What would you pay??

Oh - and to return this thread to its actual topic: I find it dissapointing that so many people who spend so much time here value the service provided so poorly. I agree that if this was a pay-forum, that many would go somewhere else where it was free but considering how great this place is - and how respectful (most) people are - shouldn't we all be prepared to pay for what we get? While this is clearly a labor of love for Bernhard and for Thomas and Jason, why shouldn't they earn money for doing so? How many of us would be prepared to give so freely of our time and effort only for others to take advantage of our generosity.

Comments about not being able to afford to pay only really reveal a bias toward other priorities. Surely a fee of $10 per month for the benefits provided by this site is nothing. If everybody wanted to learn badly enough they would pay. Unfortunately, there seems to be a culturaly ingrained sense of entitlement to places such as this. How sad is that.

Paul
 
Lewis, do you not realise that you've just proved Gruntersdad's point by posting back in that manner? He's a member that I have great respect for and is a genuinely kind and generous man who actually shows a level of intelligence. Face it, you're an angry kid. If you'd met me a few years ago I was much the same so for your sake I hope you grow out of it. You also know that swearing is against the rules on this forum and for a perfectly legitimate reason.

If you get banned because of what you just said, then I would support the moderators. You've just broken at least forum rules (that you agreed to) when you posted that remark at Gruntersdad; who is actually trying to do you a favour.
 
You know, no offense to anyone, but even though you said some stuff that is obviously against the rules and will get you banned, I must agree with some of your post...I feel for you. When I first came here, I was scolded by a lot of the older members as well.

Exactly, when we first start skimming through the forums and get advice from someone like aydee, Gruntersdad, etc. (members with a lot of experience) we don't know them and smart off to them, but as we get to know them more, we respect them even if we still do know very little about them. We come to recognize that they really are helpful.

Oh - and to return this thread to its actual topic:

I NEVER use this (whatever it is) when typing, but....... LOL!
 
Oh - and to return this thread to its actual topic: I find it dissapointing that so many people who spend so much time here value the service provided so poorly. I agree that if this was a pay-forum, that many would go somewhere else where it was free but considering how great this place is - and how respectful (most) people are - shouldn't we all be prepared to pay for what we get? While this is clearly a labor of love for Bernhard and for Thomas and Jason, why shouldn't they earn money for doing so? How many of us would be prepared to give so freely of our time and effort only for others to take advantage of our generosity.

Comments about not being able to afford to pay only really reveal a bias toward other priorities. Surely a fee of $10 per month for the benefits provided by this site is nothing. If everybody wanted to learn badly enough they would pay. Unfortunately, there seems to be a culturaly ingrained sense of entitlement to places such as this. How sad is that.

Paul

You know, I have to say, I disagree with you.

First off--I might be mistaken--but isn't Bernhard making money off Drummerworld? I would assume he is, because with using the ads to pay for bandwidth, you don't just break even.

And you say that if everybody wants to learn badly enough, they would pay...well, that's not true. It's the people who drive this forum forward--purely the content. The moderation is a nice extra, but the people don't have to use Drummerworld. If, hypothetically, one day every active member here decided to leave Drummerworld and start a new site, it wouldn't be much different.

And while it's true that we have a culturally engrained sense of entitlement--that's true, but it's not the only reason why we wouldn't be willing to pay for the site. Because there ARE other priorities, such as food, clothing, and shelter.
 
Posts deleted, and one sad little teenaged potty mouth banned. I'm sure he'll go somewhere else and complain about how he was banned for "nothing." Even in a thread that is attempting to thank us for what we do, some silly boy has to show his backside. Off now, lad. Run and play.

I know that I'm only saying what most of you know, but neither Jason nor I have taken a single penny for the years of work that we have put into the forum, and the money that Bernhard gets for the ads on the site doesn't come close to covering what he has paid out of his own pocket. Dozens upon dozens of pro and semi-pro drummers telling the world that DrummerWorld is the best at what we do, and a few silly sods crying that they actually have to act like grown adults if they're going to hang out here. I can't think of a better way to look like the south end of a north-facing donkey.
 
I'd pay $10-$20. I LOVE DW! I would hate to see it go! I consider a lot of people here good friends.
 
I'd pay $10-$20. I LOVE DW! I would hate to see it go! I consider a lot of people here good friends.

Here's the thing folks...if you WOULD pay have you made a contribution? I am not saying I am a regular contributor to the till, but I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and pay and for those that cannot or will not I would still pay just so that they can be here as well; DW IMO is too valuable to squirrel away to only those that can pay there is no other resource out there near the value as this!

