T
Thomas 2006
Guest
Yes Buddy was A absolutley Fantastic drummer, Yes he was extremley influential...but i think popularity shaddows the efforts of other true greats such as Krupa and Tony Williams.
Thomas said:Yes Buddy was A absolutley Fantastic drummer, Yes he was extremley influential...but i think popularity shaddows the efforts of other true greats such as Krupa and Tony Williams.
finnhiggins said:I'm not buying that.
He's an astounding player and his chops are phenomenal. But musical vocabulary? He's not a patch on Vinnie Colaiuta in that respect, to name but one. He never had much in the way of rock chops, indeed he expressed great loathing for the style on many occasions. I've never seen footage of him playing any convincing latin material either. And likewise I don't recall seeing any of Elvin or Tony's innovations making their way into his jazz time playing.
He was an enormous big band drummer, there's few who could touch him on that ground. And his soloing chops were jaw dropping too. But if you're going to put him forward as the kind of stylistic versility and musical vocabulary then we're going to have to disagree. His range was really rather limited compared to many drummers today, he just had astounding control inside that range.
mikejames said:I'm (obviously, I suppose) a huge fan of Buddy's music. Buddy's playing,along with his "the show must go on" attitude, will be discussed forever, which is the proof of what he was. Of course, our appreciation of music is subjective, so you may disregard guys like me as being biased. But here are some undeniable facts...
What (besides double-bass drumming) are the most popular tech subjects discussed here on Drummerworld? ...the Moeller and Gladstone techniques that Buddy and others had mastered. Derrick Pope's "stick trick" and "one-handed roll", as performed by Buddy, are still hot subjects. It's ironic that Buddy was the "textbook example" of the best way to play most techniques, but that he did it NATURALLY, with very little formal study.
Buddy once did a performance at Jazz at the Philharmonic, where he came out front and played a solo on ONLY two bass drums, flooring the audience. (Buddy didn't normally use two bass drums... He just sat down and did it, amazing everyone... Then he never did it again.)
And...
Buddy's influence was a major force in the drum industry itself. Who was responsible for the first (reinforced) "dot" heads? Buddy Rich asked Remo Belli about making his bass drum head last a little longer, and they were invented. Who motivated the design of the (Rogers) "Dynasonic" snare drum? Buddy Rich asked Rogers to design a snare drum that could respond at all volume levels with clarity, and without "choking", and after they did, he proved it's attributes during his playing with Harry James and later, with his own band.
Buddy was the first drummer to play drums "upside down", when he did a gag performance on the pilot for the "I've got a secret" TV show, which then led to many rock drummers doing it in their live shows.
Buddy drove Slingerland hard when he was en endorser in the late 1960s and 1970s, proving his seriousness by playing other drums, when Slingerland made drums he wasn't happy with. Simply naming a drum as a "Buddy Rich model" wasn't enough to buy Buddy's loyalty. On the other hand, when they, in his own words, "finally made him a snare drum that was playable", he was happy to play it and speak about it. He used very simple drums and hardware, showing drum companies (and drummers) that "complex" and "heavy-duty" didn't necessarily mean "better". His thoughts on cymbals influenced Zildjian. He didn't talk a great deal about these things, but simply led by example. When Slingerland let him down, in the mid 1970s, he switched to Ludwig, and stayed with them for years.
In his final years, when he could've played anything he wanted, he returned to Slingerland "Radio King" drums, made in the late 1930s. That wasn't because he was "nostalgic"... It was because he loved the sound of the drums. After his death, drummers and manufacturers alike began to wise up, and you're now seeing "Vintage" drums in their own (high-priced) market, as well as modern manufacturers trying to emulate them. Just recently, DW has introduced a vintage series, and who was the "showroom" kit modeled after? Buddy Rich. Buddy's sidemen included generations of players and writers who then went on to become the jazz masters of our time.
We all benefit from Buddy's influence, (and, in all fairness, other great drummers too) whether we realize it or not. He certainly did a lot more than just "play fast".
For those of you who would like to hear some great live concert clips of Buddy and his bands, I'm hosting a page of previously-unheard and unpublished clips on my site, at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html (free to download for personal listening, with no "catch") Enjoy!
Jusstickinaround said:I actually have that dvd with the whole Martin and Lewis tv show, bought it at Wal-mart for $5. An interesting thing happens during the solo, right after his flurry on the cymbals his beater comes off his pedal and he does the rest of the solo without a kick. You can slow it down on the dvd and see it clearly come off, he was and is the greatest drummer that ever held a pair of sticks.
This kind of post convinces a whole lot better than the blind scripture I just discussed.CadaveR (Ivo) said:About Buddy being the best drum technician to ever live... that's probably true. The fact that his solos did not follow a certain and restrict time did not matter at all. His solos worked as a free and spontaneous exercise of genius creativity. Which other drummer could simply seat and play like that? Out of nowhere and withouth much thinking or "special preparation"? Not many, that's for certain.
When i watch/listen to some of Buddy's solos on the hi-hat, for example, i can clearly sense his geniality in every step of the composition of such solo. The snare dynamics have an order, beginning, "mid", end, the accents are very accurate and are followed by immediately subsequent equally interesting rudiments played with class and "magic".
mattsmith said:This kind of post convinces a whole lot better than the blind scripture I just discussed.
mikejames said:This one, coming out in September, should be a huge hit with BR fans. Buddy is obviously "in the zone" on this one... Can't wait to hear and see it! (The drum solo from "Channel One Suite" is already posted here on Drummerworld, but to see the entire performance will be exciting.)
http://jazzicons.com/#buddy
michael drums said:Fact is, he was the greatest drummer to have ever drawn breath. Not my quote. Gene Krupas'.
Play on!
mlehnertz said:Fact WAS, not IS, and even that is subjective... Gene Krupa died in 1973. Could Gene's OPINION have changed if he had remained alive another 33 years and heard Colaiuta or Weckl or any of the other "modern greats"? I think so.
In 1973 who was "the greatest golfer to ever drawn breath"? Jack Nicklaus? Arnold Palmer? How about in 2006? That Tiger Woods guy is pretty good. Face it, there are greats but there will never be "the greatest".
onemat said:Have a sense of humor when you read this. All opinions being subjective. Buddy had a long history of learning new styles of drumming. In 1968 he began to play big band arrangements of rock, soul and other popular music. He could play the latest styles of drumming and usually embellish them with killer fills with no effort. His versions of Mercy Mercy and Ode To Billie Joe come to mind. So based on his history and the type of drummer he was, if Buddy was alive today, I believe he could achieve anything Colaiuta or Weckl could come up with and probably go one better, just my opinion.
As for Golf, the greatest Golfer (and pool player) was W.C.
Fields. Nobody cheated like he could and there hasn't been anyone funnier to watch cheating his way through a game.
Matt
mlehnertz said:Fact WAS, not IS, and even that is subjective... Gene Krupa died in 1973. Could Gene's OPINION have changed if he had remained alive another 33 years and heard Colaiuta or Weckl or any of the other "modern greats"? I think so.
In 1973 who was "the greatest golfer to ever drawn breath"? Jack Nicklaus? Arnold Palmer? How about in 2006? That Tiger Woods guy is pretty good. Face it, there are greats but there will never be "the greatest".