Flattening toms?

The consept of the virgin bass drum is also nothing new,as toms were mounted on bass drums using clamps ,since the mid 30's.Now we're just using clamps to mount them to racks and cymbal stands.

The consept of virgin bass drums being better sonicly is again,more drum re- fashion than actually decernable.I'd love to hear a blind comparison test of a virgin drum and one that has mounts attached.

It is in truth , more style than actual substance.

I'm thinking it's not so much the look of a virgin BD, as it is cutting out the application of a mount and not mounting the toms to the bass drum which in fact, with all that weight resting on top of the BD when the toms are on it, has an effect on the shell. I've tested the difference with my X7 BD with the mount and toms vs them being on the rack and there is a difference. It obviously doesn't completely deaden the drum but it does have some effect on the sustain.
 
You could say "drum fashion" - or you could say "changing things up a little every once in a while keeps things fresh".

My preference is - like many others have - to have everything slightly tilted towards me, both cymbals and drums. No need to reach or get awkward, everything is accessible and comfortable. Easy to play at all dynamic levels.

I have my rack tom on a snare stand - not because it's cool, but because the bass drum has been broken and re-glued and I don't want to stress the drum. It looks cool, yes, in a way. But so does a mounted tom.

Do I see stuff on the net and get ideas? Yes. I might even try some new things because I'm curious, just to see how it feels. But at the end of the day I set up my drums the way they feel the most natural to me.

It's not about fashion.
 
Standard sized toms were also available 20 years ago,as well as since the 40's,up to and including today.Power toms were drum fashion,with power tom sizes STILL available from drum makers as well as from shell manufacturers.

The consept of the virgin bass drum is also nothing new,as toms were mounted on bass drums using clamps ,since the mid 30's.Now we're just using clamps to mount them to racks and cymbal stands.

The consept of virgin bass drums being better sonicly is again,more drum re- fashion than actually decernable.I'd love to hear a blind comparison test of a virgin drum and one that has mounts attached.

It is in truth , more style than actual substance.

As far as flat toms,just as one example,Emmanule Cappalette has superb posture while playing,and nothing is flat about her set up at all.The same can be said for Simon Phillips.Just watch him play .He uses 24" bass drums and deep toms,and has excellent posture.He also dosen't seem to have to struggle to play his kit at all considering he's only around 5'6".

Posture is all about there you sit,in relation to your set up,and keeping your back stright and not reaching for everything.The whole powertom angleing thing was more about looks and using 14x13 and 15x14 and even larger toms with 24-26 ' bass drums.

I had a 12/13 power toms set up and a 22" bass drum.No Mickey Mouse ear angles were necessary.

No matter what set up you use,if you sit too high or too low,and don't have everything is easy reach......you'll have problems that smaller bass drums and flat toms can't cure.

I disagree and I still contend flat tom set ups are drum fashion,and will go the way of Chinese toms.

I'll also go a step further and say the vast majority of drummers play their kits set up since the way the've been set up since the 40's,and setting up with flat toms is greatly limited to younger players only.

If you like flat toms,then hey,what ever blows your hair back,but better for posture and more ergonomic? Horsey turd.Bangs and the foward comb are as big as they were in the 60's too..:)


Steve B

I wouldn't doubt that some people's "flat everything" setups happened with their first kit purchase because they saw someone else setting up that way....such as Travis Barker.

There's also the point that the idea of "flat" that you and I are imagining may not be the same.

I know my setup evolved with far less angles because I went from the 9 piece double bass kit with power toms (going from 10 to 18) that I played since the early 90s to a 5 piece kit with what are now standard "fusion" sizes. I also did my actual physical growing up in my teens on that power tom kit, so by the time I bought the Spaun I was already well aware that I had gone from being 5"7" to 6'2" and did not need to sit low with a wall of tubs at eye level. so I raised my seat a few inches and it was like I was gifted with enlightenment that day. Sitting higher made me feel far more in control.

