The Coated Ambassador 'problem'
- Thread starter major_panic
- Start date
I'm done with Remo heads!!!!!
I have spent wayyyyy too much money now on this product due to the durability of the coating problems.
Both my kits are fitted with Aquarian all the way around and I couldn't be happier. The coating looks and sounds exactly the same as when I bought them at least 6 months ago.
Sorry to Remo lovers but Aquarian are a much better product and where I live they are considerably cheaper as well.
Winston_Wolf
Platinum Member
I've also switched to Aquarian and absolutely love them. Great tone, coating that lasts forever and especially with some recent additions a lot of interesting models and ply options.
Winston_Wolf
Platinum Member
Wow, I have never seen or even heard of that before. Thanks for sharing!
If it still existed today I'm sure many would blame fast-wearing coating as a ploy to sell more Ruff Kote...
If it still existed today I'm sure many would blame fast-wearing coating as a ploy to sell more Ruff Kote...
Chunkaway
Silver Member
Sorry to hear about the problems the OP is having. I too have had some issues with flaking and chipping on my coated Emperors. I got frustrated and tried Evans and Aquarian. The Evans heads were WAY too thin sounding. I'm definitely not a fan of those heads at all. The Aquarians were certainly closer to the sound I was looking for, but they just did not have the "full" sound I was wanting. (I tried the Super 2s and the Response 2s. The Super 2s were MUCH better, in my opinion. The Response 2s were like a dead version of a Pinstripe. Ugh..)
Finally, I switched back over to Remos, and you know what? Nothing sounds like a Remo. Those heads have the sound I want to hear. Their quality control with the coating still blows, but I deal with because I like the sound. If I were using brushes exclusively, I'd probably switch to Fiberskyns or something.
Finally, I switched back over to Remos, and you know what? Nothing sounds like a Remo. Those heads have the sound I want to hear. Their quality control with the coating still blows, but I deal with because I like the sound. If I were using brushes exclusively, I'd probably switch to Fiberskyns or something.
I suppose there will always be that camp, and they're undoubtedly already charging that companies deliberately use a coating that wears quickly just so they can sell more heads! Not true. Companies applying such overt obsolecence would die a quick and deserved death.
I have a few thoughts on the subject in general though.
First, is the flaking a legitimate problem in terms of the way most of us use our snares or toms or kicks? Does it genuinely affect the sound in a way that can be heard, other than when using brushes?
Speaking of which, how many here use brushes? Will you attest to the fact that the coating can just as easily wear smooth without flaking, and result in a less than desirable sound? That's why Ruff Kote was made available in the first place, as a refresher in an era when there was more brushwork in popular music.
But back to the flaking... is it really a legit reason to replace/return the head? Sure, stores will do it as a customer courtesy, but is there really a reason to replace them? Or is it simply the idea that if something's not 100% right, it is therefore 100% wrong, and subject to remedy?
FWIW, I hit hard, rarely use brushes, and don't have a flaking problem. If I did, and used brushes a lot, it would certainly be more of an issue for me. But I'll ask the OP... it appears you're not using brushes, and you don't say that you do. Can you really tell the difference sound or playing-wise because of that amount of flaking, or is it the just the idea that a new head did that, that's got you upset?
Don't get me wrong, I'm the first person to fight for what's right, whether it was my money spent or not. But I also know that choosing your battles more carefully results in less stress, and more wins.
Bermuda
cdrums21
Gold Member
I think there is a very legitimate cause for dissatisfaction and replacing a head with the flaking problem. There may not be much of a sound difference when this happens for most drummers on this forum, but the heads look like crap, cheap and beat up instantly, when they shouldn't at all, especially when the coating is over a clear film. Returning them for a refund?......that may be a little much unless the coating really affected the sound. Replacing them with another head right away? I guess that depends on the drummer, but I definitely would and have before because I'm anal about how my drums look as well as how they sound. Plus this didn't happen before with the coating, or not as often, so I think it's a legitimate issue for sure. I never buy coated emperors anymore because the coating wears off after one gig and the heads look like crap. I do like the sound of Remo heads, so I go with coated vintage emperors, which have the coating over a whiteish film. The coating seems to last longer for some reason (must be able to grip the white film better) and they don't look as bad when the coating does wear off. I also use Evans coated G2's now all the time on my snare and probably will on my tom batters when they need changed again ( I alternate between clear and coated tom batters). For me, all of the different head choices I've gone through over the past few years are directly related to the coating issue.
