Make it hard for their customers, the customers will avoid the stores.

I don't know about any of you guys but I've been drumming for about 40 years and I don't know everything about every percussion product that exist!
If I have a question I come here and I ask in a thread or I PM someone that I think will know.

I started lessons 45 years ago, have been playing professionally for over 35 years, and I don't know it all, either.

That's why I occasionally rely on somebody behind the counter of store with a relative handful of items and brands to at least know what they are! It's not right that I know more about the items being sold than the person selling them.

Then again, maybe I should just go work for Guitar Center and show everyone how it's supposed to be done. Maybe when I'm finished with drumming as a career, I'll give it a shot.

Bermuda
 
Most of the percussion dept. staff in these chain stores is geared toward knowing how to assist the beginner and the parents of beginners.
I notice that they seem to have that down pretty good.

Percussion sales are not the pinnacle of their business like Guitars/Amps are.
That's where the real money is for them.
That is what they concentrate on the most.
I bet that pedal sales to guitarist alone top the sales of the whole drum depart.

Last week when I was in Sam Ash I noticed a real nice DW kit. I was going to sample it until I noticed that someone had dented every head multiple times.
I had been in the store a few weeks earlier and the kit wasn't in the store.
The damage was done within two weeks.
The kit was right near the stores front desk where there is always someone sitting.
I can't imagine how they sat there while someone pummeled those drums that hard.
 
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... seriously if the place was on fire, i'd go get marshmellows.....

This has to have been one of the best things I've ever seen on the forum.

Sorry for pretty much omitting the rest of your post though.

Since I should write something on topic...

I haven't been in too many GC's, but the ones I have been to have been pretty mis/uninformed, which shows the lack of personal education for the salesperson. That's a disappointment, because how can they be professionals if they don't even know that Paiste still makes RUDEs?
 
It's a similar scene here in Oz. Once we had Drum City, Billy Hyde and Allens. Then there were two when BH took over DC. This year Allens took over Hydes.

I've found the sales staff well-meaning but the number of really clued-up people is low. They are generally there to sell, not to help you find the best thing for your needs. Not too many are passionate about understanding your needs and helping you get exactly the right thing by pointing out things you don't know.

The conversations tend to go like this:

"Ooh, this looks good"

"Yes it's very good"

"What about this?"

"Yes, that's good too".

I guess the staff aren't paid enough to be passionate about what they're doing and working to improve their knowledge and understanding of the gear beyond the basics.

I think this reflects the way the rest of society. It's harder and harder to find a guru in any field. Devilishly hard to find a doctor who can really dig deep enough to grasp people's holistic situations either. Hardly anyone has the time.
 
Most of the percussion dept. staff in these chain stores is geared toward knowing how to assist the beginner and the parents of beginners.
I notice that they seem to have that down pretty good.

That's fine, but at the same time GC wonders why the pros aren't shopping there!

We all know the answers to help bring in more paying customers, but it requires some expenditures. It means hiring experienced salespeople (more money,) or at least giving proper training to those who are new. It means bringing in product that will bring in pros; better head selection, better cymbal selection, better bag/case selection, more parts. It means bringing in those things that we go to the other store for.

With more experienced people behind the counter, drummers will want to spend more time there. I'm certainly guilty of wandering into my favorite drum shops to say hi to the people I know there, and in poking around, often find something I need or want. There was a time (20 years ago) when Guitar Center used to be an actual 'hang', and I'd go in just to visit and occasionally buy something I wasn't even looking for. Compare that to now, where if I go in with a specific need like hoops, wires and rods for a used snare I just got from ebay, more often than not, they don't have what I need. More often than not, I can't even get 16 of the same rods!

So, I suppose I can understand if corporate doesn't want to create an atmosphere where people are just hanging around, but they're also failed to create a place where somebody can get what they need, even half the time. Seriously, I've been in the local GC - and it's a big one - maybe 10 times the first half of the year, and have made only one purchase. Ironically, it wasn't even for me... it was an instruction book for my nephew.

Bermuda
 
I guess the staff aren't paid enough to be passionate about what they're doing and working to improve their knowledge and understanding of the gear beyond the basics.

Passion and dedication are important, but they can't be bought. Paying someone more money doesn't make them a better employee or suddenly instill interest on their part.

The trick is to hire people in the first place who are experienced and have demonstrated a passion, and go ahead and pay them that extra money.

