Pinstripes aren't evil!

T

trkdrmr

Guest
As a few of you folks can attest, the 70's pinstripes were much deader than today's. Remo used to promise "That wet flat and funky" drum sound. The formula is different now. Today, among pre-muffled heads, pinstripes are mildly muffled compared to most.

My Aluminum kit is almost analogous to birch. it's a "balanced" sound across the spectrum with no nasty overtones. It's also tonally rounded like maple.

I have been tweaking my kit for recording. My room can be considered acoustically on the dead side, so there is not a lot to exaggerate brightness/high frequencies.

I had EC-1 clears on my deccabons. The problem was, the tone was too flat and the attack wasn't so hot. I dug out some pinstripes and viola: The "octabans" sounded really cool with a nice attack.

I already had evans resonant glass (per recommendation) on the bottom of my kit. Those do help open up a drum with a 2-ply on top.

I tried ec-2. They were nice, but a little too dull on the small toms, and I could hear too much of a plastic slap on the larger toms.

Aquarian response 2 were nice and warm, a pretty good middle ground.

G2 coated didn't sound open enough for me on the small toms, and a bit dry on the larger toms for what I was after.

Gauging the aluminum works a bit like the fiberglass octabans (no overtones) I tried pins. My drums really resonate so they can handle a wide range of heads and tunings. What the heck, $70 experiment.

The pins sounded *perfect* on the small toms. I used just a dab of moongel on the 14/16. What I have is a deep, dark and not as muffled as you'd think sound. There is nice attack, but no plastic slap. And yes, they have a wetter sound than g2 coated.

My .02 cents is that pinstripes aren't evil, especially for rock, metal or prog. Everyone's drums have their own characteristics. The pins may/may not do all drums justice. And they are not for those wanting a wide-open sound. But they work very well in some applications. And the final strength they have: tonal "neutrality." They are neither dark, nor bright. So in this case, I am getting as much tonality from my shells as from the pins.

Pinstripes aren't evil, but some applications of them might be.

I am happy with them.

YMMV
 
I ran 'em on my Vistalites almost all the time. Produced a great sound for that kinda shell.
 
Interesting post. But what a coincidence! Just 10 seconds before you posted this, I received a comment on Youtube:

nice drumming, snare and bass sound GREAT, but the toms sound very dead, they might sound great from the drivers seat, but they sound very dead from where I'm sitting.

He was talking about the pinstripes. Obviously, I didn't have them mic'ed, and I'm sure they would have sounded better if they were. However, I don't think they would be great for a live application, unless your kit is amplified.
 
this may sound wierd.... but i was using my pinstripes as my batters, with ambs on reso, but i was getting too many overtones and it was too hard to tune(couldnt find the sweet spot), then i switched them around, with PS's on the reso and ambs on the batter, OMG they sound great now! no overtones and very easy to tune!, for my floor toms i did have to buy 2 more pinstripes for the tops, beacuse the ambs didnt look right to me on them(im a perfectionist :p). But pinstripes work great as reso heads :D Just thought i'd say it :)
 
Interesting post. .........Youtube:

nice drumming, snare and bass sound GREAT, but the toms sound very dead, they might sound great from the drivers seat, but they sound very dead from where I'm sitting.
Just take all that with a "grain of salt". Where IS he sitting. At home, listenning to Utube on his computer. And your drums. You have them set up at home, right? So they probably ARE tuned to your liking, which is from the drivers seat. Pins might not be my first choice of heads for an 805 kit, but unless they're totally worn out, I bet I could get those babies to sing with 5 minutes of tuning/tweaking. My first 2 head choices would be Powerstroke 3 or Emperor heads.
 
this may sound wierd.... but i was using my pinstripes as my batters, with ambs on reso, but i was getting too many overtones and it was too hard to tune(couldnt find the sweet spot), then i switched them around, with PS's on the reso and ambs on the batter, OMG they sound great now! no overtones and very easy to tune!, for my floor toms i did have to buy 2 more pinstripes for the tops, beacuse the ambs didnt look right to me on them(im a perfectionist :p). But pinstripes work great as reso heads :D Just thought i'd say it :)

Like I say..application.

