Improvising fills

i find that less fills equals a better drummer and a better performance. No drummer has ever lost a gig by playing time.

Good point.
And, if you are playing the snare drum on 2&4 and then for one bar at the end of the verse you play the snare drum on 2,3&4; You just did a fill.



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What's an exercise?

An activity to better one's ability to perform a certain activity.

You create the exercises.

Past the most basic level and supplement with the more of a mentor attitude that's more relevant today than ever, that would a the main teachers job. IMO

If one student doesn't get it, generally because they don't have the experience or insight it's our job to make it so. It's amazing how many teachers don't really get that, that's also why I think too many of them suck.
 
For such a simple question there's so much to consider, and I think this is something that all of us have faced at some point in our playing. Here are a couple ideas that really stuck out to me:

I'm not sure if you can learn to be spontaneous, the key to improvising.

I agree. I think most improvisation is really just creatively stringing together licks and bits you've already worked on. The talent is in hiding the process and making what you're doing sound like it has a purpose in the moment.

Which leads me to another point I like a lot:

Improvising fills is not something that you can quickly develop. But here is what worked for me. I practiced the original thirteen essential rudiments...

These rudiments essentially give us the building blocks for our vocabulary as drummers. They're still only a means to an end (you have to figure out for yourself which ones fit the music you're playing, and how you want to orchestrate them on the whole kit) but having the technical facility to play them well opens up fill possibilities because when you're no longer concentrating on technique it allows you to focus more on choosing the right fill for the song.
 
For me, when others say I'm improvising, I'm usually not really doing so. I use the melodies, rhythms and themes of the song itself to guide how my fills and transitions will go. I just try to mimic/enhance what I'm hearing... So I think of it as less "improvising" and more "playing stuff inspired by what's in my ears".
 
This is the opposite of improvising. That's a "standard" fill that even has a name.

Isn't improvising just grabbing appropriate fills from your bag of tricks, as required?

The bigger your bag, and the more you practice grabbing stuff out of it, the better your improvising becomes.
 
Isn't improvising just grabbing appropriate fills from your bag of tricks, as required?

The bigger your bag, and the more you practice grabbing stuff out of it, the better your improvising becomes.

Not really... Having a list of fills that you use is the opposite of improvising.

im·pro·vise
ˈimprəˌvīz
verb
create and perform (music, drama, or verse) spontaneously or without preparation.

When an actor spontaneously comes up with a line on set, that's improv... If he's using lines he pre-wrote and memorized that's the opposite.
 
Yeah, for that actor metaphor.

You'll probably be using common works, but having them down and practiced putting them together spontaneously into coherent ideas during practice you wil simply improve.

There's the crux right there. Don't do mindless exercises. Do the thing you try to learn, note what doesn't flow and fix that specifically. This practice hopefully relates to th voice you want to have on the instrument. There's really nothing that requires more practice than doing this well and what you are practicing as much as anything is your level of focus and just really being present.
 
Not really... Having a list of fills that you use is the opposite of improvising.

im·pro·vise
ˈimprəˌvīz
verb
create and perform (music, drama, or verse) spontaneously or without preparation.

When an actor spontaneously comes up with a line on set, that's improv... If he's using lines he pre-wrote and memorized that's the opposite.

It comes down to what you mean by "create".

When an actor improvises, he doesn't invent words, he strings together words that he already knows to come up with new phrases. If it fits the music, sticking with the example that I gave, you might play

Debbie Boone
Pat Boone
Pat Boone
Debbie Boone

...over a selection of drum kit elements that works.

Just because the fill consists of patterns that you may know an already use doesn't mean that it isn't improvised.
 
Not really... Having a list of fills that you use is the opposite of improvising.

im·pro·vise
ˈimprəˌvīz
verb
create and perform (music, drama, or verse) spontaneously or without preparation.

When an actor spontaneously comes up with a line on set, that's improv... If he's using lines he pre-wrote and memorized that's the opposite.

