Should I Quit Band Due to Constant Critiques By Singer?

8Mile said:
I realize this falls under the "may work for one person but not another" umbrella, but I think it's appropriate to speak up when you're being given confusing or unclear directions. Not in a confrontational way, but to communicate that the terms you're hearing are telling you something specific that doesn't seem to match what is expected.

I did a recording session for a really talented multi-instrumentalist and songwriter a few years ago. He was trying to tell me how to play this bridge. It was a heavily-arranged rock piece with acoustic and electric guitars at a modest tempo with a syncopated, 8th-note groove. But when the artist tried to tell me how to play the drums during the bridge, he said, "when we get to this part, we're swinging."

I played a couple bars of swing—think Art Blakey—and just said, "See, what that means to me is this, and I'm pretty sure that's not what you want. I'm thinking you mean the drums are very driving and steady here." Which did turn out to be what he wanted.

It's a fine line. I'm supportive, but I'm not taking any sh**. If you tell me to do something using terms that have an accepted definition and I do them, I have no problem adjusting and figuring out that you meant something else. But I'm not going to be treated like I'm just not getting it when it's the other person who's confused.
Click to expand...

THIS. Outside of a few deeply theory-trained folks, I have become accustomed to coaching folks when they give me direction. What's important to note is if you have to have the same clarifying conversation over and over again.

More to the OP's point, it sounds like the course of the band has changed since you started it, and if it's not the direction in which you particularly wish to go, I'd say make a graceful exit.
 
PorkPieGuy said:
This made me think about a time when I saw something on VH1 when some retro act starting touring again. Basically, the word on the street was they were getting paid enough to pretend like they like each other. :)

I'll bet there's more than one band out there like this.
Click to expand...

Just ask Mick & Keith! :O
 
I dunno, sounds like your foot is out the door...and not fun.....but at the same time why not speak up, confront and air it all. It doesn't have to be ugly. You're mature adults, have a discussion, she should hear how it is for you, and how she has been acting. Reverse some of the 'constructive criticism' on to her. How 'rat tat tat ' is not a musical term for any drummer to understand.

Yes she might not see any fault of hers at all, and if so, you just drop the bomb in person and say you're done. Re-naming the bad after her though, that was not a good sign.
 
It could just be a communication issue. You could just be speaking a different language.

I've taken to ask people who can't actually speak music to at least reference some song if they're trying to suggest a part or a general feel that they can't articulate.

Helps get people in the same page quickly. I once worked with a guy who would call a shuffle, but to him that meant ANY blues. If I could at least get him to say "like 'sweet home chicago' " or "like 'stormy Monday' " helps a bunch, or "give it a Motown feel".
 
Yes, yes, yes...but there's the all important point being missed.

This singer person.

Is she hot?
 
JustJames said:
Yes, yes, yes...but there's the all important point being missed.

This singer person.

Is she hot?
Click to expand...

What kind of stupid question is that? If it's a warm day and there's no air conditioning, I assume so.
 
You might try telling her how to sing. OR just throw a stick at the back of her head.
As for the bass player, tell him "Hey....you're no Entwistle."
 
Last edited:
fpmr96a said:
That's certainly one option I'm considering. However, since I'm in another good band and being recruited by 2 others now, I'm thinking it's not worth all the trouble.
Click to expand...

Then a new question: Why did you even bring this up? If you know what you're gonna do, then there's no need to have a discussion on it.
 
Bo Eder said:
Then a new question: Why did you even bring this up? If you know what you're gonna do, then there's no need to have a discussion on it.
Click to expand...

I love her originals more than any music I'm playing elsewhere. If I quit, I'll likely still practice on my own playing her songs.
 
Here’s another possible scenario:

She already writes the bands good stuff and already has billing. That means she will go solo in at least a bit, or at most after 1 album or tour. So enjoy the ride for now, as long as she doesnt completely run over you.
 
Just ask her for a recording of the other drummer playing the songs. From what I gather, she wants the other guy anyway. I'd tell her "the critiquing will be in the beginning and after the song is established, the critiquing stops. I'm the band leader who put the band together and we're here to have fun, not to be critiquing all the time."
 
fpmr96a said:
My apprehension is that the singers originals are excellent and this may be the best band I've ever played in. My other band is very good (and gigging) but the music is not as advanced or as good a fit for my style.
Click to expand...

These are excellent reasons to at least TRY to communicate your feelings to her. Start with the positives (the music is fantastic, the songs are truly great, it's the best band ever, she is a great talent, etc.), and then move in to the criticism issue. It's tough to react positively to a single critique, when there have already been many critiques in the past. Ask her the most important question: how can the two of you bridge this gap in communication? Someone suggested a recording of her drummer friend. An in person demonstration or meeting could work as well. Of course, if she's the one to suggest it, it has a better chance of working out.

At least make this effort. If it doesn't pan out, you know you tried everything, and can move on without looking back.
 
