My experience with the tune-bot at my gig last night (it was excellent)

T

TwoCables

Guest
So, last night I had my first gig since I bought the tune-bot (keep in mind that all of my gigs are unmiked except for my bass drum). On Wednesday, I tuned my toms (10", 12", and 14") in my basement using the tune-bot. They always have a poor sound down here, so I did the best that I could. Unfortunately, I didn't think to bring my snare home. I didn't have room in the car for my bass drum when I brought the toms home, and the practice room is a 30-minute drive away with very limited access due to it being the place of business owned by the guy who runs the band. It's worth it though because this is the best band that I've ever been in and he has equipment that makes hauling our gear as easy as pie - including my entire drum kit! This means that all I have to do is show up and set my drums up! When we go home, he takes them back to the practice room at his place of business with ease.

Note: my drums are Stage Customs from 1997, the original ones that were made before Yamaha began improving them. I had the bearing edges recut by Ellis Drum Shop here in St. Paul about 4 years ago, and a few years before that I retro-fitted my toms with the RIMS mounts that were made by Pacific back then (they look identical to what you can get from Gibralter these days).

So, I get to the gig, set up, and then I played the toms one after another. My 10" sounded a little choked, but the 12" and 14" were basically ok. Using the tune-bot, I lowered the 10" tom a bit and it opened up enough that I figured that it would be good enough. I mean, the room at this venue isn't very good for toms. I had to retune the 12" and 14" because the tune-bot showed me that my heads detuned a little. So, using the tune-bot, I tuned them back up and they sounded a bit better. Although again, this venue isn't very good for toms.

How long did that take? Longer than you'd expect because I kept playing with different tunings on my 14". lol I think I tried about 5 different tunings because again, that room sucks for toms and so it made it hard for me to get a good sound out of that 14" (the smaller toms had a better sound than the 14"), but this was a very useful learning experience. Although if it weren't for that, then it probably would have taken a grand total of maybe 5-10 minutes between all 3 toms for both the top and bottom heads because I had already tuned them up as perfectly as I could on Wednesday! The next time I do a quick re-tuning like this at a gig or at practice, it will probably take me 5 minutes to retune the batter and resonant heads of all 3 toms because now I have a better idea of what lug frequencies I want for each tom (and the snare, as I'm about to mention).

So then came the snare drum. I have been chasing a better sound out of my snare for as long as I've owned it, which is about 4 years now. It's a 14" x 5½" Jeff Ocheltree "Heavy Metals" Carbon Steel snare. Out of the box, it was a wet dream both in terms of sound and stick feel. As I played with the tuning more and more, it got worse and worse. Fast forward 4 years, and now it's garbage. Or, it was! So I began by checking the lug pitches and yep, I was beginning to see why it had an ugly sound. lol Thanks to the tune-bot, I got the batter head perfectly in tune with itself. I did the same with the resonant side, first seeing why my snare sound was so ugly and then getting the head perfectly in tune with itself, or as best as I could thanks to the snare bed.

I also had to remember that Overtone Labs recommends that for 14" snares, we tune the lug frequency of the snare side 1.5 times higher than the lug frequency of the batter side, but only up to a batter head lug frequency of 266 Hz because they recommend not going past a snare side lug frequency of 400 Hz. Going past 266 Hz requires smaller differences, such as 299 x 1.33 for a perfect fourth resulting in a snare side lug frequency of 398 Hz, or 318 x 1.26 for a major third resulting in a snare side lug frequency of 400 Hz. They recommend keeping the snare side at 400 Hz for batter side lug frequencies higher than 318 Hz, but not exceeding a batter lug frequency of 356 Hz in order to avoid choking the snare with the top head. Exceeding a snare side lug frequency of 400 Hz can choke the snare from the snare side head and it can also over-stretch that head.