cdrums21
Gold Member
Another issue is that when the coating comes off, it can adhere to the tip of the sticks (wood tips at least) and if you play clear tom heads, guess where some of the coating ends up? The clear heads get messy looking faster because little bits of the coating are "beaten" into the clear film. It may not be that big of a deal to some, but to me it is.
cdrums21
Gold Member
Guess which of these is 1.5 years old and which is 1.5 days old
To me, that's unacceptable. That has happened to me many times. I think to myself....maybe that issue has been resolved by now. I buy a coated emp or CS dot, whatever, and the coating still wears almost instantly. Should someone ask for a refund on the head? Man, that's a tough one. Is it a defective product? I don't know, but it's definitley not right. I hope someone from Remo is getting this info and addressing the problem.
Hmm, I actually hadn't given any thought to the appearance aspect of the flaking, and I'll agree, it does look bad for those who want to see a clean, unmarred playing surface for as long as possible.
I'm not a nut about a clean look from where I sit, and you'd be correct in guessing that I don't clean my cymbals.
I just accept that over time, all heads get dirty, and the coated ones may also flake. Whether it happens sooner or later doesn't bother me. Heads only get my attention when they need to be changed for sonic reasons.This is why I hang around the forums - I learn a lot about other drummers' perspectives on things. Thanks!
Bermuda
cdrums21
Gold Member
Hmm, I actually hadn't given any thought to the appearance aspect of the flaking, and I'll agree, it does look bad for those who want to see a clean, unmarred playing surface for as long as possible.
I'm not a nut about a clean look from where I sit, and you'd be correct in guessing that I don't clean my cymbals.
This is why I hang around the forums - I learn a lot about other drummers' perspectives on things. Thanks!
Bermuda
Haha...no thanks needed, I just thought it was a legitimate beef. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this way, but it really does bug me when the coating wears off instantly, and it does create other issues on the tom heads as mentioned above. Thanks for your reply Bermuda!
major_panic
Senior Member
I suppose there will always be that camp, and they're undoubtedly already charging that companies deliberately use a coating that wears quickly just so they can sell more heads! Not true. Companies applying such overt obsolecence would die a quick and deserved death.
I have a few thoughts on the subject in general though.
First, is the flaking a legitimate problem in terms of the way most of us use our snares or toms or kicks? Does it genuinely affect the sound in a way that can be heard, other than when using brushes?
Speaking of which, how many here use brushes? Will you attest to the fact that the coating can just as easily wear smooth without flaking, and result in a less than desirable sound? That's why Ruff Kote was made available in the first place, as a refresher in an era when there was more brushwork in popular music.
But back to the flaking... is it really a legit reason to replace/return the head? Sure, stores will do it as a customer courtesy, but is there really a reason to replace them? Or is it simply the idea that if something's not 100% right, it is therefore 100% wrong, and subject to remedy?
FWIW, I hit hard, rarely use brushes, and don't have a flaking problem. If I did, and used brushes a lot, it would certainly be more of an issue for me. But I'll ask the OP... it appears you're not using brushes, and you don't say that you do. Can you really tell the difference sound or playing-wise because of that amount of flaking, or is it the just the idea that a new head did that, that's got you upset?
Don't get me wrong, I'm the first person to fight for what's right, whether it was my money spent or not. But I also know that choosing your battles more carefully results in less stress, and more wins.
Bermuda
You bring up good points, Bermuda! All I wanted to do, really, was to show people that there was a problem with the flaking happening, as I've seen a few hear strenuously denying that it has ever happened, ever, at all. As I said in the original post, they still sound like CAs, so it's fine by me. It's a little weird though, given that this is only the fourth Remo head I've bought - I was thinking of fully switching over, but now I'm not so sure.
I guess I'm just a little curious that the Remo guys find this level of flaking acceptable given that their direct competitors don't have this problem. When I see flaking happening this quickly, I immediately worry about the quality of the rest of the head - will it dent more easily? Will the hoops go out of round? - simply because it feels like there hasn't been adequate QC. And given the cost of heads down here in Australia, I don't want to think that I'm paying for a possibly defective product.
