Breaking Cymbals

TNA

Senior Member
I have been playing for about 5 years and have broken 2 cymbals, a medium PST5 crash, and a thin PST5 crash. I had the cymbals for about 2 years each before cracking and I thought that was normal. When I went to buy a new crash the guy at the store told me they shouldn't be breaking that often, and how he has had cymbals for 20 years. I've also read on here about people who have never cracked a cymbal. I think I have good technique, and I'm not one to really smash my cymbals when I hit. So is it natural for cymbals to break? Do I actually have bad technique I'm not aware of? Or are some people just lucky for having cymbals last 20 years?
 
well ive been playing for about 5 years and discovered alst week i had cracked both my crashes forst cymbals ive ever broken and they are far older than 5 years so i must have a fairly decnet technique. could be bad luck but tbh i doubt tht
 
No, it's not normal for cymbals to break, especially only after two years. In my almost 50 years behind kits I've never broken a cymbal, in fact I'm still using some of my dad's Zildjian cymbals he bought in the late 40's. Although technique plays a very important part in the longevity of cymbals, it's also how they are mounted and tilted on their stands.

Dennis
 
it depends on how hard you hit and the cymbal as well. i had a zildjian 16" fast crash, and i've broken it 3 times. i have insurance so it doesn't really matter, but yea. i've broken an a custom 18" crash as well. and these were all under a year old. i had bad technique starting out, but now i've improved it and plus i just hit hard which is why it happens.
 
So if it's bad technique, then how should I be hitting cymbals? As far as I know from watching other drummers I have "good" technique.
No, it's not normal for cymbals to break, especially only after two years. In my almost 50 years behind kits I've never broken a cymbal, in fact I'm still using some of my dad's Zildjian cymbals he bought in the late 40's. Although technique plays a very important part in the longevity of cymbals, it's also how they are mounted and tilted on their stands.
Could it be the quality of cymbals, PST5's are near the bottom end of the Paiste line. And I'm pretty sure they are mounted correctly, just sleeves and felts, not too tight.
 
Well, Gavin Harrison said he breaks at least a couple of cymbals per tour when asked about this subject. And he doesn't really have bad technique...he plays quite hard live though, so maybe that's the reason. I've broken entry level cymbals when I started, but I used to only have one crash, not a single broken cymbal since I have two crashes and several splashes.


Fox.
 
Im from the school that says if you are breaking pies, you are doing something wrong.
I am one of those that has never broken a cymbal in almost 40 years. I mount my cymbals almost flat. I strike with glancing blows. I don't use top felts. I play K Custom Hybrid crashes now. I have played many different crashes over the many years.
 
I kinda disagree with the diehard non-cymbal breakers here. I too own old cymbals that have never cracked. I've only ever cracked two cymbals in my lifetime of drumming. One of them was a Sabian HHX Evolution. They are pretty thin and saw a lot of live play.

So 2 out of over a dozen I've owned doesn't really point out bad technique. Metal isn't indestructible. Anything under stress can break, buildings, car parts, bridges, etc...cymbals included.
 
This topic keeps coming up and is always lively!

To my mind, there is no "normal" or "should/shouldn't" regarding this. It just depends on how you like to play. If you like playing like Dave Grohl, expect to replace cymbals and plan for it.

If you're a lighter player, you may never break a cymbal and that's fine; good for you. Most cymbals are designed for sound and playability and have a breaking point. Other cymbals are marketed for heavy hitters, but usually don't play or sound all that great. In the end, all of them have a breaking point.

Gavin Harrison? I'm not surprised at all. Thomas Pridgen I'll bet money he goes through them, and he's a fantastic drummer. Elvin Jones broke cymbals, too, and I doubt anyone's going to launch into a lecture about his poor technique. I believe Bermuda breaks his share while out on tour, as well.

