Mike Portnoy

Your mistake is to project your own expectations onto others. No two drummers will start with the same strengths and weaknesses, progress at exactly the same rate, or have the same motivation to develop the same skills. It's pointless to measure the rate of development in years. Portnoy has distinctive chops which he executes in a very 'idiosynchratic' way; someone with abundant natural talent for rhythm may play for five years and gain highly developed chops, but may not be able to reproduce Portnoy parts, at least not without due attention.
AS for natural gifts, you seem to think that having to work on a skill means you never had a gift for it in the first place. The only reason we view certain players as 'naturally talented', Colaiuta, Weckl, Williams etc., is that these guys took their natural gift and worked and nutured them to their fullest. They were driven to woodshed the hardest.

I agree with part of what rolo said... being that skill is a much better word than talent .I dont recognize talent , its skill that i like to see.
Now as for portnoy.. pseudo-idiosyncratic better describes his use of chops. He has them for sure , but lets face it he idolized a drummer that wasnt that great ( you might know of him from rush) and thusly became a not so great ,boring and flashy drummer.

My comment about educating yourself in theory is still inteded for the same people i said before.
If i couldnt read music , count time , learn songs , and had no chops... Lets be real .. not many people would call me a drummer. Get serious , learn your craft.
 
Well, just wanted to point something out, Some people find it difficult to learn Mikes stuff, so even if one is gifted sometimes its hard to learn things like that. And "Naturally Talented" I think talent is an excuse for not practicing, now if you ask me Talent does not exist, I would say Skill exists. I prefer somebody telling me that I am skilled than talented, because talent would make it seem that I did not work hard enough, sometimes thats what people intend to say but for me I prefer it when people say I am skilled.

Now back to portnoy, even if one is "talented" its hard to learn his ways and try to imitate him because alot of what he does is His way of doing it, no drummer is going to imitate other drummers because every drummer I believe always try to improvise for the better so I think that even if one is an incredible drummer its hard to imitate someone that has different ways of doing things because every drummer is unique in every single way possible.

I bet I sound so confusing most of the time I don't even understand what I say,,, I hope you understand though!

I understand it all, our posts agree on nearly all points. I would disagree on your point on talent not existing. Talent is undeniable, it's just intangible. Some skills certainly can be learned with little or no pre-existing talent; with a musical instrument, however, it is talent which ensures those learned skills are put to use creatively, musically. Portnoy has a talent for assimilating rhythmic and rudimental ideas and creating his own voice with them. I would argue that someone like Vinnie Colaiuta displays huge amounts of natural talent given his ability to be musically expressive and satisfying in almost any style or genre he's called upon to play. Above all, he looks totally relaxed and masterly at the insrument. Sometimes natural talent can be identified just by feel, and learned skills alone can't acheive this.
 
No one will ever be convinced. Love him or hate him, it makes no difference. He is good, that's all that matters.

No point in going into details about peoples souls and natual or learned talent. He is my fav drummer and this thread is making him look like the latest controversy on CNN.
 
this isnt a topic so much about portnoy.. Atleast thats not what i inteded. Its about education. educate yourself and you should be able to play anything.
 
yes i can. However i wont, its not that difficult of a song. Regardless of my feelings on his playing my post was not made to tell anyone that i think portnoy is a waste or anything of the sort. Basic theory and 5 years of chops should make you more than able to playing his songs. NO SONG PERIOD SHOULD TAKE YOU MONTHS TO LEARN.

If you want to play something challenging try something that wont make you sound like a metranome. I recomend tool, meshuggah , and porcupine tree if your looking to be challenged.
Portnoy sounds like a metronome? Oh if you mean he has a very good sense of timing then I agree. Please explaine to me how Tool and meshuggah are different with odd times, you aren't backing up what you say. I can also play the songs I mentioned but it's not an easy thing to do, I can only play them because i've sold my soul to drums and practice alot more then most. The average drummer can NOT play them.
 
Portnoy sounds like a metronome? Oh if you mean he has a very good sense of timing then I agree. Please explaine to me how Tool and meshuggah are different with odd times, you aren't backing up what you say. I can also play the songs I mentioned but it's not an easy thing to do, I can only play them because i've sold my soul to drums and practice alot more then most. The average drummer can NOT play them.

Tool and meshugah are different with odd times becasue the drummers dont subdivide the odd times through ther bass drum and snare and thats why portnoy ends up sounding like a metranome. Honestly he plays odd times how i would expect anyone else to , and that boring.
Portnoy playing in 7/8 would prolly sound something like sbsbsbb with hihhat 8ths on top. Carey however allows the music to breath and plays more naturally , you wont hear the subdivisions in his playing , or atleast not the boring and stale way that portnoy does.

TO me it sounds like portnoy and the rest of that band approaches the music with subdivisions of odd meter in ther head. You lock yourself into very common patterns that way.
 
There are quite a few songs where Portnoy plays naturally like you say. Like The Great Debate, New Millenium, The solo during Metropolis part 1...there are alot of songs where he is creative with his odd timing, it's one of his best attributes.
 
There are quite a few songs where Portnoy plays naturally like you say. Like The Great Debate, New Millenium, The solo during Metropolis part 1...there are alot of songs where he is creative with his odd timing, it's one of his best attributes.

Whatever you say buddy.
Our opinon differs on what being creative means.
 
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I hope I can contribute something here...but being in a Dream Theater tribute band and having read some of these posts, I have to agree here and there with both sides. The Portnoy fans who praise Portnoy as the new God of drumming, as well as the Drummers who are just not impressed with Portnoy at all.

