My horrible Ludwig experience...

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RickP said:
keep it simple said:
Rick - gotta say, that's possibly the worst drum photo composition I've ever seen. The colour palate clash between drum wrap & carpet is bad enough, but then the bare feet! ;) ;) ;)


I know, I know was in a hurry to take the picture with my iPad so that I could reply to the OP.
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You still haven't answered if you were TOTALLY nude when you took it! ;)
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Re: My horrible Ludwig experience..

Dre25 said:
It's a shame because it's a really nice looking snare, I love the colour, those lugs and if it were up to me I think the blue/olive badge is nice against white.

And you really like the sound... You could give them one more chance to send you a perfect example but you have every right to be a bit anti-ludwig now.
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It is really nice looking. I love the white cortex. Not that many fans of white out there.
I originally wanted a pointy B&O badge to match my other drums. But when the first (mis-ordered) snare came in, I realized you can't get pointy any more. So I changed the order for the re-order to have a Legacy badge. It's not a 70s drum, so I thought it should look like what it is... But now, I find that I'm kinda liking that B&O badge again.

But see... I'm not anti-Ludwig. I really love their drums, always have. I didn't want this to happen, and to be complaining about this drum in the forum. But the fact is that's what they sent me. They started it, and now it's up to me to see if I can effect how it all ends. Talk to me in a few weeks (hopefully not months!)... once this is resolved, and we'll see if I'm pro- or anti- then.

steadypocket said:
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I'd heard that Ludwig was doing better on quality control. I had similar problems on a new Keystone kit I purchased a couple years back. The snare also had a crooked butt plate and I experienced the same thing with head tunings--some tension rods tightened down with others not even finger tight. Those were minor compared to other probs. I was glad to find a buyer for that kit and will never consider purchasing a Ludwig product given my experience. Such a shame given the company's storied legacy (pun intended).
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Wow. Really sorry to hear of your problems with Ludwig. Sorry it didn't turn out better. But again, they started it. You did the same as me: ordered Ludwig expecting quality. But received something else. I hope my experience turns out more favorably. I don't wanna be a Ludwig hater!
 
BGH said:
This is 100% what I would do. Similarly, I had Precision Drum craft a 10" to match my 3ply 1966 Ludwig kit. This drum is perfectly built. I bought Ludwig hardware on eBay, sent them 1 lug and my measurements and they drilled flawlessly. The wrap is done fully glued and right to the edges. Its not rocket science.

I would get my money back. Bill at Pork Pie might be willing to do something similar, use Ludwig hardware and build you an exact copy. White wrap is easy to come by. He will make sure you get a perfect drum!
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And it might even cost me less! Certainly that's a possibility. I'm going to see how returning to Ludwig works out. That's still my first choice. A custom drum might actually be a "better" drum, but what can I say? I really want a Ludwig.
 
Road Bull said:
No need to pay good money for a hack job. In some ways it is just a sloppy third-rate attempt to fill an order. But, at some level, I would begin to take personal offense to someone trying to pass off this hack job as a something to be paid for, and worse, a special order of a high-end snare.

I would take it back to the store right away and politely explain why you need your money back and that they can give you a call when they have the snare that you ordered. And I would politely ask what they can do to make the situation right. Be polite, but firm in your expectations.

I would agree with others here saying to take it back to where you purchased it. Let them own part of the problem. But document who you talk to, and what they say, and when they say they can get the real drum you ordered back to you.

I would also send a run-down of the situation to Ludwig with pics. Tell them that you and your on-line drum community are interested in seeing how this plays out. I would explain that I know that mistakes happen, but the true measure of a company is how it corrects those mistakes and learns from it.

Good luck brother!
Keep us posted.
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All very good advice. Thanks for the input. Especially agree with your comment about taking personal offense. I'm always straight in my dealings with everyone, being brought up that way and a bit old-fashioned about it. Like I said before, I take it as a point of pride to always do my best on any job I take on, even to the point of losing time and money to make it right. So, yeah, I do find it a bit offensive and insulting to feel like I'm being taken for a ride in a situation like this.
 
zarrdoss said:
Its stories like this and the one I had with my Brick snare de-laminating just after a few months, I know its a cheap China made but they still put their name on it, I will stick with what Ludwig does best. Their steel snares, Your not ordering a pizza here, try and get it right.
Sorry for your trouble you are having.
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Or a Supra. Mine is a few years old and was/is flawless. That's quality. (Except for the P-85, which I replaced with a Millennium.)
 
KarlCrafton said:
Unacceptable.
What probably happened is, someone found out about the screw up on the order, and the time, and they "rushed one out".
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I think you are probably right, Karl.