And for our moderators....RIGHT ON TO EACH OF THEM!!!! I would expect that if I broke the rules I would either be warned or booted and not fault them at all...that is why I try to keep my nose out of the occasional poo that may come along!

To our gracious HOSTS: CHEERS!!!!

JIM
 
I definitely agree with you drumhead61, this place is too valuable, one of the best drum forums out there with lots of pro and semi-pro drummers as users. Sorry, THE best forum without a doubt.

I would happily pay anything upto £20 for the ammount of expertise lurking around here. We're all a big happy family!
 
the more and more i think about it, i think i would pay for this forum. its a great site, and i think i take it for granted sometimes.
 
I don't think I would pay right now because I don't use the site very much. If it was late 2008 I would probably fork out $30 a year.
 
I would invite more people to join the DrummerWorld Community. As matter of fact, I do it actually and passing the word around.
 
If DW began to charge its members for access, DW would no longer be a "Public Site". That would change everything! It would become a private "Good Ole Boys Club" so to speak. I think that in the long run that would be a mistake! DW is the way that it is because it attracts people to it by its unique make up of guests,viewers, and members. I like the fact that it has rules that are strictly enforced and moderated. (Even though we all push the limits of these rules sometimes! Myself included! LOL!) If this was a pay site and a member who had made large contributions began to break the rules, would there be a leniency towards his/her behavior because of large contributions that he/she had made to the site? I'm sure that this would become a factor or at least a topic of discussion either by members or staff when it became necessary to dicepline or banish someone for breaking the rules. I think that DW should stay just the way that it is for as long as it can. Making DW a pay site would only degrade it in the long term.
 
Thanks for all of your suggestions and advise...

First of All:

DRUMMERWORLD WEBSITE AND DRUMMERWORLD FORUM WILL STAY FREE OF CHARGE.

This was never put in question here from my side!

I came to the conclusion, that webcontent must be financed by advertising. Charging for Forums or Webcontent is probably a wrong concept and a sign of a general misunderstanding of what's going on here on the web now and in the near future.

So this:
There seems to be a confusion in terms between the Drummerworld Website and Drummerworld Forum.

The Drummerworld Forum is very active, but generates only 1.8% of the whole traffic volume of Drummerworld - which is 25 terabytes a month actually.

DrummerDrummer wrote:
I know that this is a business for Bernhard. If there was no money to be made, he wouldn't be doing it


Well this hurts, because it's completely wrong. When i started Drummerworld ten years ago nobody could know, that it gets to the No.1 place and stays there now for ten years. It started as a joke - got serious - and after have finished my 35 year business life as broker i sold all my business to good hands and do this Drummerworld thing just for fun as a hobby.

Of course now there are possibilities to earn money with Google ads and also Banner Ads in direct sale. But these numbers are not increasing and compared to my former activities: this is a very small business!!!

All in all: Running two servers in N.Y. - 25 terabites of traffic a month and keep it smooth running all the time (..watch the speed) is not so cheap as one might think.

When i do calculations now - and not counting my own manpower time - then the difference between invested money and cash back would give a real nice estate with swimming pool in Spain and some very nice luxury cars. So lucky me i need no more as i already have....

Streaming the Videos with YouTube would for sure be a very cheap and easy solution, but A NO GO for a serious website to keep independence like Drummerworld. By the way: Many of very exclusive clips would be removed from YouTube immediatly.


"I don't think I would pay right now because I don't use the site very much"
- This is friend IronCobra - 2157 Posts!!!

I would invite more people to join the DrummerWorld Community. As matter of fact, I do it actually and passing the word around.
- Thanks Ian, but please not, we don't look for more traffic or members....even when we are the only website in the world saying this: I really mean it!!!!


The Forum is moderated by Dog and Nutha: Thanks a lot guys!!!

The Website is done by myself alone. The only motivation was my love for drums and the wish to show the masters of this wonderful instrument to younger drummers to give motivation to them too. A nice sideeffect for me is of course the chance to meet so many great people all over the world with my travels.
Hopefully we can stay with it for some more time. When medical heart problems come up again or motivation leaves:
Gone for ever as everything just one click away....

Bernhard
 
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So many people don't understand about news on the web. Here in Australia, all the major newspapers jumped in and said: "OK - the web! Let's put our news online!" Then later, they found out that they were giving away what they had previously sold - for free. So the good writers get the sack; everything is hack pieces - now, now,now. No real depth to the sories and is that a surprise?

Would I pay for Drummerworld? Well yes - if the price was right - I would. I pay for iTunes. Everybody said that Jobs was crazy - but he put a reasonable price on a valuable resource and people pay it. And Apple do it to sell iPods - not music.

