Remo Emperor vs Remo Ambassador Heads

I completely disagree, and so would Simon Phillips, Jeff Porcaro, Phil Collins, Manu Katche, and about a million other world class drummers.

Yeah but are we talking what the naked ear hears or what we hear when their kits are mic'd going through EQ's and processors? Trust me changing from a 1 ply Ambo to a 2 ply Emp on the 16" FT of my X7 was a huuuuge change in tone. Not to mention when a Pinstripe is on it. Now whether or not that has to do with shell difference is unknown but I'd still venture to say not really. Common sense and logic tells you that a thicker head will sound deeper. It goes for everything material wise, like for example hearing more through thin walls vs a thicker wall and what ever else you can think of.
 
So here's the main question (s), if I were to switch from my Coated Amb.s to Clear or Coated Emp.s what would I immediately notice? I.E. Would lower tunings come easier? Would I get any extra pitch bend from using Clear Amb. resos? Would higher tunings sound less piecing? Would it maybe work best to only use Emp.s on the 13" and 16" since they seem to be the most difficult? How much quieter would they be? Clear or Coated?

I don't have lots of money to try out a lot of heads so I wanna try to make a decision I can live with for another year.

IMO what you would immediately notice is the feel and sound difference especially without ear plugs or muffs on. To put it in a way you can visualize the thin coated Ambo is like a single sheet of paper, the coated Emp or thicker would be like hitting 4 or 5 sheets of paper stacked on each other. If you want, you can go try that effect yourself. Hitting on one sheet of paper on a hard surface is going to feel thin and brittle, hitting on a stack of papers is going to feel thick and dense. As for lower tuning coming easier, well I don't know about easier but the tone will be deeper at lower tension compared to the single ply. As for pitch bend, I believe that's more so tuning of the heads and not thickness. Also yes because the heads are two ply it won't be as open as a single ply so you won't be able to go too high in the tuning ranges even with an 8" tom. Ideally it would be best to go single ply on toms smaller than 13" and then two ply on anything bigger to give the drums an incredible melodic difference in pitch going from the highest to lowest. Though because single ply tends to wear faster and go out of tune sooner most of us go with 2 ply on batters all around, even for snare drums. As for being quieter, well clear heads are going to be more open than coated single ply or more and have distinct differences in sound and feel. That said yes a 2 ply coated will be a bit deeper and more mellow compared to a more "open" single ply coated. It's all the same with each type of head, sound and feel. The thinner it is the more brittle it feels, the thicker it is the more durable it feels. Also the more open and brighter it will be compared to thicker heads. Coated heads provide more of an "EQ'd effect as it cuts out the attack and overtones to a degree.

Bottom line is it all comes down to what you want or need. IF you like the feel and sound of coated but want more durability, then go 2 ply coated. Like more attack with an extremely open sound for the most tone possible go single ply clear.

Hope that helped a little, sorry for the long post.

XD
 
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No this was very informative. I definitely will look into getting Emps for the 13" and 16". Would you consider clear with possible tape/gel/rings to taste or coated? I've been using Rings as they gave me a strong hit while still cutting the overtones. While gels just over all took away the sound evenly. I'm thinking maybe clear if I'm going with Emps, and just for a change.
 
Ambassador = Yazz Flute

Emperor = Everything else

Hope that simple yet annoying analogy helped the discussion ^_^
 
Yeah but are we talking what the naked ear hears or what we hear when their kits are mic'd going through EQ's and processors? Trust me changing from a 1 ply Ambo to a 2 ply Emp on the 16" FT of my X7 was a huuuuge change in tone. Not to mention when a Pinstripe is on it. Now whether or not that has to do with shell difference is unknown but I'd still venture to say not really. Common sense and logic tells you that a thicker head will sound deeper. It goes for everything material wise, like for example hearing more through thin walls vs a thicker wall and what ever else you can think of.

I agree it does get a little fuller and deeper. My problem with that is it turns into mud to the audience. An Ambassador weight head tuned a bit higher gives better attack and a much more clear pitch to the audience and still has all the low end you need
 
If I may revive this thread for personal use...

At the moment my Coated Amb. heads are nearly 1 year old and at last they sound quite used, especially the 13" and 16". Those 2 start okay but decay with a whoopie cushion sound. I recently started tuning them a little higher than I used to and loved the higher tuning on the 10" and 12".

So here's the main question (s), if I were to switch from my Coated Amb.s to Clear or Coated Emp.s what would I immediately notice? I.E. Would lower tunings come easier? Would I get any extra pitch bend from using Clear Amb. resos? Would higher tunings sound less piecing? Would it maybe work best to only use Emp.s on the 13" and 16" since they seem to be the most difficult? How much quieter would they be? Clear or Coated?

I don't have lots of money to try out a lot of heads so I wanna try to make a decision I can live with for another year.


I have had some years old (3-4) CA's on one kit also, and it sounds to me the trouble you are having can be solved more by re-tuning the bottom heads.
The old heads I had on that particular kit didn't sound perfect (ha!), but there wasn't a big dip, or wobble ("woo woo woo" with your ear to the head tapping it) or whoopy cushion effect in any of the tones.

I'd check your top tuning to get the pitches where you want them, the make sure the bottoms are reacting WITH that pitch instead of against it. The bottoms can be tuned the same or higher or lower depending on what you like.
If the kit is a few years old, and you have the original, stock heads on it still, replace them.

Emps (clear or Coated) are going to give a deeper tone than Ambassadors, but, a Coated Ambassador can get plenty deep sounding too.
I use them on top and bottom, and they are fat and solid sounding, while being more articulate than Emps. I do like Emps though.