Fortunately, I had a calculator, but I was running out of time (lol I love how that sounds). I think my batter head was at like 320 Hz before I started re-tuning and my snare side was 400 Hz (whew), but some lugs were at like 380 Hz. The batter side was just about as uneven. It was an ugly mess. So, to save time, I just put it in the ballpark of the only recommendation I could remember based on some of the quick calculations I was doing before re-tuning the had: their "Perfect Fourth" recommendation of 299 Hz for the batter and 398 Hz for the snare side. I only had enough time to get the batter down to what I think was about 302 Hz or something (but exactly 302 Hz at each lug!), and the snare side had to be left at roughly 395 Hz at each lug (I brought it down way too far and I ended up having to go back up). Although, I couldn't get it to be exactly 395 by each lug because there were always two lugs that wanted to be much lower than the rest and I didn't have time to fix it - but I know how to fix that. So, even with this quick and dirty snare tuning, the snare sounded lovely, especially in comparison to the sound that I used to get in this bar that I played at last night. It really made my night! What's great though is that there's still huge room for improvement with my snare! I bet that I'll be able to get that "wet dream" sound again. lol

Now, in this band, my dad is the bassist. He and I have been playing together for at least 18 or 19 years, and I've been playing the same drums now for about 16 years. So, he knows the sound of my drums! Well, my dad couldn't stop raving about the sound of my drums, and they're just cheap 1997 Yamaha Stage Customs (made before Yamaha began improving them). Although, I do have RIMS mounts that were made by Pacific drums which look identical to what you can get from Gibralter these days, and I also had Ellis Drum Shop here in St. Paul recut my bearing edges and I always use clear G1s on my toms, but still. He was going on and on about how awesome he felt they sounded. In all the years that I've been playing with him, he has never said anything like this about the sound of my drums. He also raved about the sound of my snare when I asked him, but he was raving more about the toms because they were just that much better than they were before. He said he could easily tell when I was playing my 10", or my 12", or my 14". He didn't know the exact terminology, but I got him to say that yes, they used to be quite dead sounding. So yeah, he LOVED the sound!

I've been in this band for about 3½ years now, and the other guys were raving as well - although, they're both the strong and quiet type so I didn't get as much out of them as I got out of my dad. lol But I could tell that they felt the same way that my dad did.

When we got home (yeah, I still live with my parents), my dad and I were still talking about the drastically improved sound of my toms. I don't remember everything he said, but the one thing I do remember was something like this: he said something about how they reminded him of when you hear toms on a very good studio recording that make you say things like, "Whoa, those toms sound awesome!" He also said that the improved sound of my toms and my snare seemed to make the whole band sound better and play better, including making it easier for us to blend well.

My dad also had a musician friend show up at our gig to see us play, and during one of our breaks he complimented me on my sound. Like, the way he said it made it clear to me that he was trying to make sure that I knew that he genuinely meant it. He said something like this: "and your drums sound good... really good". I could tell by the look in his eyes and the look on his face and his facial gestures and eye movements when he said this that he really meant it, as though he was adding "really good" in order to make sure I knew that he wasn't just trying to be nice but that he was trying to let me know exactly how he feels. It meant a lot to me because this guy is in his 50s who easily has at least 40 years of experience as a musician.

I spent $107.11 on the tune-bot (after tax), but I'm getting far more value out of it than that. My gig last night alone easily gave it more value than $107.11. I will never go back to tuning strictly by ear ever again.
 
So would you recommend the tune-bot, by any chance?
 
So would you recommend the tune-bot, by any chance?

Actually, probably not. It's making me too happy and it's giving me too much enthusiasm about my drums (and everything drum-related) again. :)
 
First off, great to hear a real world scenario where the tune-bot was used. I love it, and recommend it to anybody I can.

I have also found that two lugs are always out of wack. On pretty much every drum there are two, always opposite of each other, that don't want to play. I usually de-tune the rest and start with those, I have found that usually works pretty well.

I also detune the lugs around the snare bed. I will get the reso in tune with itself then back off the lugs around the snare like 1/8th turn. It seems to kill the snare buzz a bit.

Keep posting your findings with the tune-bot. I have learned something about how to use it from both of your posts.
 
First off, great to hear a real world scenario where the tune-bot was used. I love it, and recommend it to anybody I can.

Thank you, Leo!


I have also found that two lugs are always out of wack. On pretty much every drum there are two, always opposite of each other, that don't want to play. I usually de-tune the rest and start with those, I have found that usually works pretty well.