I still liked having the two toms up top offset to the left like I would on a double bass kit, and with the new seat height it was just ergonomically natural to lower the toms a bit and angle them much less. The benefit of being able to use the same downstroke on your toms as you do with the snare is impressive.

yadda yadda....point is......yes....a lot of kit "fads" come about because of specific players influencing drums that are used (ahem...piccolo snares in the 90s.)or the way they are setup. But some of them evolve, or come back on the cyclical wheel for very practical reasons. For this one, I peg it to far more kits without bass drum mounts, and the exploding sale of "fusion" sized toms.
 
If I could do something that I though "looked cool" on my kit, it would be to use a rail mount.
I love how those look, but it puts the tom in a spot that isn't as comfortable for me.
For "looks", I'd probably have more angle on my tom, but it just doesn't feel right when I sit and play it.
 
I Guess it depends on the style of each drummer and genres they're into. Me for example, angle the toms similar kollias's set up (although I have a very small set up).

I Do enjoy flattening toms while playing classics like, AC/DC, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath etc,.
 
As far as flat toms,just as one example,Emmanule Cappalette has superb posture while playing,and nothing is flat about her set up at all.The same can be said for Simon Phillips.Just watch him play .He uses 24" bass drums and deep toms,and has excellent posture.He also dosen't seem to have to struggle to play his kit at all considering he's only around 5'6".

Given Simon has had back problems, I wouldn't say he's a great example.

There are plenty of drummers who set up in all sorts of ways who ended up with physical issues. Even Weckl, whom many drummers look at great technique has all sort of physical issues.

What works for one person may not work for another, flat or not.


I disagree and I still contend flat tom set ups are drum fashion,and will go the way of Chinese toms.

marching drummers disagree:
DV020_Jpg_Jumbo_491892_R.jpg


Oh which, I only bring up, because I've heard some drummers say they like flat drum set ups because that's how they learned to play in marching band.
 
I put my rack toms at an angle, very similar to Lars Ulrich's current kit, because if they were flat it would be too tall for me. Though my floor tom is flat and same level as my snare. My crash and ride are slightly angle to me(around 10-20 degrees I believe)
 
i like my toms flat just because with a flatter angle i get better rebound and can play faster. I never once set my drums up to match another drummers set. or to look "cool" or in style.

The longer ive been playing my drums have gotten slowly lower and flatter and its been gradual but even my cymbals have gotten lower and closer.. it makes sense playing metal to have everything very close and not have to reach.

when flat toms are "out of style" I will continue with them being flat.

if i had a 4 piece kit it would be a piece of cake.. with a 7 piece its a bit harder right over the kick..

my last kit was a 10 piece with 2 22 inch kick drums. all very large toms.. i will never go that route again. it looked great but was a pain for shows. (id only take half even)

smaller drums are just more practical. its nicer to haul gear. they sound great. cost less (sometimes) so if this is a fad, consider me a hipster for life
 
I don't have mine completely flat, but a slight angle towards me. Just enough so I can come down on it without a rim-shot. I also keep them a few inches higher than my snare.

I see great benefit to having toms flatter. When you strike the drum, the sound bonuses out from the heads, right?
So if your toms are angled facing you too much, the sound bounces back into your fact and will thus be louder for you, but not the rest of the band or audience.
By having your toms flatter the sound projects out more, and not all up in your face.

If I use only one rack tom, I also keep it on a stand, not a fan of the snare basket thing. I found that having the tom in a basket chokes the sound a little.
Also, I like having my tom over the kick a little, so a snare stand wouldn't work.
 
This aspect of drum fashion will pass,just as deep bass drums are beginning to disapear,in favor of shallower ,punchier 14 and 12" deep bass drums.

Not many of the 12" deep out there, I've only seen a handful of 12" deep, my Camcos in my avatar and a couple of Slingerlands all from the 50's and 60's. Aside from the Gurus that we've all been drooling over I haven't heard of anyone else is doing them that shallow.
Who else is making them that shallow these days?
 
While something about flat toms is aesthetically pleasing, I can't play well like that. I also don't have the best technique, so....
 
