Can a better pedal improve my technique?

Hi. I've been reading about improving bass pedal technique and I hear people say stuff like (paraphrase) "it doesn't matter how good your pedal/equipment, if you don't have the skill to use it". I have a crappy low-end tama swingstar(not the good 80s swingstar) and stock hi-hat and bass pedals and my right foot is not progressing as fast as I'd like it to. Now grant it, I haven't put in the hours of learning how to get complicated mult-strokes out of the pedal but when I do practice on it, it feels really awkward and cumbersome. Am I feeling this solely because I'm a noob drummer or can a crappy pedal contribute to this? In other words if I upgrade my pedal will it help improvement of my technique?


P.S. I'm not John Bonham but I want to "acquire" his right foot. :(
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

Well, the answer will always be, "maybe". The Tama low-end pedals aren't bad, and they function as they should. I myself play Tama Iron Cobra Juniors because I like the simplicity and like the pedal plate on the bottom. If I take the plate off, it becomes the low-end Tama pedal you're probably using.

And the thing is, if you got the same kind of pedal from anyone else (DW, Pearl, Yamaha, etc.,...) it's not going to feel too different. You'll get a different feeling from Axis, Trick, or the Sonor Jojo Meyer pedal I think. You could step up to a better pedal, like Tama's Iron Cobra - but to me they feel like my juniors with more adjustments I don't need. If anything, getting a better pedal will remove all doubt that the pedal is holding you back (mentally, anyway).

You should try an ancient Ludwig Speed King - I started out on one of those and it feels significantly different than everything else. But when I left that pedal and went to a DW5000 I suddenly felt like I could fly ;) Good luck in your quest!
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

If you can afford a good pedal, get one. A better design, with newer parts and smooth action, will make it easier to play what you can already play.

However, you won't get quick doubles until you practice them in a variety of contexts, and a host of other exercises, every day and for a decent period of time. Maybe the reason you're not making the sort of progress you wish is because you don't know what, and how, to practice? The right methods and materials will grow your skill much faster than any pedal.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

Go choose a nice pedal and find out.

You're probably going to buy one later anyway.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

When I started playing and got my own kit I was using a cheapie Tama pedal, probably the same thing you're using with a single chain and no bottom plate. It clicks and clacks and slides from side to side when I play. I bought an Axis shortboard and played on it for a bit. Went back and forth between the Tama and the Axis for a while. I went through a 2 month phase where I played the Tame because I thought I liked the chain drive better. When I tried the Axis out again I was amazed at how much cleaner my foot technique sounded.

The moral of this is that a good pedal will not be a substitute for good technique and hours or practice but it will certainly help. I use a few different cheapie chain drive pedals when I take lessons. I do notice a difference and I can play much better on my own pedal.

What I would recommend is try out as many different pedals as you can, either on a friend's kit, at the store or (my favorite) buying them used on Craigslist. Take your time and fiddle around with the adjustments till you know the pedal in and out. Buy a dirty Speedking and clean it up, PM me if you need some links on this. The pedal should feel like an extension of your right foot that is used to play your bass. Practice, practice and more practice will help develop your technique but a good, dialed in pedal will allow you properly utilize that technique.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

..... Practice, practice and more practice will help develop your technique but a good, dialed in pedal will allow you properly utilize that technique.

This sums up my view as well. A pedal that works best for you is a journey unto itself. It can take a long while to find one that works for you. Then you may stumble on one at a later date that works even better.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

Hi. I've been reading about improving bass pedal technique and I hear people say stuff like (paraphrase) "it doesn't matter how good your pedal/equipment, if you don't have the skill to use it".

That's true, but the other side of the coin is that a cheap (or poorly adjusted) pedal will limit what your foot can do.

The good news is, most pedals in the $75+ range are pretty smooth, and adjustable enough to better allow your foot to be its best. Some are smoother than others or have a few extra adjustments to really dial them in, but even some lower-end pedals are really nice for the price. A few years ago Ludwig (and others) had a Gibraltar-made pedal with a black footboard for well under $100, which was surprisingly smooth and agile.

A new pedal by itself won't improve your technique, but it will allow your technique to improve.