Whoa. Up until now, I thought that I was the only one who was having to deal with this. lol Thank you for telling me and I also thank you for giving me a good tip on how to fix it. It sounds like it's better than the way I've been doing it. I don't detune the other lugs all the way, but I do loosen the others and I lightly tighten the two offenders but the method you described here sounds like it would get me even better results.

I wonder if this is caused by the quality of the drum. What drums do you have that exhibit this problem?


I also detune the lugs around the snare bed. I will get the reso in tune with itself then back off the lugs around the snare like 1/8th turn. It seems to kill the snare buzz a bit.

Oh, interesting. What are your lug frequencies for both the batter and snare side, except for the lugs by the snare bed?


Keep posting your findings with the tune-bot. I have learned something about how to use it from both of your posts.

Oh wow. I'm very happy to know that! Thank you! I promise that I will!
 
Fortunately, I had a calculator, but I was running out of time (lol I love how that sounds).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTqfs2L7rmc

lol... :D

That was a fun read man and nicely detailed on the process you went through while testing and tuning. Also it's great to hear your father take notice of the improved quality of the tone of your drums. Nothing to be ashamed about in regards to having dated drums, as a prime example from the results of your test n tune, you found a way to make them sound great and most of all you're actually out there doing what most dream about or are too shy to try. Like always, it's the drummer not the equipment. I really wish I gave the Tune Bot more time as I would have went in steps through each range of Hz on each drum to see where they really shined but I just began to feel too guilty having bought the Tune Bot when I guess I really shouldn't have. So I returned it a couple days later like I mentioned before.

What I really want to try next time, is I want to tune my 8, 10 and 12 to the same Hz for max resonance with clear Vintage Emp's and Ambo's and then tune my 16 with the top lower than the bottom to help with quicker decay. I also want to try a Diplomat on the 16 , with a clear Vintage to help shorten the sustain even further next time I replace heads. It may be a hint brighter but it will still be deep because of the way I tune it and should result in a very quick and fat punch to the sound of it. Oh the possibilities with this thing are endless! Anyway, thanks for the review and letting us know how everything went at the gig, Tune Bot use included.
 
that was a great read. a little confusing when you started mentioning the x 1.5 thing but i got it after the second read. i think i maybe have to invest into one of the tune-bots.
 
Here's my problem with the tune bot. The loose lugs. Not disputing that the tune bot used properly can make your drums sound good. By all accounts, they do very well at that. And maybe there aren't loose rods all the time. That's great too.

However, I know from tuning drums that if you have loose rods...your drums could sound and feel even better.

Best case scenario, the head is cleared, the reso head and the batter head are at the respective tensions you like them, the notes compliment each other, and all rods on each respective side have roughly the same tension. No loose rods. No loose rods.

From my drum dial experience (read frustration, but eventually understanding) I came to understand that a 6 lug drum (for instance) has 3 "planes" that all have to be even with themselves..... and the other 2 "planes". The other 2 planes is the hard part. (an 8 lug drum would have 4 "planes") Pretty easy to get one plane even. Getting all 3 even with each other is the trick to the best tuned drum possible, IMO. Yes there are simpler ways to tune drums, but I'm going for excellence.

A "plane" consists of a lug and the one directly across from it. So a plane needs a pair of lugs. This is assuming an even number of lugs. Understanding the technical goal helps a lot. That way you have a clearly defined ideal of what you are going for. It becomes much easier when you really understand the way the forces are distributed on a circular membrane.
Like I said, best case scenario, the head is cleared, and all lugs have roughly the same tension. No loose rods. No loose rods.
 

Exactly! I've never heard that song before, but after listening and reading along, I can say that it would have been the perfect song to be playing as our start time drew closer and closer. I thought our start time was closer to 8:30, but it turned out that it was closer to 8. I barely had enough time to go take a leak after I was done. LOL Got the time, tick, tick, tickin' in my head! Tickin' in my head! Tickin' in my head! Tickin' in my head! lol

I was laughing at the beginning when the chorus came up because of how fast the song is and how well it matches the way I felt toward that end of my tuning. Hilarious and perfect! Thank you.


That was a fun read man and nicely detailed on the process you went through while testing and tuning.