I'll come clean here: I've been playing for 30 years and have probably broken a couple dozen cymbals. The list includes two top hi hats, three rides (two of them Paiste Signatures, and a stubbornly uncrashable Zildjian Medium Ride), and all the rest were crashes - mostly thin or medium thins.

I don't care what any drummer on here, or anywhere else, says about my technique on this. You can dig in your heels all you want and say that cymbals aren't designed to break and only bad technique will cause breakage. Cymbals are designed to be played - that's it. However you like to play and whatever fallout comes from that... it is what it is. I doubt that Zildjian, Sabian, or Paiste minds at all everytime I come looking to buy a new cymbal!

BTW: I'm not interested in vintage cymbals precisely because I'll probably break them eventually and that seems like a shame.
 
I've not broken one cymbal yet in my 3,5 years of drumming (that's really short compared to all your 20+ years of drumming), but I've noticed my 10" Stagg splash is starting to crack on the edge. I've paid €15,- for it, second hand, so that's not to big of a problem. I think mounting the cymbals has everything to do with how fast they break though.
 
When I used to gig 2-3 times a week, I used to crack top hihats and crashes about 2-3 per year. Now that I don't gig, I have not cracked a single cymbal yet.
 
When I used to gig 2-3 times a week, I used to crack top hihats and crashes about 2-3 per year. Now that I don't gig, I have not cracked a single cymbal yet.
That's about the rate they go for me, too. I guess I should say that I've never broken one just practicing at home, and it's been almost two years since my last one cracked but the band I'm playing with now isn't quite as bombastic as most of the bands before it.

So I guess I should add, too, that beyond technique and mounting and all that, the musical situation one plays in largely dictates how the playing needs to be. A jazz drummers highly refined silky smooth touch will not be appreciated in a surly punk rock band where high-explosive energy levels are the only thing that matters. Patrons of rock clubs want to see the drummer sweat, if not full-on puke, after cracking a pie or two.
 
Im from the school that says if you are breaking pies, you are doing something wrong.
I am one of those that has never broken a cymbal in almost 40 years. I mount my cymbals almost flat. I strike with glancing blows. I don't use top felts. I play K Custom Hybrid crashes now. I have played many different crashes over the many years.

Hi Bobdadruma,
Can I borrow some of your experience? I haven't broken a cymbal yet but there is time. Is there a reason why you don't use top felts? I mount my cymbals at around 15deg towards me. Is that too much, too little?

Ta very much
 
If I may...
Is there a reason why you don't use top felts?
I don't use any top felts, either. I see that most people do (pros and non-pros alike) and have never understood it. What does a top felt protect against? Wingnuts are too high up to be of concern. If anything, top felts inhibit the motion of the cymbal, which might be desirable for a ride or a china, but crashes?
 
Hi Bobdadruma,
Can I borrow some of your experience? I haven't broken a cymbal yet but there is time. Is there a reason why you don't use top felts? I mount my cymbals at around 15deg towards me. Is that too much, too little?

Ta very much
15 degrees isn't that much. 10 to 15 degrees, That is about where I place mine. I stopped using top felts many years ago. I like to let the cymbal rock and swing as I hit it. If I am going to hit it several times in succession, I simply have learned to time my strikes with the swing of the pie. I will interrupt the swing if I have to and keep the cymbal down for a while as I hit it also. I feel that cymbals sound better this way. I like to watch them rock freely after I hit them.
A top felt only chokes them in my opinion. The cymbal will slant a few degrees on its own without a top felt, so why use one.
Top felts were just another thing for me to drop on the floor and search for when I was setting up and breaking down my kit! LOL
 
So I guess I should add, too, that beyond technique and mounting and all that, the musical situation one plays in largely dictates how the playing needs to be. A jazz drummers highly refined silky smooth touch will not be appreciated in a surly punk rock band where high-explosive energy levels are the only thing that matters. Patrons of rock clubs want to see the drummer sweat, if not full-on puke, after cracking a pie or two.

