Is it just me, or is this a load of bull?

No such thing as 32 TPI... Not in UNF threads anyway... I would bet DW is using metric, something probably in the neighborhood of 6x1.0mm Usually a standard SAE tuning rod is a #12x28 (thats about 3/16" diameter/28 TPI) Metric varies, I have seen both 6mm and 7mm both in 0.75 and 1.0 thread pitches.

Sorry, but some machine screw sizes do use 32 threads per inch.

NS=national special, NC=national coarse, NF=national fine
http://www.grahamtool.com/images/products/detail/02110_screw_checker_inch.jpg
Common machine screw sizes found in tap and die sets.
#4 - 36 tpi is NS and 40 tpi is NC
#6 - 32 tpi is NC
#8 - 32 tpi is NC
#10 - 24 tpi is NC and 32 tpi is NF (aka 3/16" but still 24 NC or 32 NF)
#12 - 24 tpi is NC and 32 tpi is NS
#14 - 20 tpi is NC

Also standard tension rods are #12 24NC and DW's true pitch are #10 32NF.

From the DW website: http://www.dwdrums.com/snares/features.asp

True-Pitch® Tuning Rods

To give drummers even more control over their sound, DW created its patented True-Pitch® rod system. The rods feature 10/32 threads
 
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DW and others use standard M5 threads on their "fine" tension screws. Nothing confusing about that. What does confuse me, is how anyone can patent applying a standard thread to a drum part.
 
DW and others use standard M5 threads on their "fine" tension screws. Nothing confusing about that. What does confuse me, is how anyone can patent applying a standard thread to a drum part.

According to the DW web site, they state the "True Pitch" tension rods are 10/32 and according to this pdf 10/32 and M5 are not interchangeable.

http://www.stayonline.com/whitepapers/SOL-WP-Cage-Nuts.pdf

It states a 10/32 bolt is loose in an M5 nut and a M5 bolt will strip threads in a 10/32 nut.


Just went to the shop and checked my chart:
10/32 = .190" diameter with a .03125" pitch
M5x.8 = .1969" diameter with a .0315" pitch
 
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According to the DW web site, they state the "True Pitch" tension rods are 10/32 and according to this pdf 10/32 and M5 are not interchangeable.

http://www.stayonline.com/whitepapers/SOL-WP-Cage-Nuts.pdf

It states a 10/32 bolt is loose in an M5 nut and a M5 bolt will strip threads in a 10/32 nut.


Just went to the shop and checked my chart:
10/32 = .190" diameter with a .03125" pitch
M5x.8 = .1969" diameter with a .0315" pitch
Yes, I know they're not interchangeable, but this, from DW's own site, confuses matters even more :)

http://www.dwdrums.com/factoryaccessories/fa.asp?sKITNAME=dwsmSVKIT

Look at the contents list under tension screws.
 
Yes, I know they're not interchangeable, but this, from DW's own site, confuses matters even more :)

http://www.dwdrums.com/factoryaccessories/fa.asp?sKITNAME=dwsmSVKIT

Look at the contents list under tension screws.

LOL, well its hard for us to know what their using when they dont even know what their using.


Edit and update:
I emailed DW earlier and to add to the confusion just received this message from them:

Hello Drew,
To my knowledge most tension rod companies have a M5 style tension rod that is used. Our thread pitch is finer and has more threads per inch than a standard tension rod that is offered. I don’t know the exact measurements but if a change is need to our online information we will update it. Thanks for the information and have a great weekend!

Beto Benitez
DW Customer Service Representative
[email protected]


I returned the email stating: I am now totally confused because standard tension rods are12/24 but on the DW website it shows that the true pitch are 10/32 and in another area are shown as M5 and although smaller and finer than the standard, those 2 sizes are not interchangeable.

http://www.dwdrums.com/snares/features.asp
http://www.dwdrums.com/drums/collectors/featsopts/hardware.asp

Hopefully they will be able to clear this up.
 
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Good research guys, I was not aware DW's were as small as #10... thats pretty tiny in comparison..

And for the post about thread sizes Tard, I know what thread sizes ARE offered...Im a machinists apprentice, I was working under the assumption no drum manufacturer was using #10 tension rods, therefore eliminating the possibility of 32 TPI
 
Good research guys, I was not aware DW's were as small as #10... thats pretty tiny in comparison..

And for the post about thread sizes Tard, I know what thread sizes ARE offered...Im a machinists apprentice, I was working under the assumption no drum manufacturer was using #10 tension rods, therefore eliminating the possibility of 32 TPI

Hey,no problem, it was just that without specifying that you had stated:"No such thing as 32 TPI... Not in UNF threads anyway...".
 
Let me pass on something that the honorable Bill Bachman shared with me. He uses stainless steel nuts that you can get at the local hardware store.

12/24 nuts aren't your standard 'local hardware store' fare, they're not a common household size.

I haven't been to the hardware store lately, tho if you go to ACE I don't think they'll have 12/24 nuts... after 10 they usually go to 1/4" in the hardware realm.
 
Let me pass on something that the honorable Bill Bachman shared with me. He uses stainless steel nuts that you can get at the local hardware store.

12/24 nuts aren't your standard 'local hardware store' fare, they're not a common household size.