Thank you! I admit that I love working towards making anything I write easy to read and just as interesting and as engaging as I believe it to be, so it's nice to have that feedback. It's kind of like being on break during a gig, or tearing down and having someone come up to you giving you sincere positive feedback about things you wouldn't otherwise know but hope to be true due to striving for those things!


Also it's great to hear your father take notice of the improved quality of the tone of your drums. Nothing to be ashamed about in regards to having dated drums, as a prime example from the results of your test n tune, you found a way to make them sound great

Thank you. I realize that I sounded ashamed, but I guess I'm mostly expressing how good I feel the tune-bot is because if it can do this for my low-quality drums, then I can only imagine what it would be able to do for higher quality drums - even something that's just a step up or two like a $700-$800 5-pc maple kit!


and most of all you're actually out there doing what most dream about or are too shy to try.

Do you mean gigging?


Like always, it's the drummer not the equipment.

That's a good thing for me to remember because any sound can be a good sound if it's played in perfect time with good dynamics and if it's used intelligently!


I really wish I gave the Tune Bot more time as I would have went in steps through each range of Hz on each drum to see where they really shined but I just began to feel too guilty having bought the Tune Bot when I guess I really shouldn't have. So I returned it a couple days later like I mentioned before.

Oh no, what do you mean that you felt guilty having purchased the tune-bot when you probably shouldn't have? What made you feel that you probably shouldn't have purchased it?


What I really want to try next time, is I want to tune my 8, 10 and 12 to the same Hz for max resonance with clear Vintage Emp's and Ambo's and then tune my 16 with the top lower than the bottom to help with quicker decay. I also want to try a Diplomat on the 16 , with a clear Vintage to help shorten the sustain even further next time I replace heads. It may be a hint brighter but it will still be deep because of the way I tune it and should result in a very quick and fat punch to the sound of it. Oh the possibilities with this thing are endless!

You're not kidding! Check out this video made by Overtone Labs:

Drum Tuning 101: exploring different styles of drum tuning with Tune-bot - 7:29, 720p available

I think everyone should watch this. I learned that I might prefer my top head to be a little higher than the bottom head for a bit more clarity because I never have any of my toms miked up at gigs. Previous to this video, I thought the best tuning would be both heads tuned to the exact same pitch, but to a slightly higher pitch than I might like from behind the drums for the sake of projection.


Anyway, thanks for the review and letting us know how everything went at the gig, Tune Bot use included.

You're welcome, and I thank you for everything that you said here!


that was a great read. a little confusing when you started mentioning the x 1.5 thing but i got it after the second read. i think i maybe have to invest into one of the tune-bots.

Thank you!

I will look at that section to see if I can make it clearer. If I succeed, then you'll be owed another huge thank-you!


Here's my problem with the tune bot. The loose lugs. Not disputing that the tune bot used properly can make your drums sound good. By all accounts, they do very well at that. And maybe there aren't loose rods all the time. That's great too.

However, I know from tuning drums that if you have loose rods...your drums could sound and feel even better.

Exactly, and for this reason I am making a point to discuss this almost every time I talk about the tune-bot because it's one thing to get the all of the lug frequencies to be perfectly identical, but it's entirely different and superior to get the head sitting as comfortably and as centered on the shell as possible.


Best case scenario, the head is cleared, the reso head and the batter head are at the respective tensions you like them, the notes compliment each other, and all rods on each respective side have roughly the same tension. No loose rods. No loose rods.

From my drum dial experience (read frustration, but eventually understanding) I came to understand that a 6 lug drum (for instance) has 3 "planes" that all have to be even with themselves..... and the other 2 "planes". The other 2 planes is the hard part. (an 8 lug drum would have 4 "planes") Pretty easy to get one plane even. Getting all 3 even with each other is the trick to the best tuned drum possible, IMO. Yes there are simpler ways to tune drums, but I'm going for excellence.

A "plane" consists of a lug and the one directly across from it. So a plane needs a pair of lugs. This is assuming an even number of lugs. Understanding the technical goal helps a lot. That way you have a clearly defined ideal of what you are going for. It becomes much easier when you really understand the way the forces are distributed on a circular membrane.
Like I said, best case scenario, the head is cleared, and all lugs have roughly the same tension. No loose rods. No loose rods.

