...for the jazz cats ...

Now I'm hungry for a steak. I usually grill them, especially on a hot summer day like today, but that skillet recipe sounds so good....
 
i like to move clockwise with my left hand and counterclock wise with my right. like stirring a soup :D
 
Since this is a wide open jazz thread, I want to throw in that cymbals have been big on my mind lately-- I've been making a big change in direction in that department. In the last 7 or 8 years I had been increasingly going for thinner, softer cymbals, as I was refining my technique and ability to play quieter, setting up a kind of death spiral of way-too-delicate playing. It came to a head around the time of this gig, when I realized I wasn't being heard, and there was a weird distortion happening in the ensemble dynamics. After that I got a old 3200g 22" Paiste 602 dark ride-- a total monster by current standards-- which actually projects, and provides a nice cushion for bringing my sound back into a realistic zone. And when you crash on it, they hear it, by God. At the Ballard Jazz Festival recently the contrast was really stark-- I got to hear several drummers playing unmiked in the same long room, and none of the thinner K-type cymbals were cutting at all-- the performances were lost. From the playing position they sound like Tony on Four & More; out front, sadly, no...
Yes, I think this is the same issue as toms on rock/pop kits tuned so low that nothing
more than a dead and short sound is reaching the audience, but from the player's point
of view it sounds great. Drummers should think about the audience as much as about
their sound behind the kit.
 
Yes, I think this is the same issue as toms on rock/pop kits tuned so low that nothing
more than a dead and short sound is reaching the audience, but from the player's point
of view it sounds great. Drummers should think about the audience as much as about
their sound behind the kit.

exactly

Ive always found that toms cranked a bit high sound deeper to the audience then they do from behind the kit

a tighter drum will always project farther as well

mic'd up or not
 
For the jazz cats...have a look at this and see what you think.

anyone who gets into playing music to make money needs their head examined to begin with

if you dont do if for the love........don't do it

I love jazz
I know where to finds people who want to hear jazz and love it as much as I do

one of the great things about playing the style is the underground roots style unadvertised gigs that only true followers know how to find ...and trust me they find it

another is the delusional mainstream who loves to believe no one wants to hear it

we love it that way

you see....jazz is a live music energy source , not really a record selling forum....the energy never fully translates on record...... the people who come to listen to jazz actually understand the music, understand the passion, understand the conversations we are having on the stage, and seek these events out because they love it......they also love the fact that it is a bit of an elite fraternity

not so much can be said for the sheep flocking to these hot selling tickets

that article tries too hard to pigeon hole things that are intangible........I guess to help people who have no clue understand? ...who knows

it also sounds like its written by a bitter failure who had delusions of grandeur

kinda funny to me

my phone is constantly ringing
 
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Bill is kind of following Charlie Chaplin's creed that "comedy is brutality" there. I think he would find it hilarious that anyone would envy his career-- he's scuffling along with the rest of us right now. He's not mocking from on high, as a lot of people seem to feel on reading that piece. That he's a great pianist and arranger is not really questionable.
 
For the jazz cats...have a look at this and see what you think.

Well, I took the piece as somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I think there's a lot of truth in there, but I also inferred that the author was sort of having a laugh at the collective expense of those to whom it applies, himself included.

Of course, you could write the same piece about any number of other professional pursuits. It's sort of like an Office Space for professional jazz musicians.
 
Well, I took the piece as somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I think there's a lot of truth in there, but I also inferred that the author was sort of having a laugh at the collective expense of those to whom it applies, himself included.

Of course, you could write the same piece about any number of other professional pursuits. It's sort of like an Office Space for professional jazz musicians.

after re reading it not half awake and in a better mood I completely see the tongue in cheek qualities in the piece ......whoosh ...right over my head last night

a much nicer read today

....not sure why I often come off as an old man telling kids to get off his lawn in my posts.......sorry guys

:)
 
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For the jazz cats...have a look at this and see what you think.

This trend began when Jazz started being taught as "a craft" in the colleges.

I am very lucky in that I am a full time jazz musician....this came after decades of working full time jobs and playing weekends....over 40 years worth! I live in a community that supports
the arts and usually play about 2-3 times a week. I can only support myself these days doing this because of all the years of solid employment. God Bless the drummers that have
succeeded in full time musical careers! Everytime I read of someone on this site that has put his daughter through college playing drums etc...it makes me very happy!
 
Always loved that article - too many funny bits to quote. Brilliant for cold early morning insomniac reading. You find very similar types in rock and pop too.


....not sure why I often come off as an old man telling kids to get off his lawn in my posts

haha - it reminds me of a few years ago when I was on the forum and someone gave me crap. So I started writing some caustic reply that was going to throw oil on the flames.