FWIW: clear emperors on deccabons are *ever so slightly* more open.

On woods like luuan and poplar (which aren't as intense on the high end as maple or birch) they could sound thuddy or too dead.

Live application? Well, again...drum dependent. I'd use them on mine, vistalite as mentioned, yamaha oak and a few others, but not everything.
 
Just take all that with a "grain of salt". Where IS he sitting. At home, listenning to Utube on his computer. And your drums. You have them set up at home, right? So they probably ARE tuned to your liking, which is from the drivers seat. Pins might not be my first choice of heads for an 805 kit, but unless they're totally worn out, I bet I could get those babies to sing with 5 minutes of tuning/tweaking. My first 2 head choices would be Powerstroke 3 or Emperor heads.

PS/3's are deader on my toms than pins!!! (So are ec2)

If I go more open for whatever need, the Aquarian response clears or emperor clears will do nicely.
 
this may sound wierd.... but i was using my pinstripes as my batters, with ambs on reso, but i was getting too many overtones and it was too hard to tune(couldnt find the sweet spot), then i switched them around, with PS's on the reso and ambs on the batter, OMG they sound great now! no overtones and very easy to tune!, for my floor toms i did have to buy 2 more pinstripes for the tops, beacuse the ambs didnt look right to me on them(im a perfectionist :p). But pinstripes work great as reso heads :D Just thought i'd say it :)

So do Performance IIs. They sound terribly dead as batters, but for resos, they work fine.
 
Interesting post. But what a coincidence! Just 10 seconds before you posted this, I received a comment on Youtube:

NO link????

I could listen to it on my recording rig, which is behringer truth monitors with a 12" sealed sub. They are exponentially better than PC speakers, especially in terms of flat response and real low end from a real sub.
 

In the 1st video, it was likely mic technique vs the drum. From the 2nd video, I am getting a round tom tone with plenty of low end. They are not that flat or dead. I can use Joey Jordinson's kit as a measuring stick for dead, and yours are not nearly that dead. Nor are they as dead as Gadd's kit.

Now, compared to the wide open/high pitched "jazzer" sound the critique might be a bit valid, but as Harry commented: I suspect crappy PC speakers from the "plaintiff." The 2nd video has better tone and sound.
 
I had pinstripes on my maple kit and no matter what I did it sounded flat, I tried coated emperors and the sound was awesome, more pronounced and round ( if that makes sense ).
My tuning abilities are so so, maybe that had something to do with it, but I was able to hit the sweet spot with the emperors.
 
I had pinstripes on my maple kit and no matter what I did it sounded flat, I tried coated emperors and the sound was awesome, more pronounced and round ( if that makes sense ).
My tuning abilities are so so, maybe that had something to do with it, but I was able to hit the sweet spot with the emperors.

"Maple kit" also has a wide variety of implications.

DW collectors have one sound vs Pearl MCX or Gretsch Catalina maple. Each will react differently, some unfavorably.

My kit sounds very close to Mike Portnoy's maple SC kit *after* it has been eq'd through recording.

The SC maple kits sound pretty good with pins, at least in the context Mike uses them.

Emperors are a good "standard" to use to measure any given drum's abilities. It will bring out some low end, without being muffled. They are easiest to tune, because there are no "special effects."
 
In the 1st video, it was likely mic technique vs the drum. From the 2nd video, I am getting a round tom tone with plenty of low end. They are not that flat or dead. I can use Joey Jordinson's kit as a measuring stick for dead, and yours are not nearly that dead. Nor are they as dead as Gadd's kit.

Now, compared to the wide open/high pitched "jazzer" sound the critique might be a bit valid, but as Harry commented: I suspect crappy PC speakers from the "plaintiff." The 2nd video has better tone and sound.

