Whats the word I'm looking for?

Jared Weems

Jared Weems

Junior Member
Hey everyone, this is actually my first post (but I scroll through the forum everyday). Anyway, I'm looking to order some custom Saluda cymbals soon and I need to specify the right sound I'm looking for. I have a good idea on what I am looking for except I can't figure out how to describe what I define as the most important part of the cymbal's sound (most important to me, but it's only my opinion).

Look at these videos. The only way I can find to describe it is having a lot of body. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOu72-_bFqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtfL6iUSGCk
Mike Johnston uses the word buttery to describe all of the cymbals I find this particular trait in.
Please note I am not talking about the darkness of the cymbal but rather the sound that really puts the fullness in the cymbal


For a comparison, I personally do not like 90% of Zildjian cymbals because they do not seem to have the trait I am looking for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jPFezijHHU
Most of their crashes tend to sound very thin and bright.
I'm not trashing Zildjian, just not my choice of cymbals

The only way I can think of to describe the sound would be:
lots of body, washy, fullness, buttery, trashy??.

I would love to hear you guys' take on this. Do you also like the sound I am describing? How would you describe it? Any examples?
Thanks in advance!
 
what are you looking for in a cymbal? and what type of music are you playing? live shows or small venues?
you say 90% of zildjian are thin and bright, you must be looking for darker sound like istanbul, masterwork,boshphorus, sabian hh or zildjian k. they all have a darker sound to them or more trashy sound than a normal zildjian a cymbal. I personally wouldnt buy saluda cymbals there are much better cymbals out there for less money and sound better but people like saluda for there different sound. they have some trashy stuff for sure but so does stagg which sound like saludas to me.
If your dead set on saluda go buy some used on ebay they sell pretty cheap since there not a highly sought after name. they go cheaper than most aax, aa or zildjian a for sure and save you some major money over buying new ones. saluda china cymbals are wuhan chinas just 5x the price
 
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Thanks for the reply! Well, I find the appeal to saluda cymbals comes from being able to work with the man who makes for a fully customized sound tailored specifically to you. But, Im not looking for what kind of cymbal I like (you did get it dead on though, dark, dry, and.....? )that's what I'm looking for. What would somebody else call that thing I left blank. The words I use is lots of body, washy and you said trashy. Just trying to find the best way to describe my ideal cymbal. (Not just for saluda, but the fact I can't put a name to it has bugged me for a while )
 
It sounds like you like thin cymbals with lots of hammering to get trashier sounds. Thin cymbals will tend to have a darker tonality to them, but they don't all have to be so dark. Hammering/lathing/aging, etc. all play a part in how the cymbal will sound. One trait with thin cymbals is that they open up very easily because there is not so much metal to "excite" when struck. This is that "buttery" and "fullness" sound you are talking about. They also decay quickly because there isn't much metal to keep the cymbal excited. Thin cymbals can be a bit dryer due to their quick decay, but again lathing/hammering/aging all play a big role in this.

I will say that Zildjian is a bit of a conservative company and has deep seeded roots in the sounds they produce. You wont find many dry/washy/trashy cymbals from them. You might find something in their K Constantinople line, but it would be a rare bird if you did. Experimental is just not what they like to do.

If you like dry/washy/trashy cymbals, Meinl has that in spades. Yeah this Saluda company (well, it's just one guy, I think) may be able to replicate this with their cymbals, but as a custom company you may find the cymbal might not meet your needs after it is finally made. In the end, that custom cymbal is what you paid for and you will be stuck with it. It's a dangerous game that could cost you lots of time and money and not get you what you want. As mentioned above, selling the cymbal will net you pretty low money. So, is the risk worth the reward?
 
Tommy_D said:
It sounds like you like thin cymbals with lots of hammering to get trashier sounds. Thin cymbals will tend to have a darker tonality to them, but they don't all have to be so dark. Hammering/lathing/aging, etc. all play a part in how the cymbal will sound. One trait with thin cymbals is that they open up very easily because there is not so much metal to "excite" when struck. This is that "buttery" and "fullness" sound you are talking about. They also decay quickly because there isn't much metal to keep the cymbal excited. Thin cymbals can be a bit dryer due to their quick decay, but again lathing/hammering/aging all play a big role in this.

I will say that Zildjian is a bit of a conservative company and has deep seeded roots in the sounds they produce. You wont find many dry/washy/trashy cymbals from them. You might find something in their K Constantinople line, but it would be a rare bird if you did. Experimental is just not what they like to do.

If you like dry/washy/trashy cymbals, Meinl has that in spades. Yeah this Saluda company (well, it's just one guy, I think) may be able to replicate this with their cymbals, but as a custom company you may find the cymbal might not meet your needs after it is finally made. In the end, that custom cymbal is what you paid for and you will be stuck with it. It's a dangerous game that could cost you lots of time and money and not get you what you want. As mentioned above, selling the cymbal will net you pretty low money. So, is the risk worth the reward?
Click to expand...

Sir, you are my hero. The open up part made PERFECT sense. I think you hit everything dead on. Also, Meinl was my choice if I decided to not go with Saluda later on. Love just about everything they put out.

Huge thanks for the help!
 
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding your question, but it sounds like you're asking about specific characteristics.

To my ears, a cymbal that's "full" has some weight like a medium-thin or heavier, and a cymbal that's "trashy" is thin and breaks up at a lower volume.

Full cymbals, being heavier, stay clean at louder volumes and are generally higher in pitch. Many also produce weird overtones that aren't necessarily pleasing at lower volumes and can be very noticeable on a drum shop cymbal rack. Asymmetrical hammering on heavier cymbals breaks up a lot of these and a flatter profile tends to lower the pitch.

Thin and/or trashy cymbals play a lot faster because of that lack of mass, but that also means they're not producing as much body, or fullness.

These are just generalities not specific to any particular cymbal company, and they all use somewhat different ways of making use of different weights. Sabian has the Omni which has a thin edge but tapers up to a respectable thickness well before the bell, which is intended to give both a faster, trashier response with some full projection.

For me, I can't really tell how much I like a cymbal until I play it with my band. I'm willing to tolerate some nasty stray overtones as long as they get washed out behind a Marshall half-stack...
 
Jared Weems said:
Thanks for the reply! Well, I find the appeal to saluda cymbals comes from being able to work with the man who makes for a fully customized sound tailored specifically to you. But, Im not looking for what kind of cymbal I like (you did get it dead on though, dark, dry, and.....? )that's what I'm looking for. What would somebody else call that thing I left blank. The words I use is lots of body, washy and you said trashy. Just trying to find the best way to describe my ideal cymbal. (Not just for saluda, but the fact I can't put a name to it has bugged me for a while )
Click to expand...

Sabian's custom shop is also open to the general public, they can make whatever you want.
 
Jared -

By your location that shows up, you live in one of the best cities in the world for trying out cymbals. I would go to Memphis Drum Shop and recruit their help in finding the right cymbals. It's a great place with people willing to help and share their knowledge.
 
If you are trying to convey to your cymbalsmith a verbal description of the sound you like....

I suggest you skip the words and give him soundfiles of the tone you're after.
 
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