I haven't been to the hardware store lately, tho if you go to ACE I don't think they'll have 12/24 nuts... after 10 they usually go to 1/4" in the hardware realm.

Most hardware stores around here carry them and have found the #14 is rare but if you cant find #12 at you local sores then 7/32 is the same size, NC is 24, NF is 28 and NS is 32, hope that helps.
 
Most hardware stores around here carry them and have found the #14 is rare but if you cant find #12 at you local sores then 7/32 is the same size, NC is 24, NF is 28 and NS is 32, hope that helps.

It's been 25 years since I played but the tune in my drums was always changing (yes even after I got done with skin heads :) ) and at least part of that was the result of the rims getting hit, either by rim shots or by playing on them for effect. The hitting on the rims would change the tension on the heads, stretch the material etc.

Won't that still happen, even with the best of the new heads, resulting in a change even though the rods stay put?

Or am I missing something?? Which is dammed sure a possibility because a hell of a lot has happened since I played!!
 
It's been 25 years since I played but the tune in my drums was always changing (yes even after I got done with skin heads :) ) and at least part of that was the result of the rims getting hit, either by rim shots or by playing on them for effect. The hitting on the rims would change the tension on the heads, stretch the material etc.

Won't that still happen, even with the best of the new heads, resulting in a change even though the rods stay put?

Or am I missing something?? Which is dammed sure a possibility because a hell of a lot has happened since I played!!

To a certain extent, yes, but the biggest problem seems to be just the 1 or 2 tension rods near where you do you rim shots will loosen up quite quickly. Rims shots have a tendency to compress the hoop and allow the tension to back of just a hair each time. Not sure about other players but I have found that if I dont use anything to control it that at least the one tension closest to my left handed rim shots can be so loose by the end of a set that I can screw it in or out with just my fingers.
 
Let me pass on something that the honorable Bill Bachman shared with me. He uses stainless steel nuts that you can get at the local hardware store.

12/24 nuts aren't your standard 'local hardware store' fare, they're not a common household size.

I haven't been to the hardware store lately, tho if you go to ACE I don't think they'll have 12/24 nuts... after 10 they usually go to 1/4" in the hardware realm.

You know what, you're right that it's not a typical hardware store size. So I apologize. During my first search, I did locate a small pack at a local Home Depot. They were a bit pricey, so I went to another smaller lumber/hardware store and they referred me over to a commercial industrial distributor in my city. I bought packs of 100 (5mm - DW & 12/24 - all others) for about 5c each. Bulk purchase is the best for these things. However, even at 50c a piece they are quite economical AND effective @ around $8-10 per drum.

It's been over 5 months and the tension rods are still locked, but a few of my drums did manage to go out of tune.
 
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You know what, you're right that it's not a typical hardware store size. So I apologize. During my first search, I did locate a small pack at a local Home Depot. They were a bit pricey, so I went to another smaller lumber/hardware store and they referred me over to a commercial industrial distributor in my city. I bought packs of 100 (5mm - DW & 12/24 - all others) for about 5c each. Bulk purchase is the best for these things. However, even at 50c a piece they are quite economical AND effective @ around $8-10 per drum.

It's been over 5 months and the tension rods are still locked, but a few of my drums did manage to go out of tune.

Would you (someone, anyone) be able to post a picture of what they look like on the tension rod? Every time I imagine these (I'm assuming people are screwing them down onto the lug) I can't fathom how they work. Shouldn't they detune as normal, seeing as how loosening the tension rod should just bring them up as well, seeing as how they tighten and loosen in the same direction?
 
Would you (someone, anyone) be able to post a picture of what they look like on the tension rod? Every time I imagine these (I'm assuming people are screwing them down onto the lug) I can't fathom how they work. Shouldn't they detune as normal, seeing as how loosening the tension rod should just bring them up as well, seeing as how they tighten and loosen in the same direction?

Drop down to post #16 (Ian Paice's sig snare). The nuts you see locked down onto the lugs is a lock nut that you can turn just with your fingers. It works the same as regular stainless steel nut, but you don't need a wrench. It's pretty simple. The "tension" of the nut locked down onto the lug secures the tension rod from turning as the rim flexes from rim shots.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86715h&highlight=ian+pace+nuts+bill+bachman

You can also see how this topic of nuts pops up almost every other month or so...

Lots of nuts on this forum :)
 
Shouldn't they detune as normal, seeing as how loosening the tension rod should just bring them up as well, seeing as how they tighten and loosen in the same direction?

They would loosen if you used a drum key. The forces of vibrational detuning are way less than a key.

The rim gets pushed down from the force of the stick impact, for a 1000th of a second the rod is free to move, the vibration of the drum provides the energy for the rod to move/loosen.

A simple nut provides enough force against the lug nut to prevent vibrational forces from loosing the tension rod.
 
Shouldn't they detune as normal, seeing as how loosening the tension rod should just bring them up as well, seeing as how they tighten and loosen in the same direction?

They would loosen if you used a drum key. The forces of vibrational detuning are way less than a key.

The rim gets pushed down from the force of the stick impact, for a 1000th of a second the rod is free to move, the vibration of the drum provides the energy for the rod to move/loosen.

A simple nut provides enough force against the lug nut to prevent vibrational forces from loosing the tension rod.

I was waiting for Les Ismore to provide the textbook explanation of this phenomenon.
 
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