I've stated before that this hasn't been my experience with Ludwig quality, but NO WAY would I accept something like this. Lugs being drilled in off positions? A crooked butt plate? Bad edges on a LEGACY FLAGSHIP DRUM someone is paying $600 for (list price must be way higher)? The badge being wrong on the order is the icing on the cake too. They should have had an order pick ticket with all the info on it with the shell having their SKU numbers on it.
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Again, probably right. The rep said there was some "internal" mistake. Maybe they lost the original order ticket?

My old Black Cortex 3ply bass drum has the wrap to the edge. I don't know what their policy on cutting back wrap is, but Cortex and the Glass finishes are thicker, so they may just be playing it safe by knocking it back these days. When I had my older Ludwig shells re-wrapped with Black Glass Glitter, it is cut back because it's a lot thicker. Ludwig did not do my re-wrap though. Is this drums finish Cortex, or just White wrap?
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Definitely looks like real cortex to me. Even shows a bit of chipping all along the cut edges, just like cortex. That was my original thought, to leave clearance so the heads don't bind on the shell. But of course the 70s drums were a larger diameter. On this drum there is PLENTY of clearance between the shell and the head collar, so if that is indeed why they did it like that, it wasn't necessary, and it certainly doesn't look as good as having the wrap finished nicely right up the the edge.

I would send a message to Ludwig about this. I'd even send Kevin Packard a FB message about this experience. This is the kind of thing they don't want, and they need to know. Guy's like him are the face of Ludwig out there now, and when I have talked and corresponded with him, he seemed pretty dang sincere about the company wanting GREAT stuff out there, and NOT having things like this "slip through the cracks".
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Thanks for the name. Monday morning I'll be talking to the people from the shop, the local rep, and Kevin. I hope you're right.

This situation blows, and I am sorry to hear about it.
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Absolutely. But I have high hopes it will turn out right.
 
Well, they say 'third times a charm,' so hopefully it will work out for you this time.

Here's what I don't get: why do we hear so many stories like this concerning Ludwig and DW? And, why are guys saying 'QC is supposed to be getting better?' Why is it so bad to start with? We don't hear such frequent horror stories concerning Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, et al. And, its not brand detractors bashing these makers. Its loyal fans trying to buy the drums of their dreams, only to be disappointed. What gives? One thing is for certain; I won't ever order a new kit or wood shell snare from either Ludwig or DW, although I own drums made by both.
 
BGH said:
Well, they say 'third times a charm,' so hopefully it will work out for you this time.

Here's what I don't get: why do we hear so many stories like this concerning Ludwig and DW? And, why are guys saying 'QC is supposed to be getting better?' Why is it so bad to start with? We don't hear such frequent horror stories concerning Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, et al. And, its not brand detractors bashing these makers. Its loyal fans trying to buy the drums of their dreams, only to be disappointed. What gives? One thing is for certain; I won't ever order a new kit or wood shell snare from either Ludwig or DW, although I own drums made by both.
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All good questions. Makes you want to just buy vintage, and locally. You can see exactly what you are getting when you buy it.
 
BGH said:
Well, they say 'third times a charm,' so hopefully it will work out for you this time.

Here's what I don't get: why do we hear so many stories like this concerning Ludwig and DW? And, why are guys saying 'QC is supposed to be getting better?' Why is it so bad to start with? We don't hear such frequent horror stories concerning Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, et al. And, its not brand detractors bashing these makers. Its loyal fans trying to buy the drums of their dreams, only to be disappointed. What gives? One thing is for certain; I won't ever order a new kit or wood shell snare from either Ludwig or DW, although I own drums made by both.
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That's a good point. Bizarre that the "holy grail" manufacturers like Ludwig and DW are getting the majority of these kinds of stories. I don't know if I've ever heard of things like this happening with the other companies you mention, though I have heard that Tama has pretty slow service. Anyways, you'd think that the guys with a huge brand cache would have the customer service to back it up.
 
I suppose I got lucky with my Classic Maple a few years ago.

Then again, I was just buying an in-stock kit; nothing custom. But my kit was absolutely flawless. Keeping in mind the issues that I had heard (after I placed my order of course) I checked the bearing edges and everything. Again, not an issue. It's an amazing kit.

As many things as I've heard about Ludwig's QC, I've never heard anything bad about their customer service. I'm sure if you contact them and show them your pictures, they will make it right.

Good luck.
 
