Virgil Donati

Re: Check out Virgil

Bernhard said:
Ahh, and Aidan: Critics have the right to critizice.....it's their job - don't ask them to drum.
And great Drummers: you NEVER hear a bad word from them, they are not critics and they don't do it either.

Well, it's a nice idea. But the most savage things I've ever heard anybody say about Virgil came from a guy with a page here on Drummerworld, so I must admit that doesn't reflect my experience.

As for Aidan, mate... you can't even figure out when somebody is on your side of an argument, how do you expect to win it? As for my playing, go rummage over in the "Your Playing" forum if you feel the urge. Nothing overly special, but since when has that devalued an opinion? Or do you have to be Steven Spielberg to say that Ewe Boll is a lousy director?
 
Re: Check out Virgil

finnhiggins said:
Well, it's a nice idea. But the most savage things I've ever heard anybody say about Virgil came from a guy with a page here on Drummerworld, so I must admit that doesn't reflect my experience.

Ok, the exception confirms the rule - as we say in Switzerland....

Bernhard
 
Re: Check out Virgil

finnhiggins said:
Well, it's a nice idea. But the most savage things I've ever heard anybody say about Virgil came from a guy with a page here on Drummerworld, so I must admit that doesn't reflect my experience.
Right, a guy, out of the hundreds featured on DrummerWorld. So I guess maybe that does prove the point?
 
DogBreath I hear what you are saying, but if I am a blowhard for getting tired of guys repeatedly putting down others drumming contributions than so be it. I happen to know that others here STRONGLY agree with me. Did I put down someones gig or ability NO!! I made the point that guys get on here and say well I have a gig and play drums or read a book about this or that or talked to someone about this drummer therefore I have a right to trash others who have accomplished far more than those who do the trashing, which I do not agree with. A blowhard in my opinion is someone always talking themselves up whether it is their ability or knowledge of what is real music and their narrow point of view on what REAL drumming is and is not and constantly putting others abilities or contributions down, which happens here quite abit. Again I have not trashed anyone about their drumming at all but get tired of a forum being used as a sledgehammer against certain drummers. Again I find it very bizarre that no names in the drumming and music world(not that you have to be WELL known to be a good drummer) are the ones who the MAJORITY of the time are tearing someone else down who has the resume and the ability behind them.

Yeah I did check out your stuff Finn lets just leave it at that.
 
Re: Check out Virgil

DogBreath said:
Right, a guy, out of the hundreds featured on DrummerWorld. So I guess maybe that does prove the point?

Or not - not being in the habit of regularly talking to most of the guys on here I wouldn't know. What can I say? Too small a sample size to draw conclusions, seeing as I've only met a couple of the people on here.

On the other hand, I do remember quite clearly that all of my teachers at music school definitely had opinions as to what they liked and disliked in drumming, and weren't afraid to share them if the topic came up. I remember one teacher I had a lot of respect for making it quite clear he was no fan of Chad Smith. Fair enough - it wasn't his thing, and I don't think it would bother Chad any to know that some random British drummer doesn't think he's the best thing since Tony Williams. Equally, while I disagreed on the subject, somebody thinking that Chad Smith is not particularly worthy of respect as a drummer doesn't dimish my enjoyment of what he's done. Or there's Joe Morris' comment over on another thread about Mike Portnoy. Clearly Joe is not a fan there - that's his opinion and he's entirely entitled to it, even if he can't sit down and bash out the latest Dream Theater album without a moment of thought on the subject.

So I guess my take is... If you enjoy Virgil Donati's playing... all power to you! But he clearly is a player who is a cause of some contention, and it's clearly not because he's (objectively) amazingly awesome and people are just bitter on him - most people expressing a distaste for Virgil tend to have an alternative they'd suggest. Personally on the listening front I'd rather listen to Marco Minneman or Grant Collins because I do, generally, find their playing a bit more shaped, structured and musical. That's just taste, it's not because I can play as well as either of them so I'm somehow not jealous of their chops anymore. I guess my issue here is that it seems like you're allowed to have taste in drummers as long as you don't dislike Virgil Donati, or his little self-appointed Internet Minions will come out and lambast you for your arrogance. Not addressing moderation here, just the likes of Aidan.

