Make it hard for their customers, the customers will avoid the stores.

evolving_machine

Silver Member
Is there a way to completely avoid the sales person at the music store? It is a rare event to find someone working at a music store that is not a pain in the neck. I find the stores have a lot of stock, yet there is no variation. The sales staff would try to sell me what they have and not what I am asking for.

I went to a guitar center asking for a snare head. Of course they did not have it. I know these heads are hard to find. So I tried to compromise and asked for a single ply, coated, no dot or ringed head and no Remo. The sales man kept telling me that the ones he had were better than a single ply coated head that I compromised to and was asking for. Right before I left the store, the sales person offered to order the head for me online.

How many people do you know of, that do not know how to order online? There may be a very small percentage of people that have trouble using the internet now in the US. Many years ago, when it was difficult to do mail order businesses, before the internet, it made a lot of sense to ask the customer if they wanted the store to order for them. Now it is just crazy to go to a store just to have them order online for you at a higher price than you would pay if you do it yourself because they do not want to stock a variety.

I went back to the store but this time I was asking for a metronome. When I used my debit card I had to give my email and physical address. When I pulled out cash to avoid the email and physical address, I was still asked to provide my email and physical address. The manager had to give the guitar center sales person the equivalent of an act of congress to release me from providing all my personal data.

When I arrived at home, I ordered the exact head I wanted and the metronome online from a different company.

As a drummer, you can purchase a lot of things again that have worn out like sticks and heads that do not need to be touched because you know the products.

The only advantage I can see of being in the store is that you can touch the product you want to purchase. I find I can get a much better price online, I find I have a better selection on line, and I find it a faster process to transact business online as well.

The stores have to realize that if they make it hard for their customers, the customers will avoid the stores.
 
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I completely agree with you, this sort of thing can be a real pain. I'm fortunate enough to be near a couple great drum shops though, so I usually have no problem finding anything I need, and by now I know most of the employees pretty well.
 
the physical address i don't mind, just means more catalogs for me to look threw. the email i always tell them i don't have one and don't use the internet.

but yeah i agree the only time i go to a store is if i want something right now, sometimes i get it, sometimes i still have to order it online. if i can wait for a week i won't even bother going to the store anymore. plus most of the sales people are completely incompetent and have absolutely no clue what their talking about and have never used what their selling.
 
I was looking at some snare drums, and was doing some rim shots. The salesman asked me what I was doing and how I was doing it. Not knowing rim shots and selling drums is like selling guitars and not knowing they can be used to play lead as well as chords. As I was leaving the store, I looked back in the direction of the drum department, and there was the same salesman trying to do rim-shots on the snare.

plus most of the sales people are completely incompetent and have absolutely no clue what their talking about and have never used what their selling.
 
Well, the problem with such stores is they all work on commission, for pennies on the dollar of items sold.

Thus anyone with any decent knowledge usually leaves for better pay in another field. And what's left is a revolving door of people who receive no training, just started last week, and won't be there next month.

And despite the apparent backwardness of it all, the formula has proven to be quite successful, as the chain has grown from a handful of stores to in the 100's.
 
Well, speaking of my local Guitar Centers, I've gone to both of my local stores twice now and twice they didn't have what I needed. And they were very basic things, like 14" snare heads, or a complete set of the same type of heads for an entire kit. For a Guitar Center in SoCal, this is unheard of. You don't have a complete set of white coated Ambassadors for a 5-piece standard kit? Sorta' floored by that one.

But in this economy, I try to support the local stores because all those people live in my community, and the more people working, the better for the local economy.

Of course, you could look at the music stores and figure they only employ maybe .0001 percent of our local population, and if the Guitar Center closed its doors in my town it would just be a drop in the bucket, but I have to give them a try. I know Pro Drum in Hollywood will have what I need, but they're 34 miles away. I don't mind visiting those guys but it's a chunk out of my day to go into Hollywood.

