Joe Walsh - The truth about music

Re: Joe Walsh- The truth about nusic

Not edited. Wrong button clicked.
 
Re: Joe Walsh- The truth about nusic

What a grump.

Please lengthen your message to at least 20 characters.
 
Re: Joe Walsh- The truth about nusic

He sure does have a point to make, & a valid one, yet somewhat blinkered to the possibilities too. I do agree on the cookie cutter programmed chart pop stuff though.
 
Re: Joe Walsh- The truth about nusic

Kind of a bummer to listen to but he has a strong point to make...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-nwKcSCzf4

I don't understand what the 'bummer' here is. Or why anyone would think he's just being a grump? He's telling the truth. I've even supplemented my so-called 'career in music' by jumping through the MIDI hoops and doing stuff myself. But I've been in enough situations (professional and otherwise) that the mojo he's talking about is real - and it lacks today among the precision crafting of standardized music being produced for mass consumption.

I've always said (and have heard this from others) that your career in music is totally linked to how much beer you sell. And there are just too many variables out there (and too many people trying) that not everybody can be themselves and make a living doing it.

All you can do is the best you can do and keep plugging away. Remember that older guys in the 70s were complaining how much the industry had changed from the time they started. It's no different today.
 
Well first, it's an opinion. So it's legit in itself - that's what opinions are, right?
Secondly, it's a generalised statement. Sure it doesn't apply to everything out there, but that's the nature of generalised statements. I do see the point and unfortunately, he's damn right overall (that's my opinion).

Whatever the global situation on music production - do whatever you deem right, don't sacrifice music for anything (e.g. commercial success) and try achieving the highest degree of satisfaction that you can get (being overwhelmed by your music when listening back to it after many years, rather than having to feel ashamed). What more can we do anyway?
 
Depends on genre. I agree with it in terms of what has become of the mainstream pop culture. At least here in the USA, I don't know if it's the same way in other countries so I can't speak for that. It's purely formulaic sewage. Seems much of Country has or is going the same direction as well.

I'm sure it has something to do with time and money saves (much like reality TV).

Jo Jo Mayer made a point of saying something like this in one of his clips I saw a while ago as well. To boot, he called out drummers on it.

I don't listen to this style so for me, it doesn't apply and I don't care. But for those that do, it's a shame to some degree. But then again it's what most people under the age of 20 (just throwing out a number) know. To them it's supposed to be this way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
While I agree with the comments about formulaic, over-produced, programmed music, but that's very much a glass half empty point of view.

Joe Walsh's comments about there being no money left in music...well, cry me a river. If that means no more corporate-sponsored stadium concerts, I won't feel a huge loss.

Between youtube and music recording apps and inexpensive software, production of music (like production of movies and written works) has become democratised. That means that talented individuals can reach wide audiences without the support of record labels.

Years ago I messed around with a Fostex 4 track recorder. It was a fairly expensive (to me) piece of kit that after lots of work produced the audio equivalent of a rough sketch. The same things that JW was complaining about make it possible for teenage versions of me to create digital copies of their music that are in better quality and easier to share than ever before.
 
"Mojo" is an elusive word the way Joe used it. Looking back at the pop of the 70s, was there mojo in Tue A Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree, or Billy Don't Be a Hero or You're Having My Baby or anything by Captain and Tenille or Status Quo? As with lots of modern pop, any mojo the music may or may not have doesn't save the songs from being pukeworthy.

Every era has had its share of execrable pop. I suspect the horrible-to-cool ratio of pop has increased over the years as rationalism and commercial formulas become entrenched, but I haven't stayed in touch with pop enough to say that with confidence.
 
Joe Walsh made two points in that video that I would like to comment on.
1. All music and Everything is free, everything is downloaded and there is no longer any money in it. I do believe that eventually money will be made by the download. Not the way it used to be, but a new way, perhaps through advertising. Perhaps the bands with the most downloads will support a higher advertisement rate. Similar to the way radio made its money.

2. Playing by Recipe, no Mojo, no Magic of human performance and it is the nature of human beings to seek the human performance.

Joe Walsh talked about the uniqueness that live human performance has. I agree and I say that this is not isolated to just the art of music, but extends to many other arts as well.
You can buy a factory made cymbal, drum, or a piece of furniture even. However, many prefer the handmade craftsmanship when a human being builds the object with the attention and care. The human being can make errors and correct for them. This adds a degree of uniqueness to the work that a machine made object does not have. There has been a demand for handmade craftsmanship of furniture, pottery, glass, art and musical instruments for many years. Music itself is an art form, and there is no reason not to believe that a desire for live human beings making music with Mojo and Magic will not be a desired art form.
 