Thanks Bernhard. I love what you have done and I would like to see it continue.
 
Thanks for your input Bernhard. Very meaningful and profound words, regarding the essence of drums. I will stick to your request and I wish You peace, prosperity and health.

All The Best,
 
I guess no matter how many times we say it, uninformed people will continue to have the wrong idea. So be it.

The main DrummerWorld site and the forum are labors of love. Period. Bernhard set them up that way, as a gift to educate and inspire, and Jason and I knew the score when we signed on to assist. It is currently the longest running gig that I have ever had, and I wouldn't trade my non-existent paycheck for anything. Bernhard is a true friend and a gentleman, and it is an honor to be on his team.
 
I guess no matter how many times we say it, uninformed people will continue to have the wrong idea. So be it.

The main DrummerWorld site and the forum are labors of love. Period. Bernhard set them up that way, as a gift to educate and inspire, and Jason and I knew the score when we signed on to assist. It is currently the longest running gig that I have ever had, and I wouldn't trade my non-existent paycheck for anything. Bernhard is a true friend and a gentleman, and it is an honor to be on his team.
When I first stumbled upon DRUMMERWORLD, My first impression was exactly this. DW is Bernhard's labor of love! I realized that DW was a special place on the web that was not driven by profit goals. The fact that DW is like it is, Is the very thing that makes DW so great!
Bernhard is our friend! Bernhard is not a businessman who is trying to make money from a website. I don't know how or where some members got that idea, Or any other impression! I have never felt that way! DW is for us! And solely for us! I know in my heart that that's the way that Bernhard wants it to be.
We have also seen this very same sediment expressed from Bernhard many times. Both Dogbreath and Jason do a fine job of administrating Bernhards goals!
 
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Something that I really admire from people, it is their commitment - devotion - what they believe in and You have got that: Bernhard / DogBreath / Jason.
 
How on Earth can anyone believe that this is a make money site? In fact I'm pretty sure these print ads didn't even exist until 2007 at the earliest. Besides, look at this place. It's a shrine like obsession, and we're all the better for it.

It's also pretty silly to believe that any of us push this place along. Almost all of the traffic comes from the videos and the lessons. The forum is just gravy. In fact this forum is tiny compared to PDF, which for example has over 3000 viewing their general discussion section as we speak. And I'd be scoping the videos anyway here if there was no forum, rest assured. It's also us being connected to the site that make our discussions more credible in the eyes of most in the industry. We draw a better group than some of the whining fools at some places, while encouraging a wider cross section than those tragically hip sites that think they have all the answers but are only deluding themselves, when they discover that merchandisers and the larger number of pro drummers don't won't to be around a bunch of frustrated cocky guys mouthing off . Believe me, I've tried them all, and I always end up coming back here, because I'm already on the site anyway, because the site is why the forum exists.

And no, you don't get the same thing with youtube. You come here to see a tightly edited video that is so clear you can count the arm hairs. Try evaluating a traditional grip on youtube. I have, and can tell you without a doubt that it's tough to learn from a recycled foggy blur. And some of you middle school school guys try and deny that you haven't lifted Bernhard's bios for social studies reports, and called them your own work.

This site is unique to the world of percussion, and it's why other sites who are trying to be DW, who really are trying to make money, are envious of it. I know this is true because I lol at the comments they leave on their own forums every time DW wins a DRUMMIE and they don't. Then humorously enough, when these same people want to blatantly advertise some new little thing at their place, where do they come to first for a free plug? You guessed it, they come here. And they do so without contributing another thing to DW, and from what I observe, Bernhard lets it go. That's a pretty cool attitude if you ask me.

I'm sorry, but the other motive thing doesn't seem to fly here. I also don't buy this I work with websites baloney either. People who say they know all that stuff are always notorious for low balling the estimate, which is why I scrapped my website in the first place. Besides, how about the intellectual property and the actual material itself? Is that free?

bobdadrummer is also right about what happens when make these things pay for play. Go to the Buddy Rich site and see what's happened. That used to be a busy place. I'm a pretty cynical guy, but there has to be limits to the bitterness, geez.
 
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Just want to say thank you to Bernhard, Thomas, and Jason. I did assume that by now the 3 of you were getting some income for your efforts, I am surprised to hear this is not so. I have enjoyed and learned so much from this forum over the past 5 years that I feel a small fee would be very reasonable.

Bart, I was a long time lurker on your forum, never posted but I did register. I really like your site but didnt understand why I could no longer sign in, now I know.

DrummerWorld and Drummer Cafe have always been my favorite drum sites. Guess I need to pony up to get back into Barts site, and a donation to Bernhard should be made also.

Thanks guys,
Mike
 
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