And in sales, it's been documented that you don't need to be a player to sell instruments. The customer isn't there to get a lesson from you, they want you to supply them with what they want. Sometimes it's better to not how to play so the customer can feel a little superior so he'll make a purchase. I knew a gentleman who sold pianos all his life and made a career out of it (I know - acoustic pianos!). The man could only play a few easy Mozart piano pieces, but it was enough for the customer to hear it, and since it wasn't incredibly hard, the customer saw a glimmer of hope that they too, could learn how to play piano. His approach sold alot of pianos! As did Ringo and Charlie Watts - two guys who gave hope to the world that they could buy drums, learn how to play, and become rock stars!

My GC's seem to be slipping and in this economy that could be bad. But I'll give them the first chance when I need it right now. I'm not afraid to buy things on line.
 
Yes, there is a way - ignore it. I will tell them straightforward, if I need your assistance I will let you know but for now on I'm looking around.....Thanks!

It's typical on sales-men, their objective is to sell. If they can sell their souls to the devil, they will! just to dispatch a product with a lack of client-relationship approach/touch.

By the way, good thread.

Is there a way to completely avoid the sales person at the music store?

The stores have to realize that if they make it hard for their customers, the customers will avoid the stores.
 
I try to purchase from the local stores in my town because they are mom and pop type places not a national chain like GC. So if it costs me 5 bucks more I think its worth it. That being said I usually only talk to the owners because I can try to get them to lower the price on some stuff.
 
Unfortunately with both Guitar Center and Sam Ash, they don't stock very much of anything. I say unfortunately, because it would actually be very easy to do so. Anytime I see open wall space behind the counter, and often there's a lot of it, I know there are parts and other items that aren't carried there. Seriously, good luck getting a whole set of rods for that used snare you just bought... or wires you like... or a butt plate. Good luck also putting together a set of cymbals. GC carries so few Zildjian items (for example) that you'd be lucky to find more than one ride cymbal in a given size. Yet, the cymbal walls have a lot of space to add more cymbals.

Granted, lately, finances have kept some stores from being well-stocked, but GC and SA have always been weak on selection. The salespeople's jobs there have been equally difficult as result, and of course they try to sell what's on hand. If there was a better selection, their job and the customer experience would both be smoother.

With all due respect to local stores with good drum departments, dedicated drum shops are almost always going to have the best selection and service. And because the shops are usually manned by the owner and sometimes their family as employees, the knowledge and dedication to service will also be better, not to mention that they'll be there month after month, year after year, and good relationships with people behind the counter really pay off.

And thanks to online competition, the small shops began offering really great prices (which they weren't always doing until recently,) so the idea that their prices are high is old school.

Bermuda
 
Bermuda,
You bring up some very interesting points. I think you hit on the reasons why they do what they do. Most likely the large chain stores will get large discounts when they purchase in bulk. Then they just squeeze the customers into that mold of buying what they have.

When I was growing up, a thousand years ago, all I knew of what existed in drum equipment was what the stores had. Now with the miracle of the internet, I can find things that I only dreamed about before.

Word of mouth does not travel as fast as the internet. In the days before Internet (BI), the greatest new product would have to go through those large chains like Sam Ash to get the customers to see it. Now a new product can catch on very quickly through many tools available on the internet.

I like what you are saying about pricing problems being “Old School.” I can still compare the prices and find some better options on the internet and save about 20% larger ticket items. Perhaps your local GCs have better deals than mine do. That is the power of the internet. It makes us all aware of other options out there.

But, don’t you think that the chain stores are still stocking their shelves and offering selections like it was still 1985, where the stores also controlled what new products you were able to see?

Where I am I have GC stores and a few other chains, and even then the nearest is 25 miles. But, I have not seen too many empty shelves on any of these stores. I just see duplicates of the same product on all the shelves. Perhaps, your stores are in the process of stocking up for the holiday events to come.