I don't quite go with that ... it's almost like saying because you've hit a drum before playing drums isn't improvising or you're playing away and suddenly decide to do a paradiddle fill BUT because you're using a paradiddle that you've previously learnt it's not improvising.

The improvisation is taking what you've learnt and choosing where and when to apply it without any pre-planning.

It's weird seeing how many people do pre plan what they're going to play I virtually never do and am able to get reasonably close to the original in most instances or something that works ... unless ... they're fairly complicated rhythms / fills in which case I may break them down and repeatedly go back over certain sections until I get them.

That said literally a week ago for the 1st time ever I listened to parts of a song and played the fill in my mind 1st and then copied what I'd imagined playing on the kit and it broadened out what I did quite a lot ... this would obviously take a long time to do for every song but some of the results were quite spectacular.
 
It comes down to what you mean by "create".

When an actor improvises, he doesn't invent words, he strings together words that he already knows to come up with new phrases. If it fits the music, sticking with the example that I gave, you might play

Debbie Boone
Pat Boone
Pat Boone
Debbie Boone

...over a selection of drum kit elements that works.

Just because the fill consists of patterns that you may know an already use doesn't mean that it isn't improvised.

The point I was trying to get at is that inserting pre-practiced fills and patterns will only get you so far and quickly start to look like a limitation even if you sort of vary it with different combinations on those fills. You want to keep yourself open to anything that might inspire you and pulling from the bag of tricks keeps you thinking about that bag of tricks. Really all I'm saying is that in your example above, I think of individual notes as "words" and you're talking about using whole pre-practiced patterns as your words. That's the potential limitation I'm implying.

Using word syllables as guides is a great way to practice new patterns and get techniques under your belt, but the end goal should be honing your overall abilities at translating the rhythms in the music around you into literal complimentary fills. Don't think about how many boones you can fit into a space and in what combination, think about/react what's playing around you in a completely open mind-set. That's real improv. That's where the new ideas come from.

For me and lots of musicians I know... When some new player we encounter is pulling from a "bag of tricks" it becomes painfully obvious once we run through a few songs and you hear the recycling of the same patterns. To be honest, it's something we all do, even other instrument players... It's hard to resist putting what we practice to direct use... But being able to resist doing so is a great skill to have.

Again, none of this is directed at you and you're the second most awesome James around here. I'm pontificating on the general concept. I've also had several teachers use the word-syllable idea when breaking down fills so it's not an invalid idea or anything, I just think it should be for learning rather than use in live musical situations... It's like counting. After a certain point, we shouldn't need to count as we play to stay in place and time, we do it when we practice because it helps us break down the fill/section/beat into chunks that are easy to understand and replicate in relation to the time.

The same often goes for "rudiments". In a normal music/rock setting, you don't want to just be verbatim regurgitating rudiments in different combinations to try and make them sound different. You want to practice those rudiments to help your body and mind be able to execute whatever pattern you might come up with or be inspired for.
 
Creativity has a 'skill' aspect that can be developed.

A couple things that I feel have improved by playing selection 'on the fly'.

1) Always be thinking about a rhythm even while doing other things. I am right now and usually am unless in a real tight 'concentration required' spot on some critical task.

2) When you play, set time for practicing creativity...and record it.
Play along with something and if you play something you think is not what you want to be hearing from your playing, stop immediately...back up...and do it again.
I pursued the sensation of unfamiliarity with what I am currently playing and would stop immediately if it was familiar, back up and do it again...very hard to do.
This can play havoc with your established time skills...so be sure to attend to practicing your timing and 'time keeping' in equal measure...yay metronomes!

3) Learn to endure the irritation of attending to that nagging sensation that you have done this before...that is a bear.


Careful with this...it can alter your playing...make sure you like what you are producing as you develop the 'familiarity' sense...I learned that what sounds good on paper(such as ambidextrous playing) may not meet what you are wanting from your playing.

