Touring for no money

Dis-agree with all the doubters, free is in the spirit of things.

This is why the music business is so frustrating.

People think music is for the people, and should be free.

But it doesn't work the other way around.

I can't go to the grocery store and say "I need these groceries for free because I'm a musician" nor I can not pay rent/mortgage with a note saying "sorry, I made no money because my work is given away for free".

Of course, if I could, I'd be recording new songs every night.
 
This is why the music business is so frustrating.

People think music is for the people, and should be free.

But it doesn't work the other way around.

I can't go to the grocery store and say "I need these groceries for free because I'm a musician" nor I can not pay rent/mortgage with a note saying "sorry, I made no money because my work is given away for free".

Of course, if I could, I'd be recording new songs every night.

This is what I call hitting the nail on the head...
 
Man, it's hard enough just getting decent gigs in my hometown and making some money, much less touring. You have to wonder how much "successful" bands make touring and promoting an album or CD. With the way the economy is right now, if my band got signed and got an advance, I'd put that into a savings account and use it for the day I have to cough up the dough to payback my advance because the CD sales or tour profits didn't.

But if I were in my early twenties or late, late teens and saw this, I'd want to do it since I had no commitments at home and could afford to sleep in an RV for room and board.

Someone once said of a touring band member in a Country and Western band when they were dangling the carrot in front of him: "You may not make much money, but you'll get more women than Frank Sinatra".
 
The whole ad just rings of exploitation for mine.......one off tour....very little info.....guaranteed to get bumped as soon as it's over......all for no pay?!?!? Playing for 'exposure only'.....no guarantee of that either.

If it's your own act I think it's fair to play for the love of it......to be brought in as a hired gun and get nothing out of it.....to me just smells of 'rip off'. Perhaps I'm just too cynical.....but I doubt even at 20, this would have appealed to me.

Now if there was the prospect of a full time gig out of it......a whole 'nother story.
 
The area where I live is crawling with opportunities to "play for the exposure". These places offering this are clubs, bars, festivals, fund-raisers, and even "tours" promoted by some hacks just out to make a buck for themselves.

They post an ad and build themselves up and get your blood flowing because it sounds great, but at the end of the ad it's always the same thing: "We have no money to pay you, but this is an EXCELLENT opportunity to get your name out there and get exposure".

And as usual, plenty of youngsters fall for this. It's a shame.
 
Doing a freebie gig for a good cause is one thing, asking to TOUR without pay is insulting.
There will always be takers though and this is common knowledge, so why pay?
 
The whole ad just rings of exploitation for mine.......one off tour....very little info.....guaranteed to get bumped as soon as it's over......all for no pay?!?!? Playing for 'exposure only'.....no guarantee of that either.

Correct. There is no good exposure playing for up to 500 people who aren't interested in the opening band, especially not their temporary drummer.

Bermuda
 
I've done plenty of tours with no money in the end. It's really not that uncommon, but if the tour pays for itself you are basically getting a free vacation. I've played in 47 states as a result, had alot of fun and seen alot of cool stuff.

The worst day on the road is still better than the best day at the office.

I think at least these guys are being honest about the situation. Most of the time you get in a band and get all excited that your going to "make it" or "blow up".

It is still really hard to make a living on the road for anybody now. I'm doing a one week tour in Ireland this year, and I'll be happy if I break even. So far all the US tours i'm looking at this year are going to make some money, but they are basically going to be kept in the black by festivals and high paying civic gigs with club gigs in between.

Last year I did 4 tours, and they were "learning" experiences. The most profitable ones were the shorter regional tours 1-2 weeks long. I guess the key to making money was cutting our expenses down. Less hotels, ditching the trailer, less star bucks, more efficient scheduling. I'm not worried about it all though because we sold a ton of cd s, and laid a lot of groundwork for this year. We are going to drop a new cd and it will be a "return" on the investment.
 
Hey,

I was just about to post about how I would do it if I could, something about me being able to play my drums every night 'ticking a box in my CV of life' etc etc....

Then I thought about it and what's the point of doing it if basically lowers me down to a throw away conveniance. I work hard at playing the drums, I hold down a job partly so I can afford lessons/sticks/heads and so on. I spend hours in front of practice pad drumkit trying to better my abilities, when I could actually be spending that time with my g/f or friends or just having 'me time', I have a passion for playing the drums but I'm afraid that passion has limits.

I couldn't justify taking all that time out to play someone elses drum parts in someone elses band with people I don't know, just for a pat on the back and their definition of 'exposure'
 
This is why the music business is so frustrating.

People think music is for the people, and should be free.

But it doesn't work the other way around.

I can't go to the grocery store and say "I need these groceries for free because I'm a musician" nor I can not pay rent/mortgage with a note saying "sorry, I made no money because my work is given away for free".

Of course, if I could, I'd be recording new songs every night.

Maybe of you gave him a quick tune, he'd give you some free carrots...?
 
Maybe of you gave him a quick tune, he'd give you some free carrots...?

telecompig.jpg
 
Is that yours polly?.

And anyway, come to think of it plenty of musicians end up playing for booze when ticket sales are low. And in Glasow Scotland, you have to pay a fee for playing, and make it back, pay'd by ticket sales that "you" must sell to freinds and family, scandlous.
 
We just turned down a "batle of the bands". It was a scam by the promotion company. They sent us 100 preprinted tickets to sell, with our band's name on them, printed up real nice. Tickets were $8.00 for the show that included 8 - 10 bands. Each band played only 1/2 hour. The idea was for each band to sell as many tickets as they can, with the band selling the most tickets has the most fans there, and the audience voted on the bands they liked. The band with the most votes wins. So it's a popularity contest.

