Speaking of tuning....

I would try throwing half a moongel on each tom and see if he likes that.

Well, this was pre-moongel days (at least, I'd never heard of it!) lol. Somehow, I don't think half a moongel would have been enough.

Dampening has a different effect than tuning, right? I remember trying Evans Hydraulic heads on my old Rogers kit in the late 70's. I tuned fairly high even then. The hydraulic heads affected the attack and timbre of the sound, but those drums still rang an amazingly long time.
 
How high is Jazz Tuning?
I will use Drum Dial readings as an example.
My tom reso's and batters wind up at about 78 to 80.
For Rock they would be at about 72 to 75.
Snare batter at 88 to 90. Snare reso about 80 to 82.
Bass drum lugs wind up about 1 to 1 1/2 turn above wrinkle.

Just tune like Bonham did and you have it down.

I am in total agreement about our perception from the throne so I have learned to ignore it.
I am surprised at how high you tuned the toms up but it obviously works. I was wondering if the recording was close miked as well since generally distance does add depth.
 
Larry...no question that I like how your toms sound in the recording you posted.

What I don't know is how tuning for maximum resonance will blend with hard rock?

The other question.....maximum resonance tuning versus batter head tensioned very tight would produce two different results? I think this makes sense, no?

I know a lot of us just mic our kicks for live playing so low tuned toms are probably not heard well.

Then we have to consider if the same kit that's played live is also played for band practice do we readjust for lower tuning at band practice? I would think so, don't you think?

The thing is, I consider these jazz tunings. But they sound closer to rock toms than jazz toms wouldn't you say? Which to me means that jazz toms are cranked even tighter than what I consider "jazz tunings".

Maximum resonance vs batter tuned tight...hmm. I have my batter at what I consider tight and this drum has more resonance out front. When I tune it lower it sounds better to me..it has more resonance at the throne, but all that good tone gets lost out front, so the question is confusing to me. At a gig, don't tune for yourself, tune tighter than you would think for the audience is my new rule of thumb. Tuning for band practice...I guess if your practice space is 15 x 15 then a lower tuning would be fine. But when you play a room that is a hundred feet deep, from what I just learned...crank yer toms.



I am in total agreement about our perception from the throne so I have learned to ignore it.
I am surprised at how high you tuned the toms up but it obviously works. I was wondering if the recording was close miked as well since generally distance does add depth.

No close micing on the drums. No micing whatsoever on the drums. I recorded with a handheld device. It's just a capture, no fancy recording whatsoever. And I agree, you have to kind of ignore how the toms sound at the throne, because they are not going to sound as good to the drummer tuned tight. Like I said, I thought they sounded high and choked at the throne, basically opposite of what was captured. That's why the recording surprised me, in a good way, and I had to share.

If the ms are miced...hey IMO you can tune low and muffle even. Different circumstances. But unmiced? Tight tom tuning is the way forward for me.
 
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Don't be silly, there is only one jazz tuning, just as there is only one form of acceptable jazz! Oh, & don't even think of playing jazz, or indeed daring to use "jazz tuning", unless you have an original round badge Gretsch :)

I will never conform to these rules! I often play jazz... many different types of jazz... with "rock tuning"... on a Sonor kit! Oh, the horror! :D

Pearl Session Custom (maple) toms, the ones in my avi.
Single ply clear G1's top and bottom
Jazz tunings, although it doesn't sound like it.
No drum mics.
Miced from about 15 feet away and off to the side, not ideal, but it sounds OK.

All right, thanks for the sound clip. This is very helpful for when I'll start gigging with my band. If unmiced, I'll definitely have to bump the toms at least two full notes. Are you playing a 12" and a 16"? Hearing D from the rack tom and G from the 16", which is crazy high, "jazz tuning" indeed, but it sounds great! Are you hearing the same fundamental notes behind the kit as well? I can just imagine the "boing" you must be hearing. I've tuned my 12" in that range before and struck in the middle it made a short, choked, little measily "bum". Played closer to the edges however, it was nice and resonant, very suitable for "jazzy" sounding fills. And I guess it did sound nice in front of the kit.

If I recall correctly you used to tune your drum heads an entire octave apart, is that right?
 
Are you playing a 12" and a 16"? Hearing D from the rack tom and G from the 16", which is crazy high, "jazz tuning" indeed, but it sounds great! Are you hearing the same fundamental notes behind the kit as well? I can just imagine the "boing" you must be hearing.

If I recall correctly you used to tune your drum heads an entire octave apart, is that right?

I do have a 10 inch tom, but I am not playing it on the parts where the toms stick out. So you are hearing a 12 followed by a 16. I don't hear boing, I hate that tone, but I do hear a short, almost choked, fairly high note that isn't very satisfying from the throne TBH. Boing, from my experiences, happens when the reso is tuned lower than the batter. No I can't pick up the fundamental from behind the throne, it sounds almost bad there. But with results like these out front, I don't need to be satisfied from the throne, as long as I have the knowledge that it's awesome out front.