BGH said:
We don't hear such frequent horror stories concerning Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, et al. And, its not brand detractors bashing these makers. Its loyal fans trying to buy the drums of their dreams, only to be disappointed. What gives? One thing is for certain; I won't ever order a new kit or wood shell snare from either Ludwig or DW, although I own drums made by both.
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I have friends who own and manage drum shops and I can tell you that those same stories are told about the other manufacturers. For whatever reason, they just don't seem to get posted about on Drummerworld.

It's really hard to draw conclusions from posts on drum forums. Not all drummers talk about their drum purchases on forums. It takes a certain kind of enthusiast to participate in online communities and talk about their gear. Ludwig, in particular, is favored by drummers who have a nostalgic connection to the company's past. Judging by forums, you'd think Ludwig outsold all the other brands combined. I doubt that's the case, but it seems like it on the internet. I think factors like these skew the data a bit. I'm not sure that what you read on forums like this is a good scientific sample representing the experiences of most drum owners.

Regardless, to the OP, what a crappy experience. I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction. It's a real punch in the gut to want something so bad for so long and to spend that kind of money only to be disappointed. I have a feeling this will get taken care of.
 
Ludwig indeed holds close to many drummers hearts . It was my first kit as a kid, though I do not play them now .

Though Ludwig definately had some questionable yrs w/ QC standards, I also have heard that its been improved upon.
Have two friends w/ their own past quality issues re: Ludwig purchases, so you arent alone. Wraps not fully secured in one kit... another kit had some crazy bearing edges that were totally unacceptable to my other friend

Im sorry you had these problems and with the choices in todays market, you have every right to expect a perfect drum.
 
8Mile said:
I have friends who own and manage drum shops and I can tell you that those same stories are told about the other manufacturers. For whatever reason, they just don't seem to get posted about on Drummerworld.

It's really hard to draw conclusions from posts on drum forums. Not all drummers talk about their drum purchases on forums. It takes a certain kind of enthusiast to participate in online communities and talk about their gear. Ludwig, in particular, is favored by drummers who have a nostalgic connection to the company's past. Judging by forums, you'd think Ludwig outsold all the other brands combined. I doubt that's the case, but it seems like it on the internet. I think factors like these skew the data a bit. I'm not sure that what you read on forums like this is a good scientific sample representing the experiences of most drum owners.
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Excellent point !!!



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8Mile said:
I have friends who own and manage drum shops and I can tell you that those same stories are told about the other manufacturers. For whatever reason, they just don't seem to get posted about on Drummerworld.
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Some companies are sacred cows. As such, people either don't say anything bad, ever, and others feel it's their job to call out a company wherever possible. By no means am I saying that's the case here, there is obviously a legit problem. But the perception is skewed as to how many problems one company has compared to the others. Indeed, they all have problems, and some are quite chronic in terms of hardware for example, yet you don't hear much about them. But this is not a ddrum thread, so let's not single them out. :)

I've been a Ludwig owner/player since my first lesson in 1965, and I love the products and have a soft spot for the company. I am often so linked with the product, most drummers are surprised to learn that I've only actually endorsed them since 2006. I'm the first to agree that have been some pretty egregious issues and shortsightedness in the way Ludwig has done certain things in their history, and I know that their QC had been an issue recently. Even as an artist, where you'd think they'd take extra care, I have encountered a few problems.

In the last two years in particular, Ludwig has made concerted efforts to reduce QC problems, and to improve resovlving them when they would inevitably occur. It's surprising and troubling that a snare with thsese problems could slip through at this point in time, and I don't defend Ludwig on it. But, it's not indicative of the kind of work they normally do, or strive for. They take QC very seriously, and this is just one of those unfortunate anomalies.

Bermuda
 
Yeah, I agree with all of this. I really don't like complaining and I'm very conscious of how some stories get blown out of proportion, especially with a big name like Ludwig. That's why I try to keep everything to the facts, other than saying how disappointed I am. This isn't someone else's story, this has happened to me now, so yeah, I am very disappointed. But I'm going to be very happy and supportive of Ludwig if they take care of me.
 
Wow. I'm happy to report that a squeaky wheel does indeed get the grease!

I emailed the local Ludwig rep this morning, he talked to the VP, and I just got off the phone with the head of QC. They are stepping up very quickly to get me a replacement. Thanks Ludwig!

Thanks for all your advice, guys. I will let you know how this turns out.
 
criz p. critter said:
Wow. I'm happy to report that a squeaky wheel does indeed get the grease!

I emailed the local Ludwig rep this morning, he talked to the VP, and I just got off the phone with the head of QC. They are stepping up very quickly to get me a replacement. Thanks Ludwig!

Thanks for all your advice, guys. I will let you know how this turns out.
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That's most gratifying to hear :)
 
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