The kicker was that no matter how many tickets a band sells, it all goes to the promotor. Hence if a band sells 100 tickets for $8.00 thats $800 for the promotor, and none to the band doing all the advertising, leg work selling tickets, etc. Grand prize was $500 with some "free" studio time, which was donated by a local studio.

I can't write here what our members said after we found that out. There are kids on this forum, but needless to say, we sent all the tickets and information back to the promotor with "Thanks but NO THANKS"!
 
We just turned down a "batle of the bands". It was a scam by the promotion company. They sent us 100 preprinted tickets to sell, with our band's name on them, printed up real nice. Tickets were $8.00 for the show that included 8 - 10 bands. Each band played only 1/2 hour. The idea was for each band to sell as many tickets as they can, with the band selling the most tickets has the most fans there, and the audience voted on the bands they liked. The band with the most votes wins. So it's a popularity contest.

The kicker was that no matter how many tickets a band sells, it all goes to the promotor. Hence if a band sells 100 tickets for $8.00 thats $800 for the promotor, and none to the band doing all the advertising, leg work selling tickets, etc. Grand prize was $500 with some "free" studio time, which was donated by a local studio.

I can't write here what our members said after we found that out. There are kids on this forum, but needless to say, we sent all the tickets and information back to the promotor with "Thanks but NO THANKS"!
That same scam happened here not too long ago. We played at it and were only allowed to do 2 songs, (we were told 30 minutes, and found out it was only 2 songs day of show) and had to give a full accounting of our sold and unsold tickets before we were allowed to play.

One band was so mad about how the thing shaped up day of show that they basically left with a big finger to the organizers. Then, they showed up about an hour later with all their gear set up on the back of a flat bed with a generator, lights - the whole works, and played their whole set out in the parking lot. The venue practically emptied when everone stepped outside to see this band getting back at the scammers. That was pretty friggin' sweet!
 
I've just been through this with my band because I turned down a few gigs at "prestigious" clubs because of the lack of remuneration. My attitude was that if a club can't pay a band something even for the expense of band, gas, time, dinner, rehearsal . .then let's focus on clubs that will pay us. It just seems like a big take from my point of view, and maybe I'm just too old and too been there done that for it.

That is the nature of the music business. Big name acts charge these small acts to open for them. And most local acts would do it for free if it meant opening Madison Square Garden or The Filmore East here in NYC. Who wouldn't? There is a price for exposure and it is a very high price.

As far as the gig. If I were 20, I would do it. It's exposure. It's experience, and who knows what and who you will meet on the tour. If you're a good drummer, you could end up with the opening act. My friend toured with a big name act for years because he was the opener and became their keyboardist after the keyboardist left.
 
Interesting, opposing points of view here.

I've lost a months wages being on my current tour and won't see any profit on the other side, but did just have a month long vacation on the other side of the world and pretty much had the time of my life, all expenses except food (when we didn't get it worked into the deal), and booze (when we didn't get it worked into the deal) were covered. Well worth in in my opinion, but like other have said, depends where you are in life, wife and kids might not think it's as fun, but a 20 y/o with nothing but time could really benefit from the experience.
 
I've always been paid to tour. For the amount of suffering we go through to be on the road for 6 weeks, I gotta get paid. I can stay home and practice for free and have a fine time! So, to get me out of town, a band has to at least replace my normal weekly income.

This is why I do not join bands anymore. I've done tours where I was the only one to make any money, while the "real" band members didn't see a dime.

I love to tour, but I won't pay to do it, or do it for free. I'd be better off just booking a vacation, renting a car and hitting up jam nights in differnt towns than doing a van/club/floor tour for no money.

But that's just me! I'm old and jaded now!!! Some kid out there is gonna have a great time, so more power too him!

t
 
I would do it, and I would be happy doing it. You have to get experience/exposure somehow.

I took an unpaid internship at a company and a few months later they were offering me a full-time job in the worst job market in decades. Sometimes you gotta do what's best for you.

That is a good way to view it, as an unpaid internship. Actually, this one pays for your food and lodging, which is more than any other unpaid internship! For someone who is young and eager, this is a good way to build a resume at an entry-level position.
 
Interesting, opposing points of view here.

I've lost a months wages being on my current tour and won't see any profit on the other side, but did just have a month long vacation on the other side of the world and pretty much had the time of my life, all expenses except food (when we didn't get it worked into the deal), and booze (when we didn't get it worked into the deal) were covered. Well worth in in my opinion, but like other have said, depends where you are in life, wife and kids might not think it's as fun, but a 20 y/o with nothing but time could really benefit from the experience.

Yes, looking at your NZ tour thread you obviously had a great time. We don't get paid for holidays and since we love playing music so a musical holiday doesn't sound so painful to me, as long as it's fairly well organised.

A young person without spouse, kids or serious work could have a whale of a time. For someone like that maybe exposure is not so much the lure of a tour like that so much as experience.
 
Interesting, opposing points of view here.

I've lost a months wages being on my current tour and won't see any profit on the other side, but did just have a month long vacation on the other side of the world and pretty much had the time of my life, all expenses except food (when we didn't get it worked into the deal), and booze (when we didn't get it worked into the deal) were covered. Well worth in in my opinion, but like other have said, depends where you are in life, wife and kids might not think it's as fun, but a 20 y/o with nothing but time could really benefit from the experience.

Many of us would do that if it was our band, and working toward something (i.e. future record sales, opportunities to tour better venues, recognition, etc..)

It's something else when you're just a temp helping the rest of the band work toward something.

If the band's tour is successful at the getting them to sell X number of albums and X number of t-shirts and gain x number of fans, that all helps the band (even if it's just helping pay down some debt), but the temp gets no benefit, other than say he was there.

But yeah, the early 20-something version of me would have still considered it.
 
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