It's all in what you feel like hearing, and what your shells will take to best (to your ears)--which does take some experimentation.

I use 1 ply coated heads, and here are a couple examples of differences on my drums--
Using my regular tuning:

Evans (pre-new 360) single ply heads have a slightly lower pitch in the high end, and, a slightly less dry character to the initial attack on my drums compared to Remo Ambassadors.
Evans heads sound a bit fatter on my drums than Remo, but I usually prefer the tiny bit drier sound to the Remo, However, the Evans head is a good alternative, if I need a touch more beef, or, maybe a little less sustain in certain tones.

Aquarian just changed their film (to a NuBrite film) and I haven't tried it, but the previous film in a 1 ply coated head sounded thin, and flat for me, but, they sound fat and huge on other drums.... Their OLD film had a fat and solid tone, and a crisp attack to the initial hit. The new film may be more like that.

Try seeing if some bottom head tuning will help before you sink any money into a bunch of heads for now. Hopefully you can get more time out of them.

Hope some of that helped :)
 
I tuned my bottoms (Clear Ambs) to about the same and the tweek on the tops until the increments between drums are where I like them which comes pretty natural (except on my 13" which is out of round especially towards the bottom, so it needs to be a tad higher). I also just replaced said bottom heads from stocks. 10 year old stocks that came with the kit, the drums sounded so much better after I tossed those xD. Oh noobiness. I've had my kit for 2 years come this November so I haven't had much time to experiment.

Audience and projected sound is one of the things I fear about switching, even though I don't gig too much and have mics available if needs be.
 
I agree it does get a little fuller and deeper. My problem with that is it turns into mud to the audience. An Ambassador weight head tuned a bit higher gives better attack and a much more clear pitch to the audience and still has all the low end you need

I emphatically agree with every word of this post. That's my big issues with 2 ply heads, the audience tone. Unmiced? Give me a 10 mil clear tom head.

Miced can be anything you want.

2 ply heads, unmiced, don't sound as punchy as a single ply clear head in the audience. They do to the drummer. But not the audience. That's all the reason I need for the single ply.
 
Re Ambassadors, anyone try a Remo Ambassador Vintage on their snare?
I let the guy at GC talk me into buying that for my Sonor Safari snare batter and it did increase the brightness and attack a lot, but now I'm wondering if I needed a deeper sound with a 2 ply head, like an Emperor.
I also replaced the Safari res with a Hazy Ambassador, so the snare sounds more crisp and defined. Overall, more satisfied with the Safari snare but curious what it would sound like with the Emperor of Evans 2 ply head.

I don't hear too much about the Ambassador Vintage so I was wondering if others have tried that model on their snare or Toms as well.
 
that's correct, thank you for reminding me.
I was wondering what others thought of the sound of the Vintage vs. the Emperor since they're both 2 ply.
 
I haven't tried the Vintage A's yet. I use a 2 ply on my snare only. I did however try a coated Aquarian Super 2 on my snare just the other day. (made with 2 plies, a 7 mil and a 5 mil) My take on it is it needs to be broken in for a bunch of gigs before I can say what my take on it really is. My initial feeling is that it will be a contender for my favorite head. Right now a broken in coated emp or g2 is my fav snare head.

The vintage A's I believe are 2 ply, a 7 mil ply and a 3 mil ply. I have to say, it does sound interesting. I should try one. Same overall thickness as an Amb but 2 ply. Interesting.
 
No this was very informative. I definitely will look into getting Emps for the 13" and 16". Would you consider clear with possible tape/gel/rings to taste or coated? I've been using Rings as they gave me a strong hit while still cutting the overtones. While gels just over all took away the sound evenly. I'm thinking maybe clear if I'm going with Emps, and just for a change.

Great I'm glad you got something out of my rambling lol! :)

Personally I don't foresee ever using coated heads on this X7 kit ever again. I just never quite liked the feel of the Ambassador X or coated in general. I like the attack of clear heads and I also like the feel and give of thicker clear heads. As a matter of fact my next setup, for batters anyway, are going to be Vintage Emps on the 10" and 12" RT's and 16" FT with Moongels. Just to see what the effect would be like as I haven't gotten the chance to try Moongels, I took a piece of tissue paper, folded it into a 1" x 1" piece or so and then used clear packaging tape to tape it down onto my 10" tom and 16" FT. Guess what, it worked great! Maybe not as proper as a piece of Moongel or two but it cut out the ovetones a good bit and made the drums sound even better while wearing muffs!

I did the above with the Pinstripes that are currently on my set and feel it's a tiny bit too dead while wearing muffs. So while I feel the clear Emperor is just a touch too open by it's self I'm thinking that the Vintage Emp with a piece of Moongel on the 10" and 12" and maybe 2 pieces on the 16" is going to give me what I'm after! Yes the Vintage Emp is 2 ply 15mil compared to the Pinstripe being 2 ply 14mil but the Vintage Emp is still more open than a Pinstripe as it doesn't have any premuffling on it.

The only thing I must figure out now is if I want to try Diplomats instead of Ambs as resos. I feel like the 16" has too much sustain for my taste so it should help with a thinner head, not to mention a piece or two of Moongel.
 
A guy at my local GC had a kit he had put Coated V. Emps on. It sounded nice but I felt like it was very weak sounding just a few feet away. Mic it up though and I bet it would be nice.
 
I use Vintage Emps on the batter side of both (12&14) toms, a coated Amb redo on the 14, and a clear Amb redo beneath the 12. Warm evenly balanced response fro
both.
 
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