I do feel sorry for the people who work for these stores and I do not wish to project any malice to them. They are for the most part musicians who can not find work and this is a job sort of in the music field. One lady I was talking to just graduated college and received a masters in performing arts in music. It is sad that the job at GC is all they can find and selling on commission is a tough thing to do.

I was having trouble finding rides at the GC stores too. I found that when I took a chance and bought some good old Zildjians from the 60’s and 50’s on Ebay I was very satisfied.
Ebay is also a good source, as you most likely know, for parts of drums as well.

Thanks for the response,

Evolving machine
 
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But, don’t you think that the chain stores are still stocking their shelves and offering selections like it was still 1985, where the stores also controlled what new products you were able to see?

Absolutely, and that's the problem!

But consider also that there are many more brands and products available now than there were 25 years ago. Sure there were djembes, but not the plethora of styles and sources that we see now. Same for tambourines, cowbells, drumheads, specialty cymbals, percussive noisemakes from at least 3 major manufacturers, pedals, etc. Add to that the expansion of Pearl, Yamaha, Tama and DW as drummakers, the introduction of brands like Mapex, OCDP and ddrum, the rebirth of Ludwig, and several new retail-based custom brands like GMS, Spaun, Pork Pie, and SJC.

No, a chain store can't really carry everything, but as the selection increases, the stores have managed to stay the same, which in effect means they're going backwards.

There was a time when I could find a lot of stuff at Guitar Center. I bought kits there, heads, sticks, parts, hardware, etc because they carried a larger percentage of what was available. Now they represent only a small portion in their stores, and their business has declined accordingly (and I'm not talking about the current economic slide which made things even worse.)

Buying Musician's Friend was a smart idea, as there's a fairly wide range of products available through them and no doubt helped overall sales. But not everything should be purchased online. How does one know what a pedal feels like, or how a cymbal sounds or plays, or what a new size stick feels like, without hearing and touching it in person?

And that's where I have a problem with the box stores: they had the capablity to stock a wide variety and selection of product... but didn't. With the economy today, it's a tall order to ask them to change, but what was the excuse 5, 10, or 20 years ago?

I can sort of forgive independent drum shops for not having a lot of stuff, although they make for a better shopping experience than the box stores. But what was the excuse for the corporate giant Guitar Center during their heyday?

Bermuda
 
GC and SA are no different, business wise, as Costco or Sam's club. evolving machine hit the nail on the head in that they do buy in bulk and then say; "Here you are public"! We US citizens buy it because they "have it". Especially newbies into music.

I have purchased amplifiers and PA systems online without touching them and have always done well. I would never buy a drum or cymbal that way. I will get sticks and heads online....that's safe.

Regarding salespeople.....you will meet good ones and not so good...err....bad ones. Don't let them bother you or they have won. Just say "I will come and get you when you are needed". They want your address to send promo fliers etc... I actually like that because who knows what deal is coming down and I may need it.

ON THE OTHER HAND.....my great local friends at "Resurrection Drums" in Hollywood, Florida--rezdrums.com (the only place I buy drum gear, period) forget to send me the promo emails for Pro Drummers coming to town for clinics. C'mon guys send me the info! It costs them money to bring the Pros into town and I want to spend my money to see them BUT I get no info....and I am on their email list.
 
This also goes for online retailers. I purchased a cymbal from #ashville nstruments in Canada and received extremely poor customer service layered with lies. I won't be back. Buyer Beware!

