Disappointing Bass Drum head change rant

If the tension rods are the same length on both sides of the drum, then something is wrong with that Remo head.

As for Evans, the equivalent would be the regular single ply G1 as far as I recall.
 
OK, I have figured out what the deal is with the Luddie bass drum. The distance between the lugs and bearing edge on the reso side is 1.739 inches on my calipers. The same distance on the batter side measures 1.865.

So, heads that have a deeper collar, like the Remo, work on the batter side but not the reso. On the reso side, the rods bottom out. (I tested the PS3, and it does the same thing.) Heads that have shallower collars, like the Ludwig and the Aquarian, work on either side.

Some of the heads (notably the Remos also have slightly larger diameter JUST BEFORE the counter hoop, making it somewhat challenging to get the wood bass drum hoop seated evenly against the counter hoop. The Aquarian displays this tendency, too, but not as much as the Remo. The Ludwig fits perfectly. It's too bad I don't love the SOUND of their heads...

PS - a simple fix for using any heads on the reso side will be to add washers or get shorter rods.
 
You have the answer, Add thick nylon washers under the metal ones that you have on the rods.
I add nylon washers to all of my drums because I like how they allow the rod to turn smoothly.
 
You have the answer, Add thick nylon washers under the metal ones that you have on the rods.
I add nylon washers to all of my drums because I like how they allow the rod to turn smoothly.

Interestingly, my Ludwigs came with nylon washers all around. I just need to add another set.
 
My 2012 Club Date kit came with metal washers and I added nylon.
My vintage Ludwig kit of course has metal washers.
I figured that Classic Maple's came with metal???
 
My 2012 Club Date kit came with metal washers and I added nylon.
My vintage Ludwig kit of course has metal washers.
I figured that Classic Maple's came with metal???

Yeah, I don't know, I never compared to any other Classic maple kit? But mine came with nylon, as did my Pork Pie Big Black. The only drum I have right now with metal washers is my Yamaha snare. I kind of figured all newer kits were coming with nylon. They sure cause less wear on the hoops than metal.
 
Why the hell would the lugs be mounted differently on either side of the drum? Is that standard operation procedure for that line of drums? I would contact Ludwig and say WTF??!!
 
Why the hell would the lugs be mounted differently on either side of the drum? Is that standard operation procedure for that line of drums? I would contact Ludwig and say WTF??!!

I suspect they drill the holes for the lugs first and then cut the bearing edge. They probably had to take a tiny bit more off to get the edge perfectly level, and since they only mount their own heads, they would never know it could be an issue with the mini-lugs. I never knew there was a problem til I tried putting the Remo reso head on.

I've had the kit over two years, so I'm not going to bother Ludwig about it, especially when the fix is so easy.
 
OK, I have figured out what the deal is with the Luddie bass drum. The distance between the lugs and bearing edge on the reso side is 1.739 inches on my calipers. The same distance on the batter side measures 1.865..

is it possible your BD was cut down from a longer length?

maybe from 18" or 20"? what's the distance between lug holes?

usually uneven distances like that suggest a cut-down

YMMV
 
is it possible your BD was cut down from a longer length?

maybe from 18" or 20"? what's the distance between lug holes?

usually uneven distances like that suggest a cut-down

YMMV

I don't really think so. I ordered it new and got the shipment directly from the Ludwig factory.
 
Yeah, I just realized that the difference is tiny, but still, they really don't leave enough tolerance for "normal" drum heads. That's just crazy.
 
Here's an update to the update.

My original plan to use the Aquarian head on the batter side and Remo Ambassador on the reso side didn't work because of head fit and because I hated the sound of the Aquarian head.

Once I ascertained that the head fit problem had to do with the drum's reso side dimensions and not really the head itself, I decided to try the Remo Ambassador on the batter side. I was still interested in finding out what Bo, Karl, and others were seeing in the heads without pre-muffling.

Well, shaZAMM! The Ambassador is everything the Aquarian was not - easy to tune, full-sounding, warm, and deep. The biggest advantage over the PS3 is that it still sounds quite full, even at LOW volumes, such as when I'm using brushes. It just seems more sensitive to me than the PS3. Not that the PS3 sounds bad - it doesn't. It just sounds more one-dimensional than the Ambassador. (I went back to the Ludwig stock head for the reso side.)