But employers don't see it that way.

Really, I'd love to work in a store and turn it on its ear by delivering passion, service, and product and drumming knowledge. I had considered opening a shop about 6 years ago, but couldn't find the right location at the right price. In hindsight, with the bad economy, I'm glad I didn't.

Bermuda
 
I feel your pain also bermuda,
Those days are gone!
I pretty much buy everything on the net now also.
I only go to the store to buy heads, sticks, mic cords, and things that I know that they stock.
Its better and easier to shop the net anyway.
I Google it, I find it, I buy it. Three days later I have it.
If I have a question I call the eStore and I ask someone who knows.

There is no way that a store could stock a full line of Agop cymbals being that only 1 in 1000 people that shop for cymbals will buy one.
I shopped every music store in Connecticut over about a one year period and I saw 4 Agop cymbals.
I bought 1 of them. It was used.

There are thousands of pieces of drum hardware on Musicians Friend.
No store could stock all of that.
Most of it is drop shipped when it is ordered.
 
I started lessons 45 years ago, have been playing professionally for over 35 years, and I don't know it all, either.

That's why I occasionally rely on somebody behind the counter of store with a relative handful of items and brands to at least know what they are! It's not right that I know more about the items being sold than the person selling them.

Then again, maybe I should just go work for Guitar Center and show everyone how it's supposed to be done. Maybe when I'm finished with drumming as a career, I'll give it a shot.

Bermuda

I hear it'll be an extra $900 in your pocket a month! Kids make more money flipping burgers at the In-N-Out.

And not to make this a political discussion, this situation about paying for people isn't going to get any better any time soon. Companies are worried about hiring people because they don't know how much they'll be paying out in the next year. Tax cuts look to be eliminated, and then there's that health care debacle the government is making everybody pay for to insure those that don't have insurance. You want to talk about how screwed up it is from the top - down.....don't get me started!

If I was a potential employer of labor, why would I hire anybody if I don't know I can actually afford to have them and keep them? If mostly all the employers are thinking this way, no wonder the economy stays flat. Nobody makes money, nobody buys anything, products don't get sold, you get the idea.

OK, I'm fine now. I'm thinking of my vacation to Maui soon.
 
There is no way that a store could stock a full line of Agop cymbals being that only 1 in 1000 people that shop for cymbals will buy one... There are thousands of pieces of drum hardware on Musicians Friend.
No store could stock all of that.

Obviously a single store can't keep everything on hand, but I'm talking about a major chain store not having basic parts. Not having more than a handful of Zildjians or Sabians on hand. Not having a complete set of heads for a kit.

I'm not interested in them ordering something for me, I can do that without leaving the house. I go to GC looking for something I need right now, not in 3 or 4 days, and I go there only because they're close by. But my faith diminishes every time I go in and walk pout with nothing, which is most of the time.

Maybe it's my fault for expecting to go to a drum department to find what I need. Perhaps I need to anticipate every need by several days, and buy online. I'll have to work on my psychic abilities.

Bermuda
 
And not to make this a political discussion, this situation about paying for people isn't going to get any better any time soon.

I know it's a problem now, but why didn't they act accordingly 5 or 10 or 15 years ago?

Bermuda
 
Bermuda, I have had this debate with the manager of the local George's Music Store numerous times...I'd love to be able to go in there and get a head I need or even to purchase a decent cymbal now and then but they only stock what I would consider beginner drum items, etc. I have asked the manager why they don't carry anything an experienced drummer would want and his reply is always, "they don't come in here", MY response is always "because we know you don't carry anything we want"...

I'm only 30 minutes outside of Philadelphia but to find a real drum shop I have to drive at least an hour and 1/2 to Harrisburg to go to Dale's Drum Shop, probably more drum items in that one store than the other stores in my area combined...

Don't know what the answer is...
 
And thanks to online competition, the small shops began offering really great prices (which they weren't always doing until recently,) so the idea that their prices are high is old school.
Bermuda

I really want to believe this is true.

I used to frequent a shop in Seattle that had great prices and excellent customer service.

Unfotunately, I've since moved and haven't found any place like that. I have a local drum shop here that has decent prices but I wouldn't go to them for any drum-related info; they just don't seem to be that educated.