Yep, and I believe that this is what Buddy Rich may have been talking about when he said that he tunes only by tension.
 
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2009 dw eco-x
early 2000 tama rockstar

omg. I bet those Eco-X's have an amazing sound already, but will likely have an even better sound once the heads are perfectly in tune with themselves. Is their sound as beautiful as their appearance?

I've heard the Rockstar in person, and they are definitely not bad at all. I bet these would have a relatively killer sound after you tune them with the help of the tune-bot too.
 
omg. I bet those Eco-X's have an amazing sound already, but will likely have an even better sound once the heads are perfectly in tune with themselves. Is their sound as beautiful as their appearance?

I've heard the Rockstar in person, and they are definitely not bad at all. I bet these would have a relatively killer sound after you tune them with the help of the tune-bot too.

i love my eco-x kit. its everything i was looking for. they sound good with the stock heads and even better with evans on them.

the rockstars, are also decent after you change the heads on them. i have G2 on the top and G1 on the bottoms. makes a world of a difference...

heres a vid of a magazine did for them...

http://view.ceros.com/lick-library/idrum-magazine-issue-21/p/29
 
Exactly! I've never heard that song before, but after listening and reading along, I can say that it would have been the perfect song to be playing as our start time drew closer and closer. I thought our start time was closer to 8:30, but it turned out that it was closer to 8. I barely had enough time to go take a leak after I was done. LOL Got the time, tick, tick, tickin' in my head! Tickin' in my head! Tickin' in my head! Tickin' in my head! lol

I was laughing at the beginning when the chorus came up because of how fast the song is and how well it matches the way I felt toward that end of my tuning. Hilarious and perfect! Thank you.

Haha! I was hoping you'd get a kick out of that song, no pun intended.... ok yeah pun intended, why not. ;)

Never really got into Anthrax too much, I heard a couple songs back in the 90's and ended up buying their "Best Of" album.

Thank you. I realize that I sounded ashamed, but I guess I'm mostly expressing how good I feel the tune-bot is because if it can do this for my low-quality drums, then I can only imagine what it would be able to do for higher quality drums - even something that's just a step up or two like a $700-$800 5-pc maple kit!

Yeah sorry, I certainly didn't mean you were ashamed, it was just in the context of how you wrote it. Honestly, if you had the edges re-done and if the rims are flush and sit well I can't imagine how much of a difference there would be to a new intermediate kit, maple or birch. What are your Customs made of? In fact because you had the shells re-cut and if done well, they may in fact be more true than what most get from the factory of house hold name brand drums. Well, not custom made drums, more so shells that are pumped out left and right.


Do you mean gigging?

Yeah for sure! I felt like throwing up everywhere just playing songs with a friend of mine years ago lol! We would switch up and play our favorite songs after school on my kit at the house, great times. I can't even imagine doing something like the GC Drum Off or especially a gig! Though what's really cool is you get to jam with your father of all things. :)


Oh no, what do you mean that you felt guilty having purchased the tune-bot when you probably shouldn't have? What made you feel that you probably shouldn't have purchased it?

Just that because work was slow and with money being tight it was just something that I felt money was needlessly spent on. $100 to have something sit there that I wouldn't use all too often or just for tuning was not a good idea at the time. It's cool though, at least I got to try it and I know for a fact that I liked it!


You're not kidding! Check out this video made by Overtone Labs:

Drum Tuning 101: exploring different styles of drum tuning with Tune-bot - 7:29, 720p available

I think everyone should watch this. I learned that I might prefer my top head to be a little higher than the bottom head for a bit more clarity because I never have any of my toms miked up at gigs. Previous to this video, I thought the best tuning would be both heads tuned to the exact same pitch, but to a slightly higher pitch than I might like from behind the drums for the sake of projection.

Yeah that's a nice video, was checking that out from the ones you listed in another thread. Also yes I too used the Tune Bot calculator or chart when I had it. It helped get me in a ballpark quick with the Hz range of each drum.

