Fast single stroke rolls with no fingers?

Hey Derek, yeah, I have a very loose floor tom that gives practically no rebound, and I'd like to be able to play as fast on that as I can on a tight snare so I'd like my stroke to not depend on rebound... You can get this by using your wrist and not your fingers.

Do you find that your own wrist-dominant technique is not dependent on rebound?

Also (and this is kind of going off topic) are you still using that foot technique where your ankle is completely locked (and doesn't pivot) - and the entire stroke is generated from lifting your thigh off the floor and letting it drop again?
 
T-1000 said:
Do you find that your own wrist-dominant technique is not dependent on rebound?
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I don't rely on rebound at all really. I play really lose drum heads and have never really thought abut it too much. Maybe because I like to tune low...lead to me using more wrist. Who knows! Haha.


T-1000 said:
(and this is kind of going off topic) are you still using that foot technique where your ankle is completely locked (and doesn't pivot) - and the entire stroke is generated from lifting your thigh off the floor and letting it drop again?
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Depends on what I'm playing. I don't use any one technique over another. I find myself using everything I know at one point or another. Again, because sound changes with your grip...I go by what I want to hear. Same with the feet.

Yes, I do have a tediously to "run on the pedals" when playing fast but, that's the only way I can hear the bass drums. If I don't... the sound is lost and it goes right back to where I started....the sound.
Again, chasing the sound most likely lead to me playing the way I do.

D
 
I recommend practicing your rolls on a snare drum with brushes to develop wrist strength

not only single stroke rolls.....but all of your rolls

release the brushes about 3/4 so the wires are slightly tight and run through your hand regimen

this will tell you just how precise your wrists are because there will be zero rebound .....you will be surprised at the control and strength you develop

also practice this without a drum....just brushes in the air

the flex of the brush fan creates a nice resistance that is great for strengthening wrists

just something nice to add to your regular repertoire
 
Anthony Amodeo said:
I recommend practicing your rolls on a snare drum with brushes to develop wrist strength

not only single stroke rolls.....but all of your rolls

release the brushes about 3/4 so the wires are slightly tight and run through your hand regimen

this will tell you just how precise your wrists are because there will be zero rebound .....you will be surprised at the control and strength you develop

also practice this without a drum....just brushes in the air

the flex of the brush fan creates a nice resistance that is great for strengthening wrists

just something nice to add to your regular repertoire
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I've done this for quite a while and it has done wonders for my wrists...and double strokes. Playing the rudiments with brushes is an excellent way to clean them up.

The brushes in air thing has been an off and on part of my warm up too. I got it from a DVD I saw a long time ago. It seems like it may have been the Buddy Rich Rudiments Around the Kit DVD.
 
Jeff Almeyda said:
I'm sorry, I wasn't totally clear.

Without the shiver technique he can do well over 250 BPM with his wrists only or with fingers. The bare handed roll I saw him play on his chest was good old fashioned wrist, no shiver.

Without the shiver he's at about 300 BPM max for at least 15 seconds. With the shiver he's over 300 BPM for over a minute.

He can play near 400 BPM for 1 measure bursts.

I honestly don't know if it's idiosyncratic to Mike or if it's just that no one has ever worked at it before. You have to remember, he was already the fastest guy around BEFORE he discovered the shiver.

I've seen one other guy do the shiver on youtube and he was almost as fast as Mike but nowhere near the control.

I find it funny when guys say the shiver is only useful for WFD. You need to watch Mike play 16th note ride patterns with one hand at 150 BPM.
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Not sure if all of this is true, I do know from 20 years ago Mike had the nastiest chops on earth (in my eyes then). I studied with a few Berklee grads and some notable ones for a short time, but he was ridiculous.
 
uniongoon said:
saw Flo Mournier in a clinic. He gets pretty fast with wrist only. He told me he developed it with a heavy regimen of weight training, mostly wrist curls.
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Flo Mournier is actually a guy who, to me, it looks like his technique is very finger-y, and not using wrists so much.
 
Youtube Dick Cully. He does a great job expressing the role that fingers play in rudiments. To put it simply, too many guys today are looking to their fingers for a shortcut to speed. You must develope fast wrists and use them as your foundation. Every drummer alive uses their fingers to take advantage of rebound, and most don't even realize it. But it's important that if the rebound isn't there you have wrists to back it up.
 
T-1000 said:
Is there any way to do very fast single stroke rolls (250bpm) without using your fingers at all?.....Does anyone know any notable drummers who play very fast using without using rebound? What is their grip and technique?
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I think this issue boils down to your physical aspects. I like to go to fingers when increasing speeds. Can I do it with wrists - sure. When I look at my drum students, some can do it, most cannot. So after all the practice and technique it will eventually fall into physical ability. Playing faster does not make you a better drummer, just shows off your nervous system and muscular skills.

Cliff
 
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