That makes sense, because the second video was recorded with a different camera, and it was less compressed. I actually tried putting an Emperor on my rack tom, because I liked the punchy, mid-range sound, but I couldn't really tune it to sound good. I think it was part my tuning ability, but also part because they are a bit harder to tune. For now, I really like the pinstripes. Any suggestions for tuning though, specifically for my kit? Because I've never heard it through nice speakers, I'm just wondering if you have any comments.
 
That makes sense, because the second video was recorded with a different camera, and it was less compressed. I actually tried putting an Emperor on my rack tom, because I liked the punchy, mid-range sound, but I couldn't really tune it to sound good. I think it was part my tuning ability, but also part because they are a bit harder to tune. For now, I really like the pinstripes. Any suggestions for tuning though, specifically for my kit? Because I've never heard it through nice speakers, I'm just wondering if you have any comments.

I say you are getting good results with the drumhead as is, don't mess with it. They serve well for overall uses. *IF* you wanted to be versatile and get tricky, clear emperors might work, but with moongel as required.

I prefer the pins, because I really don't need moongel if I don't want to.

The *only* real way (IMO) to capture a drum kit's sound are with at least semi decent mics, some kind of mixer (digital like presonus) and the ability to monitor the mix with decent headphones or speakers.

If you can't capture/hear a semi-decent representation of the kits sound as a decent microphone hears it, the rest has too many variables.

I know, because if *I* hear a serious anomaly on my kit (like a nasty plasticky slap) a mic will only exacerbate that effect. That (I am surmising) is why recordings are done with drums tuned and at least partially muffled in some way... except of course for the "wide open" jazz sound.

Good example: Steve Smith's "Shoulder of giants" DVD. IMO, his kit sounded slappy, and lacked some depth/richness. Todd Sucharman used either amb clears or emp clears and his kit sounded deeper and richer, without the plastic slap. (M&M dvd)
 
I say you are getting good results with the drumhead as is, don't mess with it. They serve well for overall uses. *IF* you wanted to be versatile and get tricky, clear emperors might work, but with moongel as required.

I prefer the pins, because I really don't need moongel if I don't want to.

The *only* real way (IMO) to capture a drum kit's sound are with at least semi decent mics, some kind of mixer (digital like presonus) and the ability to monitor the mix with decent headphones or speakers.

If you can't capture/hear a semi-decent representation of the kits sound as a decent microphone hears it, the rest has too many variables.

I know, because if *I* hear a serious anomaly on my kit (like a nasty plasticky slap) a mic will only exacerbate that effect. That (I am surmising) is why recordings are done with drums tuned and at least partially muffled in some way... except of course for the "wide open" jazz sound.

Good example: Steve Smith's "Shoulder of giants" DVD. IMO, his kit sounded slappy, and lacked some depth/richness. Todd Sucharman used either amb clears or emp clears and his kit sounded deeper and richer, without the plastic slap. (M&M dvd)

Interesting. Yeah, eventually I'll invest in some mics, but obviously their not my priority. I have the Performance IIs tuned really high on the bottom, with the Pinstripes pretty medium on the top, which gives a nice deep, punchy sound. If I was gigging, I definitely wouldn't use these though.
 
For one, people seem to look down on EQing like triggers, cheating, but I think it's really more of making the recording/mix sound more like your drums (given they sound good). I don't think there were any issues of sound in MP's Starrclassics that needed to be sorted at the mixer.

On another note, I like Remo CS heads. Good attack, warm sound. On my Birch kit.
 
I'm going to go out and replace the pins I have on mine, with emperors and ambas on the bottom, the pins just sound slappy to me, not a bad sound but i believe I can achieve better, and hey if it fails I can always through the pins back on.
 
I'm going to go out and replace the pins I have on mine, with emperors and ambas on the bottom, the pins just sound slappy to me, not a bad sound but i believe I can achieve better, and hey if it fails I can always through the pins back on.

Pins (like ec2 and g2 clears) don't always work on every kit. IMO, they work fine on SC maple, and my aluminum kit. They might not work well on oak or birch.

I feel as though my drums are ready to record, and I will only adjust levels, not EQ.

I will eq if required, but I believe in a great sounding kit first, not fixing things completely in post.
 
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