Partway through writing the post I figured I'd enjoy some legal "relaxing herb" from a shop that sold stuff like that. Then I went back and re-read what I'd written so far ...I thought "Awww, what a grump", deleted the flame and replaced it with something light and friendly.

The flame war ended there. Until then I didn't think the herb had any effect. Needless to say, a couple of years later it was outlawed ... you don't want people being nice to each other, eh?
 
Always loved that article - too many funny bits to quote. Brilliant for cold early morning insomniac reading. You find very similar types in rock and pop too.




haha - it reminds me of a few years ago when I was on the forum and someone gave me crap. So I started writing some caustic reply that was going to throw oil on the flames.

Partway through writing the post I figured I'd enjoy some legal "relaxing herb" from a shop that sold stuff like that. Then I went back and re-read what I'd written so far ...I thought "Awww, what a grump", deleted the flame and replaced it with something light and friendly.

The flame war ended there. Until then I didn't think the herb had any effect. Needless to say, a couple of years later it was outlawed ... you don't want people being nice to each other, eh?


haha.....funny stuff Grea

Im going to try to do the same.....just with an herb that is not legal (in most places)

Im a bit too defensive sometimes......Ill get it under control one of these years....

:)
 
This trend began when Jazz started being taught as "a craft" in the colleges.

I am very lucky in that I am a full time jazz musician....this came after decades of working full time jobs and playing weekends....over 40 years worth! I live in a community that supports
the arts and usually play about 2-3 times a week. I can only support myself these days doing this because of all the years of solid employment. God Bless the drummers that have
succeeded in full time musical careers! Everytime I read of someone on this site that has put his daughter through college playing drums etc...it makes me very happy!

I'm with you there. When I started out in the late sixties it was in the nightclubs, four sets a night six nights a week, and you'd stay in one place for a good stretch, month after month if the conract was renewed. It really got my playing together and the money was great. Before too long one was a seasoned pro with a headful of jazz standards and, unfortunately, a lot of less appealing music. Still, all that on-the-job sink-or-swim playing experience was priceless.

When the clubs started going the way of the dinosaur, most of us drifted over to studio work and other sorts of sub-contracting, which we could do because we'd established ourselves in the city as pros. I don't know how the young guys do it today. It's got to be pretty damned daunting, particularly when we're talking about jazz, with as limited an audience as there is for that genre.
 
I'm with you there. When I started out in the late sixties it was in the nightclubs, four sets a night six nights a week, and you'd stay in one place for a good stretch, month after month if the conract was renewed. It really got my playing together and the money was great. Before too long one was a seasoned pro with a headful of jazz standards and, unfortunately, a lot of less appealing music. Still, all that on-the-job sink-or-swim playing experience was priceless.

When the clubs started going the way of the dinosaur, most of us drifted over to studio work and other sorts of sub-contracting, which we could do because we'd established ourselves in the city as pros. I don't know how the young guys do it today. It's got to be pretty damned daunting, particularly when we're talking about jazz, with as limited an audience as there is for that genre.

did you notice a considerable change in the tunes being called as years went on ..... 70s and on ..... or was it pretty much the same standard tunes ?

as far as jazz gigs I mean
 
did you notice a considerable change in the tunes being called as years went on ..... 70s and on ..... or was it pretty much the same standard tunes ?

as far as jazz gigs I mean

Yep, sure did. One guy I worked for had tweaked his "act" to include Stevie Wonder, Earth WInd and FIre, that sort of thing. At the same time he started bringing in the hokiest top forty rubbish you could imagine. You should have seen those rehearsals, they were hilarious.

It was when he started telling jokes and playing the banjo that I walked. Back then, see, I had options.

But it's amazing. Those standards prevail to this very day. I could sit down and play any of them in my sleep, only please don't make me do that.
 
Im going to try to do the same.....just with an herb that is not legal (in most places)

Im a bit too defensive sometimes......Ill get it under control one of these years....

I know what you mean. For a while I felt defensive myself, feeling that people considered me a bit of a lightweight. Then, after some cones of legal herbiage I thought, "Okay, I'm a bit of a lightweight. No drama," and everything flowed from there.

That's one area where I totally related to what Kenny Werner talked about in Effortless Mastery - get your ego well away from your music. The moment your feelings of self worth get wrapped up in your drumming you've created a barrier between you and the music. I'm still working on that one.


Those standards prevail to this very day. I could sit down and play any of them in my sleep, only please don't make me do that.

Bugger when it comes to that - where pros without the luxury of artistic control are in a situation not miles from the average office shmuck (of which I was one for many years) - paying the bills by doing things that don't interest you for someone who you don't much like or respect.
 
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