I started a thread a while back about local shops having obscenely high prices. I just returned from a short trip to Northern California where I found the same thing. I found a K crash cymbal that I've wanted for a long time but the $495 price tag was a bit steep. They also prominently featured your standard LP Black Beauty cowbells on a rack for $77. I just walked out after that. I realize small shops need to cover expenses but that is ridiculous.
 
Well, if history serves my memory, acting accordingly should've started say, back in 1976-77, when Carter became President. Alot of things began to go wrong starting then!

Yep, Carter's presidency had a huge impact on the decline of service industries outside of the US. :)

It's an unfortunate fact that this issue is not just limited to the retail sale of drums.....it's far more widespread than that.....and far more widespread than just the US. I'm not convinced the problem can be pin pointed back to one single presidential administration either. Corporates have far more control over this than any government could ever hope to.
 
Yep, Carter's presidency had a huge impact on the decline of service industries outside of the US. :)

It's an unfortunate fact that this issue is not just limited to the retail sale of drums.....it's far more widespread than that.....and far more widespread than just the US. I'm not convinced the problem can be pin pointed back to one single presidential administration either. Corporates have far more control over this than any government could ever hope to.

True. And again, I apologize for the semi-political tilt. But the Carter presidency gave rise to the Reagan era because things needed fixin', and for the most part, he did. Isn't it funny how America is on the verge of doing the same thing again?

OK. End of political tilt. Resume your normal discussion. That'll be my last political posting. Carry on.
 
And again, I apologize for the semi-political tilt........

........ OK. End of political tilt. Resume your normal discussion. That'll be my last political posting. Carry on.

Not at all, Bo. Speak freely my friend.......at least you can when talking to me (well at least within the confines of Bernhards wishes).

I just couldn't resist a friendly little jab at that one though. :)
 
Yep, Carter's presidency had a huge impact on the decline of service industries outside of the US. :)

It's an unfortunate fact that this issue is not just limited to the retail sale of drums.....it's far more widespread than that.....and far more widespread than just the US. I'm not convinced the problem can be pin pointed back to one single presidential administration either. Corporates have far more control over this than any government could ever hope to.

I agree. This has doodly squat to do with government and everything to do with corporations cost cutting like crazy because ...

1) as each larger company gobbles up a smaller one it brings management another step further away from its customers and 2)

I pretty much buy everything on the net now also. I only go to the store to buy heads, sticks, mic cords, and things that I know that they stock.

The trouble with online shopping for me is you lose the experience of going into a drum shop and having that Adventures in Fantasyland feeling. Oh well, times change and it was good while it lasted ...
 
The trouble with online shopping for me is you lose the experience of going into a drum shop and having that Adventures in Fantasyland feeling. Oh well, times change and it was good while it lasted ...
OK, Let's talk about the fantasyland feeling.

I get in my truck.

I fight traffic for 30 to 60 mins

I park, lock, hide all of my things like my iPod, radio faceplate, etc.

I walk into the music store

The drum department is full of kids hitting everything in sight and making so much noise that I couldn't hear a cymbal if I wanted to

None of the drums are tuned

It never fails, No matter what I want to look at there will be someone standing there looking at the same thing

I buy $20 worth of heads, sticks, or another cheap thing.

I have to show my receipt to the doorman to leave the store

I go home

I spend $10 on fuel round trip


OK, Now the net experience

I make a vodka on ice

I open my laptop

I look

I click buy

I use PayPal

I get my receipt and tracking # via email

I wait four days

I even gave my UPS driver the code to my garage door so he puts the boxes inside for me.

I come home from work and its Christmas!

If there is a problem, I send it back without leaving home.
 
Except for some unexpected political discussion, I think everything else is just a rehashing what was initially said in the first few posts.

I would like to see some kind of a solution to the problem other than avoidance, or just going on the web. It is unfortunate that once in a while the musician needs to touch and hear the instrument or equipment they are about to purchase, so the stores have a function of sorts.

If the major manufactures understood this problem they may want to sponsor their own outlet stores. Like apple do their stores. But, then the customer would have to visit several stores to compare products between different manufactures. The outlet stores could show off the companies products. Perhaps many companies would do several products at their own outlet stores.

Evolving Machine
 
When I was entering the intermediate to high end drum level during the 1970s I would go to my local Ma and Pa drum shop and they rarely stocked a full spectrum of better gear.
Everything had to be ordered from a catalog.
Back then it took longer to get something than it does today once it was ordered.
It is actually easier to get gear today.
We have access to anything that is made instantly.
 
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