Actually I just wonder if what I read or heard holds true? I forget who it was that I got this from. I never really tried to tune that way but I swear I remember someone saying, batter for feel and reso for tone or pitch. I always went by the type of "pitch bend" you want out of a drum so naturally I tuned the top to be looser than the bottom for that downward pitch bend. While I can do diddles just fine on batters that are JAW, I find I'd like them a bit tighter for easier diddles and clarity and fear tuning the reso lower to keep the drum at a low pitch because of a weird pitch bend or after effect. That would be something to try with the Bot next time as well.
 
So is it better than using a drum dial? If so I think I might have to get one.... I never found the drum dial that great, I sort of used it more as a sanity check.

I failed the check.
 
No loose rods. No loose rods.

You probably know this way better than I do, but I'll say it anyhow:

Small increments. Small increments.

With or without tune-bot: don't go for that desired lug pitch too directly. Very small turns on those tension rods, taking you only a tiny step closer to where you want to be, are the way to go... Go 'round, repeat, etc.
 
With or without tune-bot: don't go for that desired lug pitch too directly. Very small turns on those tension rods, taking you only a tiny step closer to where you want to be, are the way to go... Go 'round, repeat, etc.


Exactly correct !

.
 
I've also gotten very good results tuning by lug frequency. I don't use a Tune-Bot, though, I bought a $4.99 app for my iPhone that does the same thing (iDrumTech). After some experimentation with different tunings, I created presets for each of my drums and now it's really quick and easy to tune them up.

Experimentation is much easier with a device like this. In the past I would just stumble around until the drum sounded un-shitty, and stop there, because I didn't know what made it sound better. I'm not afraid to try lots of different batter/reso tuning combinations now, because if what I try doesn't sound good, it's easy to get back to where I had it before. It's a great learning tool.

The app, and I think the Drum-Bot also, has a calculator for the frequencies. You enter the desired overall pitch of the drum, whether you want the reso higher or lower than the batter, and how much sustain you want (max sustain = equal tunings top and bottom), and it calculates the frequencies for the batter and reso heads. Then you just point your phone mic at each lug and keep going round until they are all about equal and close to the right frequency.

I'd recommend to anyone to get one of the phone apps, or a Tune-Bot if you want a dedicated device. However, I wouldn't recommend becoming too dependent on it. Use it to develop your tuning skills and your ear so that you can do it without the Bot/app. I still rely on mine because I get the best results that way, but I'm practicing tuning without it. You can't tune the drums on the kit with these things, because you need the opposite head to be muffled. Try muffling the bottom of your 12" rack tom, while holding the device in your other hand, and now you're out of arms and you can't even tap the drum to check the frequency.
 
Here's my problem with the tune bot. The loose lugs. Not disputing that the tune bot used properly can make your drums sound good. By all accounts, they do very well at that. And maybe there aren't loose rods all the time. That's great too.

However, I know from tuning drums that if you have loose rods...your drums could sound and feel even better.

Best case scenario, the head is cleared, the reso head and the batter head are at the respective tensions you like them, the notes compliment each other, and all rods on each respective side have roughly the same tension. No loose rods. No loose rods.

From my drum dial experience (read frustration, but eventually understanding) I came to understand that a 6 lug drum (for instance) has 3 "planes" that all have to be even with themselves..... and the other 2 "planes". The other 2 planes is the hard part. (an 8 lug drum would have 4 "planes") Pretty easy to get one plane even. Getting all 3 even with each other is the trick to the best tuned drum possible, IMO. Yes there are simpler ways to tune drums, but I'm going for excellence.

A "plane" consists of a lug and the one directly across from it. So a plane needs a pair of lugs. This is assuming an even number of lugs. Understanding the technical goal helps a lot. That way you have a clearly defined ideal of what you are going for. It becomes much easier when you really understand the way the forces are distributed on a circular membrane.
Like I said, best case scenario, the head is cleared, and all lugs have roughly the same tension. No loose rods. No loose rods.

The tune bot does not leave loose lugs like the drum dial would. I had the same issues with the drum dial and eventually ditched it. The tune bot works in a completely different manner. Every lug is tightened to the same level.

I wonder if this is caused by the quality of the drum. What drums do you have that exhibit this problem?

I play a Tama Superstar. Not the best quality kit, but I like how it cuts through.
 
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