And yes, I do play brushes, but not well enough that the flaking is a major problem for me.
All I'm saying is that there is a problem, and some find it more worrying than others, but it's certainly a problem that needs to be brought to the company's attention and addressed - and hopefully that's what will happen. Given the number of people here switching to Aquarian, and loudly testifying as to how good those heads are... I'd begin to be worried if I was working at Remo. I know that I certainly would at least give the Aquarians a go if they were more readily available in good supply down here.
JesusMySavior
Silver Member
I can totally agree with the fact that it's crappy for drummers to buy this head and then have it flake off right away.
Sound quality? May not be affected. Or it may be.
Looks ? A lot of drummers prefer a clean set (myself included) and when you buy a $xxxx.xx drum set, the last thing you want is for it to look like crap. So a $300 drum set, whatever...you see bad heads on them all the time, it doesn't matter so much. But what about a Birch Absolute? Or a Pearl Masters? If you pay good money for your kit you don't want heads that look like crap on them.
Life expectancy? This is what bothers me. If I buy a head that chips its coating within 3 days of light playing, what will it be like in 30 days? Maybe then I will HAVE to replace it. The only head I have ever seen ripped totally through was a Remo Ambassador, and that was 5 years ago - the drummer was not a bad drummer, but punched a hole right through the head.
That being said I am still a VINTAGE A guy, at least for my snare drum. It's warmer and darker than the modern Ambassador and (obviously) lasts longer. I won't usually touch Remos otherwise (except for Vintage E's). I've tried the CS Dot and thought it was a horrible head tuned high or low. Not a fan of modern Emperors. And don't get me started on Pinstripes.
I agree with those who are upset about this Remo problem. It is a big issue and if Remo doesn't fix it, they will eventually be known for their lack of quality control and poor quality heads. You know if Attack or Aquarian had this they would never live it down (although Aquarian would have fixed it by now already and reimbursed all of their customers).
Sound quality? May not be affected. Or it may be.
Looks ? A lot of drummers prefer a clean set (myself included) and when you buy a $xxxx.xx drum set, the last thing you want is for it to look like crap. So a $300 drum set, whatever...you see bad heads on them all the time, it doesn't matter so much. But what about a Birch Absolute? Or a Pearl Masters? If you pay good money for your kit you don't want heads that look like crap on them.
Life expectancy? This is what bothers me. If I buy a head that chips its coating within 3 days of light playing, what will it be like in 30 days? Maybe then I will HAVE to replace it. The only head I have ever seen ripped totally through was a Remo Ambassador, and that was 5 years ago - the drummer was not a bad drummer, but punched a hole right through the head.
That being said I am still a VINTAGE A guy, at least for my snare drum. It's warmer and darker than the modern Ambassador and (obviously) lasts longer. I won't usually touch Remos otherwise (except for Vintage E's). I've tried the CS Dot and thought it was a horrible head tuned high or low. Not a fan of modern Emperors. And don't get me started on Pinstripes.
I agree with those who are upset about this Remo problem. It is a big issue and if Remo doesn't fix it, they will eventually be known for their lack of quality control and poor quality heads. You know if Attack or Aquarian had this they would never live it down (although Aquarian would have fixed it by now already and reimbursed all of their customers).
tard
Gold Member
+1, I have gone back and forth a few times but I use nothing but Aquarian now.
They have been known for spotty QC on heads for years. The inconsistency of their 2-ply heads is notorious.
Bermuda
tard
Gold Member
Im a single ply guy, I find all 2 plays to dry or controlled and kill too much tone, resonance and attack for my taste so its coated studio x on all my snares, which is just a texture coated classic clear with a little strip of power dot material around the underside of the outside edge to remove some of the high frequency overtones with very little affect on the tone or attack like the full power dot versions can.
The coated studio x allows me to use a studio ring when I need a dry snare sound and then I can remove it when a wetter sound is needed and with the 2 snare set up I can instantly change between 4 different snare sounds depending on the songs being played just by adding or removing the studio ring. I tried the focus x but found it too controlled after adding a studio ring but would be fine by itself if I was only looking to get 1 sound from my snares.
I also use studio x clear over classic clear on all my toms (with a moon jell on the large ones when needed) and an sk1 with regulator front on my kick with no extra muffling.