And yes my tom heads were tuned an entire octave apart...before this recording. On this recording I tightened up the batter close to where the reso is. I didn't tighten my reso anymore than it already was, as it already was pretty tight. Now I will be tuning the batter the same as the reso so I can get this full tone out front.

The thick shelled Pearl toms still sound tubby to me, but the tone is so much better tuned tight rather than just medium tight. Like a night and day difference, from out front.
 
Been following the conversation but only just now hearing the recording. I love that tom sound. Tuning that tight also gives a nice head response, but yeah, from the driver's seat, a whole nuther ball game.

Great playing, too, by the way. That some seriously groovy playing.
 
you sound killer uncle Lar

the tone and the groove


Thanks Ant, that means a lot man.. Here's my favorite song of that night. Not too much tom work here, a little...You can hear the 10 inch tom right at the drum pickup. I just wanted to share this tune because I love the groove. I haven't posted any songs in about 6 months so here's my bi annual song posts.
 

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Thanks Ant, that means a lot man.. Here's my favorite song of that night. Not too much tom work here, a little...You can hear the 10 inch tom right at the drum pickup. I just wanted to share this tune because I love the groove. I haven't posted any songs in about 6 months so here's my bi annual song posts.

That sounded great, Lar. You're right, that tom does sound better a bit cranked up. Your drums sound like drums!
 
Ahh! Glad to see someone else "gets it".

That higher tuning is where it's at. If we could only get those folks with a roll of duct tape on their toms to understand this.

I remember when I first started playing at my church (had been playing drumns for a few years...) I spent some time messing with the kit and everyone in the band remarked how much better it sounded and asked what I did. I told them all I did was take the rings off and tuned the toms up to where they sang.

That driver's seat POV is nothing like what everyone hears.
 
Thanks Ant, that means a lot man.. Here's my favorite song of that night. Not too much tom work here, a little...You can hear the 10 inch tom right at the drum pickup. I just wanted to share this tune because I love the groove. I haven't posted any songs in about 6 months so here's my bi annual song posts.
Huge groove there Larry. Love your shuffle with liberal barks ;) Picked up on the 10" tom too = nice & tuneful. Don't you just love 10" toms! :) I know I do = my favourite.
 
Nice song and nice playing, as always, Larry. The consummate pro.
 
I just got to listen to the MP3's now at home.

Nice playing, lar!

Solid stuff. Love those toms.
 
That sounded great, Lar. You're right, that tom does sound better a bit cranked up. Your drums sound like drums!

Wow thanks Bo!

Ahh! Glad to see someone else "gets it".

That higher tuning is where it's at. If we could only get those folks with a roll of duct tape on their toms to understand this.

I remember when I first started playing at my church (had been playing drumns for a few years...) I spent some time messing with the kit and everyone in the band remarked how much better it sounded and asked what I did. I told them all I did was take the rings off and tuned the toms up to where they sang.

That driver's seat POV is nothing like what everyone hears.

And another benefit...I just tuned my studio set that way...it makes double strokes on my toms SO much easier. I love little discoveries like this!

Huge groove there Larry. Love your shuffle with liberal barks ;) Picked up on the 10" tom too = nice & tuneful. Don't you just love 10" toms! :) I know I do = my favourite.

Thanks my soon to be met friend. I love the 10 inch tom too, but now the love for the other toms will increase. Yea!

Nice song and nice playing, as always, Larry. The consummate pro.

They like me. They really like me!
Constipated semi pro at best Lar lol.

I just got to listen to the MP3's now at home.

Nice playing, lar!

Solid stuff. Love those toms.

Well I'm chuffed to the bollocks. Not the dogs bollocks, I just learned that from an Englishwoman customer of mine.

Thanks Brady. Love playing the halftime feel of that last tune with all the ghosts.
 
Larry, very nice playing (I don't need no doctor) Great groove, great balance, fills and the drums sound great too. Due to my firewall here at work I can't get the Youtube stuff. Will check that out later at home.
 
Larry, very nice playing (I don't need no doctor) Great groove, great balance, fills and the drums sound great too. Due to my firewall here at work I can't get the Youtube stuff. Will check that out later at home.

There is no YT stuff. 2 songs, audio only, thats it. And thanks for listening and the nice words 2b.
 
just got a chance to listen to that second track.

killin it Larry

I'll be in the Philly area later this month to record.....maybe we can grab a beer
 
Thanks man. PM'd you. If you're near Philly, I don't want to miss the opportunity to meet. Hopefully that will line up.
 
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