed.
 
DMC, when i was playing with the duallist i never bothered to turn the double mode off. you can play single strokes in double mode by not letting the pedal board come all the way up. i'm sure that you've noticed that already. i just thought it was easier to control the upstroke than to worry about stomping on the levers while playing.
 
brokenhalo said:
DMC, when i was playing with the duallist i never bothered to turn the double mode off. you can play single strokes in double mode by not letting the pedal board come all the way up. i'm sure that you've noticed that already. i just thought it was easier to control the upstroke than to worry about stomping on the levers while playing.

Yes, Halo, that's true. You could also use the secondary beater as your primary beater if you played only north of the neutral midpoint (lifting your foot UP to make the beater contact - trippy). Maybe not too practical, but it would be a tremendous control exercise and far more advanced than anything on a traditional double pedal.

I've been practicing paradiddles and double strokes with my Duallist. It's extremely difficult, much more challenging that doing it with a double pedal. It really forces you to reassess your entire approach to the foot pedal.

If you were using the Duallist only in double mode, that's very difficult and you must have developed some chops to do it. So how come you don't play a Duallist anymore?
 
i basically demoed the duallist for a few days on musiciansfriends dime. i was looking for a new double and figured i'd give the duallist a shot cause it looked interesting. i couldnt really get into it and figured id be better off getting a traditional double pedal and learning that. so i returned the duallist and now im playing yamaha direct drives and i couldnt be happier, but i'm always on the lookout for something different.

and my chops really arent that killer. i hated the force necessary to play in double mode, but the pedal felt too slow and light in single mode. i guess it was attributable to the strap drive (thats the only one ive ever played) and the fact that i only spent a few hours tweaking it. from what i've gathered, tweaking is the key to that beast.
 
Well, Halo, I do respect your opinion. You might not be too fond of The Duallist for yourself, but you have actually tried it and you appreciate its advantages and disadvantages, so you have a basis for your opinions.

Before anyone forms a strong opinion about The Duallist one way or the other, they should try one. It is not easier than you think and it's not harder than you think. It's just totally unlike what you think and you have to play one to understand.
 
DMC, have you tried putting some velcro on the footplate/ your shoe, or taping, strapping (belt maybe?), somehow attaching your foot for a more controlled upstroke?
I was ust thinking about it, so I decided I may as well try and suggest it or help someone as I don't have one.
 
i think it makes u look worse, for exampel some uses the dualist and goes look how fasti can play and then u get some one that can play faster with just a normal double pedal

But i would never have one because i dont like the diea of having more beaters than feet
 
Chip said:
DMC, have you tried putting some velcro on the footplate/ your shoe, or taping, strapping (belt maybe?), somehow attaching your foot for a more controlled upstroke?
I was ust thinking about it, so I decided I may as well try and suggest it or help someone as I don't have one.

That's a good idea. There is that adhesive-backed sandpaper (used for stair treads) that I have stuck on my hi-hat, foot percussion and variable pitch drum pedals. I should put that or some Velcro on the Duallist pedal, because it is a little slick.
 
jarrod said:
i think it makes u look worse, for exampel some uses the dualist and goes look how fasti can play and then u get some one that can play faster with just a normal double pedal

But i would never have one because i dont like the diea of having more beaters than feet

wlele i thinkkknek that havnig too dumrstiks is stupit cuz havaving mor drumticsk thn hands is stupit. aslo sum drumer can play fster than an other drumer taht is my opinon.

seriously.... what?????
 
Being in the market for my first double bass pedal, I've read this topic with great interest. I may have to give this thing a look/listen. Cheating? Maybe. But face it, I'm not 13 and I don't move so fast. That's pretty much the reason for the double pedal in the first place. If there's something that can give me the sound I want and allow me to conserve a little energy, I'd sure consider it. I'm sorry if that means you won't respect me in the morning ... but unless you're hiring me for a band, or booking me into a gig, I'm afraid that's not my #1 priority,
:cool:
Of course, what it'll come down to is what Donn Bennett has at his big sale in 2 weeks.
 
It's good you keep an open mind, Glynes. You should give it a try and you can always send it back if you don't like it. I'd advise you to develop some skill on single-pedal to get the most out of the Duallist.

The first foot pedals came out more than 100 years ago and were made out of wood, slow, cumbersome and hard to play. Ludwig improved on that with a compact spring design. No doubt people playing the inefficient pedals back then cried cheating.

The first single-pedal dual-beaters date from the 1920s and the first double pedals date from 1983 (the DW 5002). So, which came first and who is copying who?

Double pedals are big, clumsy, hard to play, waste space and prevent full use of the hi-hat. The Duallist makes all double pedals obsolete.
 
wish they were cheaper. :) i am somewhat intrigued as well. I have a DW 5002 right now, but i play double so rarely that my skills pretty much suck. It would be nice to be able to concentrate on single footwork (which i do) and be able to use the double effortlessly on the rare occasion that i would need it.

is your only option to buy direct from dualist?
 
you can find the dualist pedals on musiciansfriend. thats where i got mine. and if you dont like it you can just return it for about $9. think of it as a rental.
 
Fat Elvis said:
wish they were cheaper. :) i am somewhat intrigued as well. I have a DW 5002 right now, but i play double so rarely that my skills pretty much suck. It would be nice to be able to concentrate on single footwork (which i do) and be able to use the double effortlessly on the rare occasion that i would need it.

is your only option to buy direct from dualist?

I bought from the manufacturer because I like the company and its story and I wanted to support them directly, but I'd say get one any way you can.

A Duallist will immediately take advantage of your hard-earned right-foot skills and open up a new dimension in playing. You will be amazed to hear what funky closed-open hi-hat patterns sound like when superimposed on two-beater patterns. That's just impossible with standard double beaters. Because The Duallist puts your right-foot skills to work, you won't have to spend hundreds of hours training you left foot to play patterns you will be lucky to use once every 10 songs. That will free your time up for developing other skills.

The Duallist works very well as a high-quality single pedal also. You will need to practice at getting used to the difference in tension, however. In dual-beater mode, you are pulling on the springs for both beaters, which takes double the effort (contrary to popular belief, The Duallist doesn't "do the work for you"). When you drop back into single-beater mode, the tension drops to half. That takes some getting used to - one of the many subtle skills you will develop on The Duallist.
 
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