I'd die to have Virgil's chops. He's done an amazing thing in building them, and I'm as happy as the next guy to stand around in sheer amazement if we're going to have a technical discussion of the mechanics of what he's doing. But personally, I really can't stand what he does musically, either solo or in a band. But it seems like somehow my right to a musical opinion is entirely negated by the amount of time Virgil has spent polishing his single stroke roll? I don't get that. Slipknot have clearly put a fair bit of time into their music, but that doesn't mean that saying "I really can't stand Slipknot" is off-limits for anybody. Ultimately, nobody gets into music unless they're comfortable with somebody saying "Hey, you guys really suck!". If you're that thin-skinned you tend to get out of the industry pretty fast.
 
NUTHA JASON said:
well i'm a blow hard and i think virgil has incredible chops, can groove but is not my cup of tea by a very long shot.

j

That is the most poignant post ever. I second the sentiment.

I'm with Finn too. This is a discussion thread about good/bad/ugly/nice/different, whatever. If all we ever do is say nice things for things that people post that are really bad, then this would be a dull web site.
 
Just for the record, I had taken a whole "2 lessons" from Virgil Donati when I lived in Melbourne, Australia, (where I grew up) some 15 years ago way before Virgil became the mega star drummer he is today. He is a very talented and gifted drummer..............and deserves to be up there with all the greats !
 
Hats off to you Nutha Jason, you proved that someone can give praise where it is due and yet at the same time say someone is not neccessarily your cup of tea without making someone look or sound bad, BIG hand clap.

Aidan
 
Re: Check out Virgil

Stu_Strib said:
Well after checking out some more stuff to investigate the possibilities to why people might bash this guy, here is my conclusion.

I think he plays too much like Steve Smith, Dave Weckl, Vinnie C. et.al, but not as well. I think he should make his own niche and be a monster ROCK player and cut back on the fusiony stuff that (just my opinion) he doesn't pull off very well.


Wow, I've never heard anyone say Virgil sounds like Smith, Weckl, or Vinne. Stu, are you sure you've been listening to Virgil Donati?

And what drummer featured on drummerworld said something "savage" about Virgil? This is news to me.


To add, I can't can't get enough of Virgil. I'm most interested by him at this moment in time, and have been obsessed for about 2 years. I'm either listening to him, Carey, Weckl, or Gadd alot this past month. I go on monthly swings, when I'm obsessed with a certain style/s.
 
I'm amazed.

Finn, You would Rather listen to Grant Collins? OMG!

Don't get the wrong impression. I've looked into what Collins is going for sometime now. My honest opinion. I'm left totally empty. I boared to peices that I can't watch it. You would have to chain me to the chair to get me to sit for more than 5 mintues to watch him. While his technique and ostinato building are extreamly impressive (espeicially his footwork and independence), I'm not feeling anything in his playing. I don't know, I'm just astounded that you are into him.
 
Re: Check out Virgil

toteman2 said:
And what drummer featured on drummerworld said something "savage" about Virgil? This is news to me.

Nothing public, this was in conversation. I'd rather not name names if that's OK, because it would involve dragging somebody else into the public eye for comments they made privately. If you don't want to take my word for it that's also fine, I wasn't looking for validation with an appeal to authority - merely pointing out that my personal experience was not that all pro drummers are sort of like Buddhist monks, all serenity and light and completely free of negative opinions of each other.

After all, Bill Bruford is a fantastic drummer and not exactly subtle about his dislike for the hyper-choppy approach and those who practice it.
 
toteman2 said:
I'm amazed.

Finn, You would Rather listen to Grant Collins? OMG!

Don't get the wrong impression. I've looked into what Collins is going for sometime now. My honest opinion. I'm left totally empty. I boared to peices that I can't watch it. You would have to chain me to the chair to get me to sit for more than 5 mintues to watch him. While his technique and ostinato building are extreamly impressive (espeicially his footwork and independence), I'm not feeling anything in his playing. I don't know, I'm just astounded that you are into him.

I must admit I've not watched a vast amount of his stuff, but the things I've seen have left me extremely impressed. Not so much by the chops - once he lets the singles fly over the ostinatos I tend to agree with you, it does go a bit empty. But some of the stuff he constructs is really quite clever. I saw one piece called "The Battle" or something similar that you would swear was a traditional Chinese percussion piece performed by a very large ensemble - it had authentic tones, rhythms and structure, all coming out of one guy on a drum kit. I was quite impressed because even though he was playing stuff in multiple voices it all made a whole lot of sense musically, both as a whole and with each piece isolated. It also seemed to have been very well researched, which is always impressive in a musician trying something in an alien style.