This is all stuff that Bob Lefsetz talks about pretty much daily in his newsletter. Anyone interested in the subject of how the business is changing and what it takes to make it as a musician today should really seek out the Lefsetz letters.
 
I completely agree with Joe and disagree with the "grumpy" factor.

I grew up in NY City.IN the late 60's and early to late 70's you could go and see live bands 7 days a week ,from late afternoon to early morning.From amatures to pro recording artists,they were all there.

One of the things they had in common was they ALL,repeat ,ALL got paid.In every band I was in,we did out fair share of unpaid charity benefits,or the occasional benefit to help with medical bills or a family displaced because their house burned down

But playing a gig in a pub or club..for free.NEVER.

Joe paid his dues in some of those same clubs as we did.I remember the great majority of bands never turning in a perfect performance.But like Joe says,it was a human performance.I watched the great Joe Morello drop a stick,and recover to finish a solo.That even made it more meaningful to me.

I rather prefer the less than perfect performance,it kind of kicks you in the butt and lets you know that there are real musicians in front of you,playing real music...without do overs and punch- ins.

The quest for the perfect performance has sterilized a great deal of music made today.Programed and computerized.Why not just turn on the tape,and let er' rip.A few punch ins ok but obsessing with perfection...................keep it.

Now all those venues want free music,and it's tougher and tougher to make a living at it,because plenty of younger bands buy into the free music thing and will cut your legs out to actually lose money playing for free.For ego or exposure or both,while the venue owner makes all the cash.

I've said it before and it bears repeating.If you play for free(especially amatures) all the time,you're just making it tough for musicians who want to do this for a living,and are good at it.

Music is NOT free.There's always a price associated with it's performance in a studio or live.

Steve B
 
I think the disgust stems from the fact that the money is not there like it used to be. The digital age has laid waste to many businesses. Travel agents for instance.

Imagine going to college, paying your dues, then working hard in a field and sacrificing, for many decades, and making great money, then seeing that all slip away. It's upsetting. Now he has to learn a whole new way to profit from music. After being in any business for that long, usually things get easier money-wise, not tougher. It's harder now for Joe to make money and I can't blame him for lamenting about it.

I'm glad I don't depend on music to fund my lifestyle.
 
It really is amazing how the business model for an artist has changed since I was a kid. From the elusive record company Mogul you'd try to get to listen to your tape to home studios and YouTube and social media giving yourself and your band exposure. Plus the iTune downloads and online lessons going into your bank account.

Even after 40 years of touring and recording hit records, The Moody Blues are on tour selling not only seats to the show but various VIP packages to tour the stage and see the band's equipment with meet and greet session after the show. Bands are finding new ways to generate revenue to supplement ticket sales.
I don't know if too many people hear these famous words anymore: "Come in here dear boy have a cigar, your gonna go far."

Adapt or get left behind I guess...
 
I suppose Joe is right.

There are days I regret ever becoming a musician. If you are thinking about how to to make money, you can't possibly be thinking about the art of making music, IMO. Thus, music is ever relegated to the hobbyist level, or the commercial artist level. A few skate the craftsman level in between (me included).

Wish I'd become an engineer, sometimes.

Ah well. I couldn't stop playing if I tried, now, and that puts me at the economic mercy of those more predatory than I.

Sorry. Sour grapes.
 
I am also an engineer (mechanical), it is a tough job with long days and very few rewards. And by the way, the engineering business has also changed over the last few years. But, I am glad I can come home and beat on the drums.

To help make things less stressful I have photos of the faces of my co-workers and place them on my toms. (This was a joke, by the way).

Drumming is my art, my expression and my hobby. But even though the business has changed, and I am not making much money doing it, I will still continue to play and enjoy it.
 
Last edited:
What do we want out of music?

The buzz
A higher calling
Creative kicks
The challenge of composition
Sense of mastery
The physical sensation of drumming movements
Party party!
Fame and fortune
Popularity
Ego strokes
Escape from 9 to 5
Beats watching the telly

Apart from the buzz of playing music with people with instruments and the physical sensation, a person can get all those things by sequencing music.
 
This is all stuff that Bob Lefsetz talks about pretty much daily in his newsletter. Anyone interested in the subject of how the business is changing and what it takes to make it as a musician today should really seek out the Lefsetz letters.

I just subscribed. I'm trying to recall if this is the same newsletter I subscribed to back in 1995. I just don't recall.
 
Back
Top