Otto
 
The point I was trying to get at is that inserting pre-practiced fills and patterns will only get you so far and quickly start to look like a limitation even if you sort of vary it with different combinations on those fills.

Again I'm sorry I disagree, if you learn enough of them and become totally fluent in them whilst you might have learnt say rlrlkk as a fill and practiced that on it's own you may also have learnt rlk as a fill and practiced that on it's own and may also of learnt a paraddidle fill.

If you've learnt them well enough and they're so ingrained you'll find you switch between them mid fill without even thinking about it and open up a massive vocabulary of going from one to the other as you just switch between them without even thinking about it.

Maybe you personally can't do this but don't see it as a limitation on what others can do.

If you only learn the letters act in the alphabet you'll only be able to spell a limited number of words ... one meows ... if you learn the whole alphabet you can use an awful lot more words and mix and match them as you see fit ... drumming is no different ... you may start to spell cat but as you start it you may decide to change it to caterpillar or catery or cateye or cataract half way though but if you haven't learnt the pillar, ery. eye or aract part you can't go there but if you've learnt them well you go go between all of them whenever you want chopping and changing as you please.

The more you pre-practice fills / patterns the more fluently you'll be able to play them but also switch from one to another half way through as in reality nobody sits there and plays though a song with totally unique fills / rhythms they've never done before in their entire life ... just not realistic.
 
The more you pre-practice fills / patterns the more fluently you'll be able to play them but also switch from one to another half way through as in reality nobody sits there and plays though a song with totally unique fills / rhythms they've never done before in their entire life ... just not realistic.

Nonsense. Might not be something you're good at, but it's very realistic. Not once in my entire life have I sat around for hours practicing pre-thought out fills. I base my playing on the music, which is already chock full of interesting rhythmic ideas that can, on the fly, be turned into unique and interesting transitions or "fills". Even in my own band's original songs, I quite often play new things as I'm inspired rather than play what was already come up with. Things I've never played before because only that song has that little rhythmic thing that inspired my new fill.

It will probably really blow your mind to know that I never, ever think in terms of "fills" at all. I am not trying to shoehorn my pre-learned fills into the music, I let the music lead me and create my fills. If you're not confident enough to truly improvise and feel you absolutely must select from your carefully practiced bag of trick fills, you are indeed limiting yourself and your ability to create.

It's okay, we can disagree, but I think you're closing your mind a bit on this. Trust me when I say that a LOT of musicians roll their eyes when dudes are up there regurgitating the same fills in slightly different ways or looking for places to shoe-in the cool rudiment or triplet fill they worked so hard on. It's cringey.

Also, side note, you may not be aware but it looks like the link in your signature to your band page is dead due to domain expiry. Just wanted to let you know!
 
Some good advice on this thread.

A common denominator I’ve seen with drummers who have issues similar to the OP’s is a rhythm issue and not a drumming one.

Working through all permutations of 16ths and triplets ala Bob Moses, Chaffee or, more recently Benny Greb will open you up.

Working through Gary Chester’s 39 basic systems or Bellson’s 4/4 book will help you to use those permutations.

Of course this all assumes you can read.

It goes on from there, with developing the ability to subdivide the pulse any way you like and then developing the ability to cross the barline freely.

If it all seems like too much just run through Gary Chester a few times. The rhythmic awareness it will give you will go a long way
 
For kit, all you really need are singles, doubles, flams, and paradiddles. Paradiddles are especially productive for fill ideas and even beats.

I concur with this
Paradiddles open up so many different combinations on around your hi-hat/snare/toms/kick and allows you to do fills that end in a kick drum or reset on snare, which is one of the oft-used type fills. I will often use singles followed by a combination of paradiddle to go into the next bar.

Also, I love incorporating double strokes in the beginning of the fill that allows dynamic accenting of the rest of the fill before ending it
 
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