I think you have to deal with the heart of the matter which is her and the other drummer were together before she joined and wants him over you. Discuss the root of it all with everyone.
 
rebonn said:
Just ask her for a recording of the other drummer playing the songs. From what I gather, she wants the other guy anyway. I'd tell her "the critiquing will be in the beginning and after the song is established, the critiquing stops. I'm the band leader who put the band together and we're here to have fun, not to be critiquing all the time."
Click to expand...

I think you're right, that she wants the other drummer. I do have recordings and have played some things like the recording, but we're not doing that for any covers. She only critiques when we're playing her originals - never covers.

The other drummer is a female and actually very good as well as her best friend. (I think more than friends, but that's another issue...)
 
fpmr96a said:
I think you're right, that she wants the other drummer. I do have recordings and have played some things like the recording, but we're not doing that for any covers. She only critiques when we're playing her originals - never covers.

The other drummer is a female and actually very good as well as her best friend. (I think more than friends, but that's another issue...)
Click to expand...

And there you have it, if you'd mentioned this earlier it could have saved a lot of thought from your fellow members.
I don't have a solution, tbh the moment you named the band after her you lost control and it stopped being "your" band.
Be nice, see if there's a bridge that can be built, I'll bet that you'll end up walking away though :-(
 
Woolwich said:
And there you have it, if you'd mentioned this earlier it could have saved a lot of thought from your fellow members.
I don't have a solution, tbh the moment you named the band after her you lost control and it stopped being "your" band.
Be nice, see if there's a bridge that can be built, I'll bet that you'll end up walking away though :-(
Click to expand...

Probably accurate observations ...

I don't have any proof about the "more than friends" thing. Just a theory I've not discussed with anyone.

The reason why I didn't balk at naming the band after her was that half our song list is her own originals written by her. It's fair ...

I've been going week-to-week for a month about quitting, constantly giving it one more week. But, the same thing happens each week. The only thing keeping me is that I really do love her originals. That's the only thing ...

I'm going to practice all of her songs this weekend and really try to play like the recordings. If I make a lot of progress and she starts the critiquing, I'm going to pull her aside after the next rehearsal and suggest we come up with a better way of communicating.

My best guess is that one of these weeks she's going to push me over the edge and I'm going to blow my top. I am trying very hard to avoid that because I'd like to play with the other members in the future, perhaps in different bands.
 
What kind of things are you doing that she doesn't like? Are you just intentionally not playing things like she has recorded? If there's recordings then you literally know exactly how she wants it and it shouldn't be that hard to replicate. If you have musical reasons to not do what she's asking for, you should ask both yourself and her if your reasons are valid or if it's better as previously written.

Singers often use the dominant rhythms from the music to guide how they enunciate words and flow their vocals into the song... When we change those major rhythms up even slightly, even if it fits the song, it can still affect how the singer is delivering the vocals.
 
Dr_Watso said:
What kind of things are you doing that she doesn't like? Are you just intentionally not playing things like she has recorded? If there's recordings then you literally know exactly how she wants it and it shouldn't be that hard to replicate. If you have musical reasons to not do what she's asking for, you should ask both yourself and her if your reasons are valid or if it's better as previously written.

Singers often use the dominant rhythms from the music to guide how they enunciate words and flow their vocals into the song... When we change those major rhythms up even slightly, even if it fits the song, it can still affect how the singer is delivering the vocals.
Click to expand...

I've practiced with her recordings quite a bit and have tried to play similarly. They have lots of breaks in unexpected places and I've not memorized them all, but neither has the rest of the band. However, I think I'm playing her songs pretty well, overall. I prefer to play as I feel it, but really have tried to conform. If I'm off from the groove, as recorded, it's not anything major. She seems to intervene on very specific parts and have something very specific in mind that she's not articulating clearly. I don't claim to be better than her prior drummer, but I think I'm as good.
 
I’ve found that either there is a chemistry or there isn’t. With some people you can do no right. That is not to say that you can’t do your best to give them what they want, and that you can’t try talking to them. I have tried both of those things over the years. And being able to talk and communicate and not throw the baby out with the bathwater is certainly and important skill.

But when something is right and feels good, you know it does. In our current band, I get a lot of compliments from our singer and other players, and obviously that feels great. It feels a lot better than somebody constantly critiquing you who has a drummer buddy who could step in, and who has just had the band named after them. And from what I’ve seen people tend to go with the singer as it’s a lot easier to replace a drummer than the singer.

I’m really glad to be playing a great band with people I like being around with really great musicianship. And gigs too. When it’s right, you know it’s right.

However, I have also had a terrible experience of playing in a band a decade ago where there was a bad chemistry between myself andthe leader. I would go so far as to say that the leader was a complete asshole. There was no winning. I know I played great the last gig, and other members told me so, and yet I was still called by the leader and let go the next day. There was no winning with this person.

If I have any regret it’s that I did not quit sooner before actually getting fired. To actually leave when I had a shred of dignity left.

I’m not equating your situation to my experience 10 years ago, but I just think that if something is not right and you’re doing your best to fix it it may not be because of you and may not be fixable. That no matter what you do this singer will ask you for a different kind of Ratatat Tat.

If you think it’s worth it I would still have the conversation with her. Good luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top