You might think that because I'm in a DT tribute band I'm going to say that Portnoy is the greatest Drummer out there...but that's actually not the case. I have to say that "bfdrum86" is for the most part correct. A good understanding of drum theory, with some good chops will definitely allow you to play even some of the more difficult DT stuff. Believe it or not, I learned Dance of Eternity in my car while driving, just listening to it and counting, but perfected it by practicing behind the kit. What makes this stuff so difficult is not necessarily the difficulty of what is being played, but remembering everything that needs to be played. Now having said that, I will say that there a few parts that I have found difficult to play, but not necessarily because they are technically superior. To me it's more of a brain thing, my brain is obviously wired differently than Mike’s brain, and there are things that my brain will take longer to absorb. However, whenever I’ve encountered this, it has never been anything that a few days of good practice can’t fix. It’s just a matter of getting my brain and my body used to what needs to be played. But isn’t that the case with all of us…Practice is the bottom line if you want to learn anything!

So, No! Mike is not the greatest drummer out there or that has ever lived etc… I’m sorry to disappoint all the fans who think so. But Mike IS however a great drummer and he is Dream Theater incarnate! This is why I respect him as a drummer and a musician. Without him Dream Theater wouldn’t be what it is today, and who knows, maybe the same thing can be said about Prog Rock. I heard some complaints when he was added to the Modern Drummer Hall of Fame. Some argued he wasn’t a good enough drummer and threw out names like Donati and Lang, I think this was a poor excuse…what about Charlie Watts and Ringo Starr? If someone told me Mike has better chops than Charlie and Ringo, I would have to agree. However, it’s their contribution to drumming and music in general that makes them so special and worthy of respect from all of us.

Anyway, just my 2 cents on this whole Portnoy love/hate thing!

For the curious...
http://www.myspace.com/giovannifuentes
 
I don't think critisising Portnoy about getting into the drummer's hall of fame is anything to argue about, it wasn't his choice. In my opinion i think he did deserve it(check my name), his unique style and passionnate playing has obviously been recognised, and has influenced many a drummer, otherwise there wouldnt be 875+ replys on this thread. Sure he's no Thomas Lang.. but would Dream Theater, LTE, or any of his other sideprojects be what they are today with that Austrian behind the kit? (not saying Lang's a bad player, i've seen him live, his drumming is insane, but he could never pull off a Portnoy). Drummers in the hall of fame arn't there because they can play every rudiment at 180bpm with their feet... they've influened the world of drums in some way, wouldn't you agree? Dennis Chambers, Bonham, Max Roach (rip), Buddy Rich etc. They got there for that reason. I'm sure everyone knows, just reinforcing a point :)
 
Far be it for me to light another match under this one.... but:

Mike Portnoy is clearly a brilliant musician. I believe he writes or co-writes most of DT's songs. I suspect that he is not solely talented on drums but also other instruments.

I have been a fan of DT ever since I saw the video from Images and Words, Live in Tokyo. I've seen them 4 times in concert, have bought all of their work and I just think they make a great noise!

I was chuckling when I read Vic_Rattledeth's post - I think we should start a thread on "The Dance of Eternity" and people should post their efforts in video form. I would certainly be hugely impressed with anyone who could reproduce that sort of playing, sound and technique. Not only that but one would need to make vast investments to get the sort of gear you need to even come close.

Give me ten years of 8 hours-a-day practice and I'll humbly post my video effort

All the best

Rich
 
...and maybe it's worthwhile mentioning that a lot, if not most of his drumming was recorded while he was under the influence of his alcohol addiction... I can't even drum like he does when I'm sober..! (Maybe I can pick up some extra speed when I'm completely wired on caffeine though)
 
In my sincerest opinion Mike Portnoy is an amazing drummer, he can play some totally screwed up tome signatures and make it sound at least, palatable.....but hes reallly, in all essence, nothing more than a drumming robot....
 
I'm a newby here. I see almost as much MP bashing here as I do on the rush forum! lmao
Well, I usually defend him, even though I'm sure a lot of people are sick of him. I met him in oct 1992 when they were young and hungry, when there were only 50 people in the audience. At that time, he was a focused individual who was working very hard for DT. His influences and age are very close to mine, so maybe I can relate to him more than some people. When I was a kid I idolized neil peart and my drum teacher dogged on him saying he does stuff the same all the time. I couldn't see what he meant then but now that I'm a more "seasoned" player (old bastard) I see a lot of Neil AND Mike using certain patterns a lot. Who can really dispute how much these guys are appreciated? MP mailed me two majesty boot CD's in 1995 for free, so I don't think the guy's that bad. He was pretty damn cool to talk to, actually.
(OK, let the ripping begin!)
 
I am still watchingINCONSANTMOTION again and again. Now all i need is another hihat to be able "The Great Debate" hahahaha.

Mike Portnoy has influenced me to enter bands who attack music from so many angles. Which all bands (DT, OSI etc) have done again and again.
To be able to do this for every ablum and for the amount of years he has been doing it, is a great achievement. That is why he greats my vote in one of the best prog drums
 
Portnoy is one of my greatest influences (my playing style changed completely thanks to him and now I play with the same kind of thinking which I find is bad 'cause I want to create something new, but anyway), even though he is creative and "out of the box" he sometimes gets very repetitive and does the same old fills or grooves which he has used so many times before.
But I still find him one of the greatest drummers ever.
 
I just got a copy of Mike's Ten Degree's of Turbulent Drumming.

Never really listened to DT that much, but after watching the video, I think maybe I will pay a little more attention. Some serious memory work going on (plus some incredible chops of course).
 
when you listen too much to any drummer, you start to sound a little like him, but you can tell from miles and miles away if a drummer's a fan a portnoy.

This made me laugh loads because it's so true. I'm guilty of it though, i use some of his fills quite often. i just cant stand the over use of the ssbbssssbb ssbb ttbb ttbb kind of fills. They're cool in a climax but alot of drummers tend to over use them.
 
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