Bermuda
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

On Sundays I play another guy's kit. It has a Groove Percussion pedal. It's fine for a beginner, I guess, but this pedal gives me problems. It takes more effort to play and it can lag my beat a little if I'm not on top of it because it takes a lot more effort to do the sixteenth notes. I'm used to my Axis pedal which has great action on the sixteenth notes. Also, this pedal gives me cramps in my toes. I got a cramp right in the middle of a song last night and my timing was all over the place. Needless to say, the band leader was very unhappy with my performance on that song and I had to apologize profusely. I had to play the next song with a small cramp in my foot. Luckily it was a slow one. Breathe.

I'm pretty sure it's the pedal. The stupid hi-hat pedal gives me problems too, whereas my Iron Cobra and Sonor ones are great. In fact, I like the cheaper Sonor one better. So think about the hi-hat pedal too.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

Pedals are sort of like sticks, it becomes a personal preference. Some pedals feel better to me than others, while the opposite could be true for someone else. If your pedal is in shambles, then for sure replace or fix it. But the pedal itself wont make you better. That would be like thinking a certain stick will make you better. Remember, you play the pedal, not the other way around. If it feels good on your foot, go with it. If the pedal feels awkward and uncomfortable, too light or heavy, then I would say replace it.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

In my opinion the pedal shouldn't have an effect on how you play..

Of course, if the pedal is broken or rusty so it's not working then it's obvious that you can't improve.

But, I have played on a lot of pedals actually, some very high end pedals and some very cheap pedals for like 10 bugs.
In the first years when I started playing drums my pedal was an old Sonor pedal where the footboard was all sloppy, the spring was like 20 years old but I managed to play on it and today I can say I don't regret I didn't buy a new pedal.

I'm not sure if a cheap pedal will limit your abilities, I sometimes have the feeling when i played live that the crappy premier whatever pedal works better than an expensive DW 5000 pedal or pearl pedal.

A new/different pedal will feel different so just check out some pedals and maybe you'll find a pedal for 50 bugs that you like more than a pedal for 500 bugs.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

A Ferrari wont make you a better driver. The best pedal is only as good as the guy using it. there are a lot of mid range pedals out there that are perfect for most of us.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

go to a music store. spend half a day in there trying every pedal... when you narrow it down. go to another store and do the same thing. try every pedal, use your friends pedals. and do some searching on the internet.

For me I can play faster on the axis than any other pedal. because it works with MY technique and style. I know guys that HATE axis. But i have also tried every other pedal I can get my hands on to be sure its the right one for me.

You also have to remember EVERY pedal has a ton of settings to change the feel,response,power,speed,angle so once you have a preference you can really start adjusting. Just something to remember in the shops or buddies houses before you judge a pedal that's not set for you
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

Iron Cobra or Speed Cobra.

I am a FIRM believer that better pedals can elevate your level of play.

I regret not getting them sooner.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

They can make your bad technique work better but actually it will become a crutch. Buddy Rich, Tony Williams, John Bonham.... those guys didn't have the fortune of playing pedals like we have today.

Will they make sticks that play themselves someday? I hope not.

I learned on my standard Tama single-chain pedal that was wobbly as heck. Then I got a crappy Gibralter double-pedal... it SUCKED. But I worked hard to develop power, accuracy and "slide doubles", while NEVER burying the beater. Finally, I got serious gigs that paid well and I was playing 4 or 5 nights a week so I felt I deserved a good pedal.

Practice, practice, practice...
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

My take is different than most...nice, high quality and functional equipment will make you play better. You will want to play more and you will not get frustrated as easily when you know you're playing a high end instrument or accessory. The less frustration, the more practice, the more you can focus on improving.

To say the old timers didn't have good equipment is a farce. They didn't play Speed Cobras or DW9000s, but they played the absolute best available at the time...most in the 70s-80s played a Speed King, which is still available today and those pedals made back in the day still function quite well in the 21st century.

I will always defer to improving your equipment when you believe it will take your game to the next level...I don't care if it's drums, guitar, golf clubs, hockey skates...I've played bargain level products and I've played high end in everything I do...that stuff is high end for a reason.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

My take is different than most...nice, high quality and functional equipment will make you play better. You will want to play more and you will not get frustrated as easily when you know you're playing a high end instrument or accessory. The less frustration, the more practice, the more you can focus on improving.

To say the old timers didn't have good equipment is a farce. They didn't play Speed Cobras or DW9000s, but they played the absolute best available at the time...most in the 70s-80s played a Speed King, which is still available today and those pedals made back in the day still function quite well in the 21st century.

I will always defer to improving your equipment when you believe it will take your game to the next level...I don't care if it's drums, guitar, golf clubs, hockey skates...I've played bargain level products and I've played high end in everything I do...that stuff is high end for a reason.

