I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

TColumbia37

Silver Member
I bought a Pork Pie snare about two weeks ago and the stock heads sounded pretty good, but the batter head is already completely shot. Maybe I'm just ranting, but if we're already spending this much money on their gear, can't they include decent heads? Is it really THAT much more expensive for them?

This goes for most major companies. Some, however, include good heads. I believe Pork Pie includes the foreign made Remos, but with a Pork Pie stamp
 
Think of all the different heads that people choose. The odds of a drum maker choosing exactly the head a given drummer wants is pretty slim, so the heads will likely be changed anyway. Why would they waste money on a high-end head when it still probably isn't what the buyer wants?

That would be my guess.
 
Two reasons, save cost, but also heads are a drummer's preference.
In other words, say i'm an Emperor , or Centre Dot, kinda guy and my new snare comes with an Amb? I then prefer to change it anyway.

they are not all doing it. I've gotten a new Gretsch snare and it came with a 'stock' Evans G1 head. Now, that Wasn't too bad, but of course now I've switched it out anyway....as i like an Amb.
 
They could ship out drumkits with only a 10mil single ply head for each drum, and 3mil snare reso head since that's what most people use I guess. Or just sell shell packs...

The biggest problem I've found with the stock heads is that they have a more narrow tuning range than quality drum heads. Worked fine on my 8" and 10", they sounded great but the larger drums were harder to tune.
 
Think of all the different heads that people choose. The odds of a drum maker choosing exactly the head a given drummer wants is pretty slim, so the heads will likely be changed anyway. Why would they waste money on a high-end head when it still probably isn't what the buyer wants?

That would be my guess.

That's the argument I imagine they'd put forward but then you'd think they would choose the best heads to match the kit and the buyer could trust it.

My saturns came with remo emperors/ambassadors and ps3/ps3 on the kick, sounds great.

I remember EricB posted a video of back to back recordings of the different heads and I noticed that the different heads didn't really sound THAT different in the scheme of things, as long as they weren't those cheaper china remos.
 
That's the argument I imagine they'd put forward but then you'd think they would choose the best heads to match the kit and the buyer could trust it.

My saturns came with remo emperors/ambassadors and ps3/ps3 on the kick, sounds great.

I remember EricB posted a video of back to back recordings of the different heads and I noticed that the different heads didn't really sound THAT different in the scheme of things, as long as they weren't those cheaper china remos.

I don't think there are "best heads to match a kit," especially judging by some of the discussions and debates here.

FWIW, I don't really have a problem with stock heads, per se. The stock heads on my Tama Silverstars sound fine, though I'm sure they aren't high end. And the Pork Pie-branded Remo that came on my Big Black worked just fine.
 
My problem is that I believe the quality of the components that a company uses should reflect the company's overall quality of work. I feel it speaks poorly about them to cheap out on such an important part of a drum's sound. I know that if l were building and selling drums, I would always include quality heads. Whether or not the included heads were what some people would prefer, I could rest easily knowing that they are good quality and will last longer than the cheaper alternatives. And, well, less people would feel the need to switch the heads out as soon as they get the drum(s), because they would get a better idea of the drum's capabilities with the nicer heads than they would otherwise. Take into consideration the plethora of people who use the stock heads for quite some time. They're not experiencing as good of tone as they could be had the drum come with better quality heads. I work in the quality department of the company by which I am employed, and the problems I see the most, hands down, come from cheaping out on parts that they don't think are necessarily very important.

People keep saying that the foreign Remos are the same as the domestics. If that were really the case, Remo would be making all of their heads over there to save money. My kit came with foreign pinstripes over ambassadors. I replaced them with domestics of the same heads, and they immediately sounded much better.
 
My problem is that I believe the quality of the components that a company uses should reflect the company's overall quality of work. I feel it speaks poorly about them to cheap out on such an important part of a drum's sound. I know that if l were building and selling drums, I would always include quality heads.

US-made drums normally come with US-made Evans, Remo or Aquarian heads. US companies that import some of their drums usually outfit them with Asian-made heads that help keep the price lower. If you were building and selling US drums, you'd do it your way. If you had a line of imports, you'd look at the bottom line and include the cheaper heads.

People keep saying that the foreign Remos are the same as the domestics.

They're not, nor are the Asian "Evans" or "Ludwig" heads comparable to the US versions. It's a given that the non-US heads normally need quick replacement. That shouldn't be held against the particular drum or head companies, it's strictly business.

Suppose you're an Evans guy, and a drum arrives with Remo heads, and you've paid a premium for those heads. But you're only going to replace them with your faves anyway, so why not keep the price down at the start? The companies are smart... they already know this. If there's any reflection on the company, it's that they are doing their best to keep costs down while offering options (yes, so they can sell more product.) I'm perfectly happy with cheap heads, it means I can go straight to my preferred heads without having to spend much on the ones I don't like.

Bermuda
 
What would be interesting is if companies shipped drums without heads, and deducted that from the cost of the set. Of course, if you're buying from a brick & mortar store, that would be difficult, but for the majority of internet purchases made, they should ship without heads and at a $150 discount since you're going to spend that on the heads you want anyway.
 