Donati doesn't do that for me when I watch his ostinato stuff in multiple meters. I just keep hearing numbers, not parts... if you see what I mean.
 
Here is my 2 cents, I love Grant for his independence and creativity but his technique is far from being real clean and consistent with both his feet and hands and his chops well they really do not do much for me, not horribly impressive. Grant and this is just me speaking comes across as more of a percussionist playing drums at times than a traditional drummer behind the kit but that is just my opinion. Grant is pretty darn original, props to him for that.
 
Virgil Donati rules! and will rule for ever!

i think virgil donati is the best drummer and will be for a long time... his double stroke pedal is just amazing! he can be as fast as he can! he has no boundaries , there is non higher! NON HIGHER!! "after all this time i feel i have only scratched the surface" virgil donati...
 
Re: Check out Virgil

finnhiggins said:
I guess my issue here is that it seems like you're allowed to have taste in drummers as long as you don't dislike Virgil Donati, or his little self-appointed Internet Minions will come out and lambast you for your arrogance.

It is my guess that one makes comments like this to inflame reponse. It is comments like these whereby one loses some crediblity with me. It is comments like these that one gets accused of arrogance. I guess my issue here is that it seems like you're allowed to have taste in drummers as long as you agree that Virgil cannot groove.( Does thinking so mean I couldn't possibly know what groove is? or be able to recognize it in other drummers?) I enjoy all the debate here until there are comments like these that tend to imply one's opinion is superior over anothers. All the intellectualizing done here will not change my view about Virgil or any other drummer. It is great reading, entertaining and I respect it greatly but.... if we all keep the comments on target and not against each other this thread may have a chance of not being closed.
 
I believe that the material on which most of Virgil's critics judge him, is limited to progressive/rock material from his -so far- 10 years living in the US or internet videos.

He's done tons of studio pop rock and jazz recordings in Australia, and believe me, I 've had friends guessing "Gadd?", "Marotta?", "Laboriel?" when I've played some of the older stuff of Virgils. He entered the Australian studioscene in the mid- late '70s -most people have no clue about this...
I've got about 45 or so -records with him. He can groove. Believe me.
 
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i got to believe this. a guy like virgil has miles of studio tape with his drumming on. very few of us can claim to know the full length of virgil's career. judging any drummer must shurely involve at least looking at half of his/her whole recorded material and virgil's is huge and obscure. what he does these days is so far off the envelope that it doesn't sit nicely in my ear but i have to believe that he can hold down a four on the floor should the song call for it. lol...imagine him covering an AC/DCsong. (that said, i learned more about drumming from phil rudd than i ever learned from virgil)

j
 
The problem is most guys are not willing to take the time and spend the money to check out certain guys catalog whether it is Virg or others. I can guarantee as Morgenthaler said Virg has done ALOT of studio work for MANY years now and some of it would throw people for a loop. I guess he got the call to record tracks for the Alfie soundtrack because he cannot groove and adapt to any musical situation. If I remember correctly that soundtrack was the farthest thing from extreme progressive/fusion. But as some do know he can do pretty much(not everything under the sun) whatever he wants VERY well. As Simon Phillips said after working with Virg in the studio, " along with being the most technically amazing drummer I have ever seen,this guy can adapt to any situation in the studio and he can do it quickly and with ease."
 
Aidan said:
Hats off to you Nutha Jason, you proved that someone can give praise where it is due and yet at the same time say someone is not neccessarily your cup of tea without making someone look or sound bad, BIG hand clap.

Aidan

Yes, but SOMEONE will get all offended and call him stupid, just watch. Nutha, it doesn't take too much to determine a guy's drum style, when HE himself is the one who chose to play THAT solo on THAT video. Sure he has other skills and abilities, but after about 5 videos of the same type of pseudo-fusiony chops riddled stuff, I think we get the point ;-)

And Finn, that whole post about keeping your source secret was great! After all your posts, I was surprised to find you have wit ;-)

So far none of my points have been cheap shots trying to tear down Donati. I've simply tried to state what people could possibly not like about his playing. I don't think anyone is saying he id overrated in the Travis Barker/Joey Jordison vein. For many drummers, it's just a matter of taste, or the perception of the lack thereof.

It's actually all the posts that start with "Virgil is the best drummer ever...look at his double pedal speed...blah blah" that most of us disagree with, and that does kind of a disservice to Virgil.
 
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