BTW, I am using a modified version of Simon Phillips' rolled up towel for muffling. I hate the duct tape on the heads, so I use velcro to hold the towel against the head. Looks much neater.
 
My Ludwig bass drums all have the thick washers on--like 1/4" or 3/8" thick.

What did yours come with? If they are thin (regular) washers, I can see how a tension rod might bottom out with the Mini-Classic lug (I have the Large Classic, or Mach lugs on my drums).
I didn't really care for the look of the M-Classic, so I've never bought them, but, personally, I can't imaging that the little bit of size difference between those lugs could make a difference on the very resonant shells Ludwig makes. My Mach lug drums are real resonant too.

I've never had a problem with any brand head on my old 14x24 3 ply with metal washers and t-rods though.

The PS3 head may have not done it because it's a pretty thick collar with the 2 plies of head there. It takes a lot to get it to sound high pitched, so that is probably why you never got to bottoming out a rod. If you wanted a higher pitch on the front, and the head is tightened down, there probably isn't much space inside the Mini-Classic lug.
Before anyone "blasts" Ludwig for this horrific oversight in design, that's why the washers are thick. So you can do whatever you want tension-wise.

When I bought new die cast claws to change over some drums, they came with two thicknesses of washers in the package.

I like the CA because it is full, natural, and a great blend of tone and punch.
Since it's a 26, it sounds full and all that at any volume I play. It's very easy to play the 26 at lower volumes as Bo has also stated in his posts on this size drum.

My muffling is a "reverse Simon Phillips" method--that's even how I described it to Simon when he asked me how I got my bass drum sounding so great :)
It sits between the posts and the head. I can move it around for more or less dampening of tones in the head just by reaching down.

One thing I think adds to the sound also, is the patch I use. It's a 3"x4" piece of Coated Ambassador taped to the head. It sounds like there is no patch because it's the same material (and coating).

I can't use a pre-muffed head anymore. Not after 17+ years of un-muffled glory :)

Front heads I have used are Smooth White Remo, Smooth White Ludwig, Coated Ambassador, and Coated Ludwig (heavy-their 10 mil. head).
I like all of them. The Ludwig SW head is pretty solid sounding, with maybe a little more clear sound than the Remo SW. CA is a good in-between, sounds great, no problem front head. The Coated Ludwig sounds good, and gets a deeper sounding than either Remo style.
I don't use a felt, or anything on the front head. There's a medium sized piece of foam taped to the bottom of my shells to stop the sound from bouncing around. It doesn't touch either head.

I had a Remo Ebony head on front for a minute, but don't really like the sound of that head.

Ludwig heads do have a sound of their own, and I liked it for a bit, but went back to CA's--but, there's a new Legacy kit with the Ludwig Medium coated heads at the shop that sounds reeeeeaaallly good.
Ludwig heads need less tension on them compared to other brands (to get the same type of sound), and you can't play super heavy on them before they start kinda "boing-ing out".

Good luck with your drum!!
 
My Ludwig bass drums all have the thick washers on--like 1/4" or 3/8" thick.

What did yours come with? If they are thin (regular) washers, I can see how a tension rod might bottom out with the Mini-Classic lug

My muffling is a "reverse Simon Phillips" method--that's even how I described it to Simon when he asked me how I got my bass drum sounding so great :)
It sits between the posts and the head. I can move it around for more or less dampening of tones in the head just by reaching down.

Good luck with your drum!!

The washers on my drum are nylon, but they aren't really thick - nowhere near 1/4". Interesting. Easy enough to add washers or get thicker ones though.


Your description of the "reverse Simon Phillips" is one of the things that got me interested in trying that muffling method. Unfortunately, the roll tucked behind the posts of my direct-drive Yamaha pedal interferes with the linkage, so I had to put it inside like Simon's. Sounds great, but I don't have the flexibility you have. I'm happy with it, though.

All in all, I love the sound of the drum. This head change just threw me for a loop for a while, til I got it sorted out.
 
Back
Top