Suppose you're an Evans guy, and a drum arrives with Remo heads, and you've paid a premium for those heads. But you're only going to replace them with your faves anyway, so why not keep the price down at the start?

Bermuda

I think a fussy person would do that. I would just play the heads it came with until they were shot.
 
It's called value engineering. They'll squeeze out every nickel they can get away with if it doesn't take away from the bottom line and only helps to increase it.

I was fine with the Remo heads when I got my Pork Pie BOB snare drum. I still use the reso head. Why not? Awhile back when I got a new Ddrum snare, that drum's stock head was a different story. Maybe if I would have changed out that stock head I could have had a better appreciation for that drum. Maybe I just like metal snare drums.(?)

I am really reluctant to change out the stock heads on this GP set that I use with my garage band. They actually sound really good still. Of course it doesn't hurt that the guy who owns the kit is a drum tech, amongst other titles, who knows how to tune - and play good for that matter. Somebody left the kit with him for safe keeping, but I do most of the playing on that kit, so I added a few personal touches of my own to the kit.
 
Suppose you're an Evans guy, and a drum arrives with Remo heads, and you've paid a premium for those heads. But you're only going to replace them with your faves anyway, so why not keep the price down at the start? The companies are smart... they already know this. If there's any reflection on the company, it's that they are doing their best to keep costs down while offering options (yes, so they can sell more product.) I'm perfectly happy with cheap heads, it means I can go straight to my preferred heads without having to spend much on the ones I don't like.

Bermuda

Very well put, Bermuda!
 
But what if you endorse the non-supplied company & have a gig the next day? I don't think that's fussy, nor a situation where someone just prefers a different manufacturer.

If you endorse the company, you probably get a great deal on their products, so it wouldn't be as big of a deal to replace the stock heads as it would be to your average drummer.

Those of us who are on a tight budget can't always afford to replace the stock heads, especially after we just spent so much on the drum(s). I don't really have the money to buy a new snare head, on account of some medical and dental bills that recently arose, but I'm going to have to scrape together some cash and buy one anyway, because I have a gig tonight. Had they provided better heads, I wouldn't have to replace the head so soon. Even had they charged a little extra for the price of the drum, that would have been fine. I would have been willing to pay a bit more for the drum if it had come with decent heads. I don't really think I should HAVE to pay more for something that, to me, should be such a given, but I'm willing to if that's how it has to be.

To me, it's kind of like buying a car. You know that, eventually, you'll have to replace the brake pads, but you also know that the pads which came on the car are of decent quality, and will last quite some time before you have to worry about it. They don't sell you a car with brake pads that fall apart after a few months, because they want that vehicle to function perfectly, as soon as you get it, and function properly for some time before you have to replace any parts. Sure, you can replace all the parts you want with what you would prefer, but you don't HAVE to quickly replace parts to make sure the vehicle is still drivable.
 
I think a fussy person would do that. I would just play the heads it came with until they were shot.

You don't have to be fussy to know that some of the 'cheap' heads are worse than others, even the supposedly non-critical snare side.

I always give the heads a chance, but I'm also prepared to make a quick change if necessary. When I take my new SupraLite 5x15" on a gig, I will have either changed the heads already, or will bring fresh 15" batter & snare sides with so I can change between sets if needed. Nothing worse than the batter constantly softening/denting as you play.

Bermuda
 
You don't have to be fussy to know that some of the 'cheap' heads are worse than others, even the supposedly non-critical snare side.

I always give the heads a chance, but I'm also prepared to make a quick change if necessary. When I take my new SupraLite 5x15" on a gig, I will have either changed the heads already, or will bring fresh 15" batter & snare sides with so I can change between sets if needed. Nothing worse than the batter constantly softening/denting as you play.

Bermuda

Im still using the stock Ludwig heads that came on my Supralite. Not dented at all and breaking in nicely. Its like a coated Emperor or something. Are you being a little biased towards Evans for endorsement reasons and not giving the heads a chance??
 
Im still using the stock Ludwig heads that came on my Supralite. Not dented at all and breaking in nicely. Its like a coated Emperor or something. Are you being a little biased towards Evans for endorsement reasons and not giving the heads a chance??

I'm not biased for endorsement reasons, I do give the heads a chance, and that's how I know that there are such variances in quality and usability compared to US-made heads. I do plan to take my new drum out with its current heads, knowing that they may or may not work well for me.

But head preferrences aren't limited to US over Asian, I typically change heads on my US drums because they're just not the type of head I prefer on the drum in question. When my Ludwig Keystone toms showed up with Evans G2 Clear batters, I changed them to G12s and G1s. When my Legacies showed up with Ludwig Coated Mediums on the toms, I changed all of those as well. New Ludwig (US) snares occasionally get a new batter from the start, but now always. Also, I typically leave the Ludwig snare side on until it needs replacement.

Bermuda
 
What would be interesting is if companies shipped drums without heads, and deducted that from the cost of the set. Of course, if you're buying from a brick & mortar store, that would be difficult, but for the majority of internet purchases made, they should ship without heads and at a $150 discount since you're going to spend that on the heads you want anyway.

Great idea! Or, instead of no heads, they could install "paper" heads that would just serve the purpose of keeping the hoops in place.
 
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