I tend to agree with this. At least for me, I tend to do better when I have confidence that I have good quality gear. Then when I get stuck on something, it removes any doubt that my technique is the roadblock, not my instrument or equipment. That motivates me to work harder, and not get as frustrated with my difficulties. In addition to that, good equipment is generally more enjoyable to play on, because it sounds better, looks better, and feels better.

I've learned from my experiences over the years that when I buy a musical instrument, piece of electronics, tools, etc, I buy the absolute best I can afford, even if it means cutting back on my beer budget or whatever for a couple of months. I've never regretted spending too much on those things, but I've often regretted spending too little.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

I think a better quality pedal that's adjusted properly to work with your foot makes things easier to pull off, but ultimately it all comes down to the skill of the player. I can play what I can play on almost any pedal, but I find that I have an easier time on certain pedals. For instance, I have an 11 year old IC that works well, and it has been a durable workhorse for countless gigs. I don't feel like its holding me back, BUT, everytime I mess around with a Pearl Eliminator, I find it easier to pull off quick doubles and triples. I feel like it gets out of my way a little better than the IC (which is why I'm about to break down and buy one). I guess I'm not really on one side of the debate or the other lol. Its the skill of the player, no question, but a good pedal that fits your style of playing will make what you can do already easier to pull off, IMHO.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

....can a better pedal improve my technique?....


Kind of a tricky question. I'd say a qualified yes, to a small degree. But practice and technique is far more important.

The qualifier is defining 'better'. I had a very inexpensive, beginner's pedal, that I could really wail with. Not sure exactly why - probably a combination of size, spring tension, beater length/weight, and so on.

Anyways, the point is that most drummers would probably laugh at that pedal if you called it 'better'. But still, I could play faster, and it felt more natural, than some much more expensive pedals I've tried.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

A Ferrari wont make you a better driver. ....
Yes, but depending on which one, a Ferrari could give the same driver better lap times.

At first I hated this analogy, and brushed it off. But after considering your whole point, I'd suggest that the Ferrari has a lot of feedback and communicative properties that normal cars do not, hence why most people can't drive competitively. A Ferrari commands that you listen to it, and it will tell you everything you need to do to it to make it efficient. The more feedback and communication you have with your pedal, the more aware a player might be.

In a car, there are few feedback mechanisms... The largest inputs are the steering wheel, brake pedal, and throttle.

Ever brake from 160mph to 45mph going into a corner in a Ferrari? There is so much the car is telling you through the brake pedal. It really tunes in your feet. The car will tell you when it is ready to have have the steering input begin (so you can begin turn-in with the steering wheel as you let up on the brake pedal).

My biggest issue with pedals is that I had to learn when to hit the beat, and it wasn't always when I needed it to be there (same reason I tighten the crap out of my cymbals). This is where subroutines begin (the unconscious calculations that net the desired result automatically).

Funny story - I had an old set of Tama double Iron Cobras. Due to a lot of transportation and setting up/tearing down, the middle connecting bar started to wear, at the place the screws held in the middle. So there was a little play on the left pedal. This play translated into delay from when I struck the pedal until the beater hit the head. No amount of tightening fixed this, because the metal was no longer there. I adjusted my play unconsciously, until my playing became even for the next several years. Recently (over a year ago), I purchased a new set of Speed Cobras (looking to upgrade), and the Cobra Coil is something I've gotten used to. I figured it was a natural progression. When I played them for the first time, I was so uneven, because my programming of my left foot had become so consistent, I was constantly hitting the left pedal too soon. This took about 2 months to finally dial out (after a lot of practice). One day I played my home kit, and there were my old double pedals... Without thinking too much about it, I started playing and now my left foot was dragging behind. UUUUGGGGGHHHH! Took the pedals off, bought a second set of Speed Cobras for the home kit.

Moral of the story - equipment matters - BUT, only if you can outplay the limitations of the current equipment.
 
Re: can a better pedal improve my technique?

Yes, but depending on which one, a Ferrari could give the same driver better lap times.



Moral of the story - equipment matters - BUT, only if you can outplay the limitations of the current equipment.

I meant a lousy Asian female driver will still suck behind the wheel of a Ferrari. It will outplay the limitations of her crappy Toyota prius and she will still be a trerrible driver. sorry to be so politically in-correct but, prove me wrong female Asian drivers!! haven't seen a good one yet on the road!
 
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