Not many of the 12" deep out there, I've only seen a handful of 12" deep, my Camcos in my avatar and a couple of Slingerlands all from the 50's and 60's. Aside from the Gurus that we've all been drooling over I haven't heard of anyone else is doing them that shallow.
Who else is making them that shallow these days?

Mostly 14" ,but 12" is just starting to catch on.Maybe not so much on this forum,but on the DFO and VDF,they certainly are.Forum members are starting to collect and play vintage Slingerland and Ludwig 12x20 and 12x22 bass drums.

Steve B
 
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DrumeatDrum....First of all,how can you be absolutely certain, that Simon Phillips has back problems that are directly caused by playing drums?How can you also directly attreibute it to his set up?If he in fact has back problems,he clearly dosen't show it.

Clearly ,speculation.

Secondly,we're talking about drum SET,and not marching drums .The topic is flattening toms,using a drum KIT,not timp toms, tenor drums or marching snares.More that a few drum corps timp tom quad set up drummers DO have back problems.This isn't on topic really is it?

Thirdly,how does anyone know,that years down the road,that drummers that set up their kits with flat ,and low toms,won't have physical issues either?

Apples and oranges.I still say drum fashion.

Lets turn the clock back to illustrate my position a bit more clearly.

February 9,1964.The Beatles played live on the Ed sullivan show,and 73 MILLION people watched Ringo Starr,playind his Ludwig oyster black pearl drums.That was the date ,that millions of kids decided to play drums,and most of them wanted LUDWIG drums.So much so that Ludwig was producing over 100 sets a day and running 24 hours a day,6 days a week,and STILL not keeping up with demand.DRUM FASHION.

Ludwig drums,THEMSELVES were drum fashion,for most of the 60's and early 70's.The Ludwig speed king pedal,was also drum fashion.No matter what kit you played,most drummers were using a speed king.Ludwig drums from that era are sought after and collectable,because of the time period,and because their sound.See...DRUM FASHION.....GOOD thing.

That's what I'm talking about.It's not a personal attack,it's and educated observation.It's not about right and wrong.......it just is.

When someone set their kit up with flat toms,somebody saw it,and copied it,and then,somebody else copied it,and then........you get the picture now?If you set up that way,and it works for you...after having tried other set ups,then do what's best for you.If you're doing it because it just looks cool and hip,but playing that way really dosen't ring your bell....then screw cool,change it up.

Just like Ringo and his Ludwigs,started a huge drum fashion thing for Ludwig.It's not a bad thing....but it just IS.Period.

Steve B
 
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i like my toms flat just because with a flatter angle i get better rebound and can play faster. I never once set my drums up to match another drummers set. or to look "cool" or in style.

The longer ive been playing my drums have gotten slowly lower and flatter and its been gradual but even my cymbals have gotten lower and closer.. it makes sense playing metal to have everything very close and not have to reach.

when flat toms are "out of style" I will continue with them being flat.

if i had a 4 piece kit it would be a piece of cake.. with a 7 piece its a bit harder right over the kick..

my last kit was a 10 piece with 2 22 inch kick drums. all very large toms.. i will never go that route again. it looked great but was a pain for shows. (id only take half even)

smaller drums are just more practical. its nicer to haul gear. they sound great. cost less (sometimes) so if this is a fad, consider me a hipster for life

Who said smaller drums are a fad?They've been around for quite a while.

Steve B
 
I don't have mine completely flat, but a slight angle towards me. Just enough so I can come down on it without a rim-shot. I also keep them a few inches higher than my snare.

I see great benefit to having toms flatter. When you strike the drum, the sound bonuses out from the heads, right?
So if your toms are angled facing you too much, the sound bounces back into your fact and will thus be louder for you, but not the rest of the band or audience.
By having your toms flatter the sound projects out more, and not all up in your face.

If I use only one rack tom, I also keep it on a stand, not a fan of the snare basket thing. I found that having the tom in a basket chokes the sound a little.
Also, I like having my tom over the kick a little, so a snare stand wouldn't work.

Projection I think is more a product of drum construction,bearing edge cut,tuning,drum head selection and....the drummer.