GJS
 
i'd really like to know where these good sales people are. we have 5 guitar centers within an hour drive of me and i've been to all of them for various reasons. last time i set foot in a guitar center i was talking to the sales guy in the drum dept. (supposed to be the drum tech/supervisor) asking him questions about various products. (this is where i expect them to know SOMETHING about what their selling and really have no desire to feel superior to them) so i ask "what do you carry as far as yamaha?" i get back a very puzzled "the motorcycle company? they don't make drums"

i should feel sorry for these people? i should spend my money locally with info like this? i used to spend a lot of money in guitar center, like 10 g's in one shot a lot of money. i knew the general and regional manager by name and had their home phone numbers. they opted to fire their knowledgeable higher payed people in favor of highschool kids who didn't play at all for minimal pay. i've had these kids try and rip me off, lie to me and in general just try and squeeze every penny out of me they could. seriously if the place was on fire, i'd go get marshmellows.....

our one dedicated drum shop tried to jack up the price on a kit i went to look at $1000 over LIST because i told him i was just learning and was looking for a good price on a decent kit. apparently that means i'm too dumb to have researched anything before i went into his shop. sorry have no sympathy for him either.

the other drum shop, not completely dedicated but mostly. i go into to buy new heads, he quotes me almost $350 for 13 heads. i tell him i can get the same heads off mf for a little over $200. he replies with "so?".... no lost love there either.

i have one music store, similar to guitar center in size and selection but it's a single store not a chain. i'll go there if i need something right now and can't wait, if they don't have it or i can wait a week i will gladly buy online. if that means i buy something i don't really like and end up reselling it a month or 2 later, so be it.

most of the local guys have been going down hill for years and i actually hope they go under, hopefully some new guys will come in and open shop with some half way decent sales staff and some customer friendly practices. until then i'll continue to take my chances buying blindly off the internet.
 
they opted to fire their knowledgeable higher payed people in favor of highschool kids who didn't play at all for minimal pay.

It's not always about the good guys getting fired, often they're promoted into regional positions or brought straight into corporate, or they move on because of lack of commisions or issues with company policies.

That's probably the biggest gripe I have with GC, is the turnover of employees, good and bad. I'd love to see the same faces in the store from month to month, simply so I don't have to explain that I'm not a dad looking for gear for my child (goes hand in hand with being asked "Oh, do you play drums?") People don't need to know who I am, or that I started shopping at GC 30+ years ago. It's because they don't know, that they need to handle customers more professionally But Guitar Center doesn't teach this, or much else, and the kids hired in aren't experienced enough to bring their own people skills to the job.

Once in a GREAT while there'll be a pro behind the counter who hangs in there for a few years. But it's becoming rarer, especially in the last 10-15 years. There's a guy at the local GC who's been the manager for a little over a year. Heck, that's a lifer for Guitar Center!

Bermuda
 
I was in Sam Ash last week. A customer was asking if there was a stick that was longer than the Vic Firth or the Zildjian in a 7a.
All of the 7a sticks that the store had in stock were the same length.
The sales associate didn't know what to tell the customer.
I finally chimed in and I told him that the Vater Super Jazz sticks were about an inch longer.

It's not their fault, They just don't know.
 
It's not their fault, They just don't know.

But as the person selling the product, they're supposed to know! Somebody coming to buy something may be relying on that person to actually help them make a decision!

Employee training is almost non-existent.

Then again, there are also some just plain dumb people behind these counters. I had to explain to one person how to spell djembe, using the common pronunciation - JEM-bay, not ZHOM-bay - and had to tell him 3 times before he could type it correctly into the computer. It's 6 letters!! It shouldn't be difficult to type as I speak, nevermind him not knowing in the first place when there were about 25 djembes littering the floor in front of him.

I try to be patient with the younger ones, and will gently educate them if they seem receptive. But the inexperienced & untrained salesperson problem has really become chronic.

Bermuda
 
There is only one dedicated drum store left in Connecticut. Dynamic Percussion
It is about an hour away from my home in Manchester.
It is not a big store but it has almost everything! If Art (the owner) doesn't have it, He knows about it and he can tell you all about it.
There aren't many of these places left.
 
It's not their fault, They just don't know.

Except it is their fault for not knowing the products they are selling. The company needs to provide training and the employee should care about the service they provide.
 
I don't know about any of you guys but I've been drumming for about 40 years and I don't know everything about every percussion product that exist!
If I have a question I come here and I ask in a thread or I PM someone that I think will know.
 
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