I could not agree more. And when caught up in a live situation, all we as drummers are thinking about is cutting through the music. We don't even think about how abusive we are with our pies. In many rock situations, that means having to project through walls of amplified guitars and keyboards. Whereas, in acoustic jazz, crashing with your stick tips can often suffice. It all depends on what type of music you are playing.

As to those wanting to know proper cymbal mounting and angle procedures, check this out:

http://www.paiste.com/e/support_usagecare.php?menuid=318
 
Thanks Strangelove, Good link.
Glancing blows, That's the secret! Make the pies spin when you play them. Mine spin like tops as I play. They slowly rotate round and round.
Do you hard hitters know that a cymbal will only produce a certain amount of sound before it distorts and begins to lose volume?
There is a point where a cymbal cannot vibrate any more. Every cymbal has this characteristic. It has a limit to its frequency. It is based on the make up and design of the cymbal.
 
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Glancing blows are a great way to go if you can pull it off. The problem is being consistent with it. It's all too easy to stray from the ideal striking angle if there are quick or busy crash cymbal parts, or if the cymbals are already swinging when hit.

The other thing is aesthetics. I saw Dave Weckl a few weeks back playing with Mike Stern. There were a couple big rock endings where Dave was going for the big wash on his crashes and then - bang! into that last ending smackola. Only, that's not what it looked like. It looked like Dave was a little limp in the wrist and holding too much back when coming down on that final hit. He looked like he was worried about his delicate HHXs. Nothing "rock" about that. I remember thinking, "Come on Dave, you get 'em for free, give us a pile-driving rock ending!"
 
This topic keeps coming up and is always lively!

To my mind, there is no "normal" or "should/shouldn't" regarding this. It just depends on how you like to play. If you like playing like Dave Grohl, expect to replace cymbals and plan for it.

If you're a lighter player, you may never break a cymbal and that's fine; good for you. Most cymbals are designed for sound and playability and have a breaking point. Other cymbals are marketed for heavy hitters, but usually don't play or sound all that great. In the end, all of them have a breaking point.

Gavin Harrison? I'm not surprised at all. Thomas Pridgen I'll bet money he goes through them, and he's a fantastic drummer. Elvin Jones broke cymbals, too, and I doubt anyone's going to launch into a lecture about his poor technique. I believe Bermuda breaks his share while out on tour, as well.

I'll come clean here: I've been playing for 30 years and have probably broken a couple dozen cymbals. The list includes two top hi hats, three rides (two of them Paiste Signatures, and a stubbornly uncrashable Zildjian Medium Ride), and all the rest were crashes - mostly thin or medium thins.

I don't care what any drummer on here, or anywhere else, says about my technique on this. You can dig in your heels all you want and say that cymbals aren't designed to break and only bad technique will cause breakage. Cymbals are designed to be played - that's it. However you like to play and whatever fallout comes from that... it is what it is. I doubt that Zildjian, Sabian, or Paiste minds at all everytime I come looking to buy a new cymbal!

BTW: I'm not interested in vintage cymbals precisely because I'll probably break them eventually and that seems like a shame.

Well said!!!

In his latest book, Neil Peart discusses going though numerous cymbals on tour, and he's studied with the best. But not ever one does a 3 hour show with the intensity Rush does every night.

If you play jazz or light rock, or don't gig much no you may never break a cymbal. If you play hard rock or metal, and/or tour often, well, then it might be a different story even with good technique.

Simply saying technique is not the whole story. Volume of the band, the musical situation, intensity of gig and frequency of playing are all going to be part of the equation.




I
 
Simply saying technique is not the whole story. Volume of the band, the musical situation, intensity of gig and frequency of playing are all going to be part of the equation.

Thank you!

I also suspect vibration patterns being upset has alot to do with cracks. Not letting a cymbal "vibrate out" before crashing it again probably doesn't help matters, but hey, sometimes accents have to go where accents have to go. Again, it's the music, not the technique, although having a Peart or Bozzio cymbal setup probably would help that situation.
 
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