Steve B
 
I do try and keep my toms fairly flat and def my snare but whatever the gig or kit I'm using dictates that as well. I like to do different setups. I must say though I love to watch Mike Bordin beat the crap out of his Yamaha kit
 
I don't set my high toms flat. I set them 6" higher than my snare and I angle them slightly to avoid clipping a rim when I don't want to.
I need to tilt my high toms down towards me a bit because I tilt my snare slightly down away from me so that the highest part of my snare hoop in nearest to me.
This is the best ergonomic way that I have found to play.
 

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You could say "drum fashion" - or you could say "changing things up a little every once in a while keeps things fresh".

My preference is - like many others have - to have everything slightly tilted towards me, both cymbals and drums. No need to reach or get awkward, everything is accessible and comfortable. Easy to play at all dynamic levels.

I have my rack tom on a snare stand - not because it's cool, but because the bass drum has been broken and re-glued and I don't want to stress the drum. It looks cool, yes, in a way. But so does a mounted tom.

Do I see stuff on the net and get ideas? Yes. I might even try some new things because I'm curious, just to see how it feels. But at the end of the day I set up my drums the way they feel the most natural to me.

It's not about fashion.

Varying your set up to change things up isn't drum fashion.But the current flat tom thing is.Lots of younger players are copying each others set up,....not all,but some,just as a Ludwig double bass set was the rage in the late 60's early 70's.



Steve B
 
DrumeatDrum....First of all,how can you be absolutely certain, that Simon Phillips has back problems that are directly caused by playing drums?How can you also directly attreibute it to his set up?If he in fact has back problems,he clearly dosen't show it.

Clearly ,speculation.
http://purplehazeproductions.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83&Itemid=153

Well, he once missed a tour over back problems
The "Tambu Tour" proved to be another success, although there were no North American dates. Simon Phillips suffered from a back problem, so Gregg Bissonette had to fill in for him during the first leg of the tour in late 1995.
I've read elsewhere that it was a result of sitting too low. But where, I don't recall.

Secondly,we're talking about drum SET,and not marching drums .The topic is flattening toms,using a drum KIT,not timp toms, tenor drums or marching snares.More that a few drum corps timp tom quad set up drummers DO have back problems.This isn't on topic really is it?
I made it quite clear it IS one topic.

I said:
"I only bring up, because I've heard some drummers say they like flat drum set ups because that's how they learned to play in marching band."


How is that NOT on topic of drum set?


Thirdly,how does anyone know,that years down the road,that drummers that set up their kits with flat ,and low toms,won't have physical issues either?
I can't. Neither you can prove a flat set up will lead to physical issues.

Clearly ,speculation, on your part.


When someone set their kit up with flat toms,somebody saw it,and copied it,and then,somebody else copied it,and then........you get the picture now?If you set up that way,and it works for you...after having tried other set ups,then do what's best for you.If you're doing it because it just looks cool and hip,but playing that way really dosen't ring your bell....then screw cool,change it up.

In the same token, When someone set their kit up with angled toms,somebody saw it,and copied it,and then,somebody else copied it,and then......
 
http://purplehazeproductions.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83&Itemid=153

Well, he once missed a tour over back problems
I've read elsewhere that it was a result of sitting too low. But where, I don't recall.


I made it quite clear it IS one topic.

I said:
"I only bring up, because I've heard some drummers say they like flat drum set ups because that's how they learned to play in marching band."


How is that NOT on topic of drum set?



I can't. Neither you can prove a flat set up will lead to physical issues.

Clearly ,speculation, on your part.




In the same token, When someone set their kit up with angled toms,somebody saw it,and copied it,and then,somebody else copied it,and then......

EXACTLY,and by doing so,create a "fashion",just like the first guy to wear a tie die shirt in the late 60's.And after a time,when enough people do the same thing,or wear the same type of cloths...it becomes.......wait for it........FASHION.

And what else happen with anything that is in fashion?Eventually,it will no longer be in fashion.

Why are some people so afraid of that word?

I clearly said that "How does anyone know that drummers won't have physical issues" reguarding a flat set up.This indicated that I don't know,nor do I speculate that it will..


Steve B
 
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