Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Bermuda - Sorry if I missed this, but how do you think the signet drums sound compared to other ludwig offerings? Similar or eeven identical to classic maples?
 
some nice coated heads and no one will notice the tearout ( breakout) on the inside of the shells. im liking these more and more, I almost wish I needed another kit. btw, the factory finished interiors of my Ludwig 3ply maples is really crappy up close. no one used to bitch about that did they? give it chance guys
Not dissing the drums at all, in fact, if you look back at my posts on this thread, I'm complimenting them. Regarding this post, I was answering a specific point raised by others, & suggesting it's an easy fix in manufacture.
 
Not dissing the drums at all, in fact, if you look back at my posts on this thread, I'm complimenting them. Regarding this post, I was answering a specific point raised by others, & suggesting it's an easy fix in manufacture.

not directed at you, besides some large badges from another manufacturer, you don't diss any brand of drums. a lot of people seem to be grasping at anything they can to make these drums look bad. I did quote you so I can see how it looked directed at you.
 
Good on Ludwig for going in some new directions. As Andy said, they really are damned-if-they-do and damned-if-they-don't. I'd like to sit behind a set and play them. Just based on what I'm reading and seeing, seems like a really cool concept.
 
I will check the 12" demo tom at NAMM and see if there's anything going on there. The lugs are constantly being removed and re-inserted, and would definitely show wear if it was occurring.

Bermuda

Actually the partially assembled demo tom had the cleanest holes.

I was referring to the kits that were already assembled.

Jon, I think the implication is the splintering is from machining of the holes, not the removal & replacement of the lugs. "Breakout" is a very common issue when drilling wood, especially on thin sections & on larger holes. If the drilling operation is performed at speed, the chances of such damage occurring on the hole exit is greatly increased. There are special tools available that minimise such damage, so if it's an issue, I'm sure Ludwig can have that solved fairly quickly. It looks bad, but it's not a major flaw.

^ This was my assessment too based on seeing multiple kits up close.
 
I think all of the speculation is fruitless and time will tell. When someone gets a kit and spends some time playing and banging it around we will see. But as I said in a previous post I'm sure Ludwig didn't design, build, and assemble the kits for NAMM and for sale without some banging about before hand. I have had to tighten lugs on my drums before just as a normal thing. We will see.
 
But as I said in a previous post I'm sure Ludwig didn't design, build, and assemble the kits for NAMM and for sale without some banging about
No, Ludwig decided to do the General Motors Chevy Vega Thing :)
If you don't know what I am talking about, research the Chevy Vega. It was an early seventies car that had a seriously flawed engine design. The idiots who lead General Motors at the time decided to release the car to production anyway. It was a disaster.
No business person in their right frame of mind would ever do such a thing again.
 
I think all of the speculation is fruitless and time will tell. When someone gets a kit and spends some time playing and banging it around we will see. But as I said in a previous post I'm sure Ludwig didn't design, build, and assemble the kits for NAMM and for sale without some banging about before hand. I have had to tighten lugs on my drums before just as a normal thing. We will see.

Well, as the old adage goes, you only have one time to make a first impression.

It's not as if this info was stuff that was leaked out in advance before it was ready. This is them making a formal presentation to the drum industry.
 
I checked out a Signet kit at my local GC. It was the 20, 14, 12 set with stock clear heads on the kick and floor tom and a coated Evans batter on the 12". They weren't set up, just stacked in a corner but I took each drum and one by one gave them a few taps. I was surprised at how good they sounded, even the FT with the stock heads. The kick was tuned too low to really sound good.

What really got me as far as first impressions was how fragile the kit felt. Bermuda hinted at this when he said that this would not be a "beater" kit. The hoops on the BD flexed noticeably when I picked it up. I also noticed the tearout on the holes.

Really good sounding kit although I think I would rather buy a used Luddy if I wanted an American made Ludwig.
 
Where are the actual sound samples from the drums?

We shot video of me doing a little kick/tom thing on the Signet, Keystone, Classic Maple and Legacy kits for comparison purposes. I don't know yet how the audio turned out, but if the camera's mic didn't capture a decent sound, there's no point posting it.

The Signets were displayed with clear heavy Ludwig batters, which is how they're shipped, and the other kits have coated mediumLudwig batters, which I believe is how they're shipped. It doesn't make for a true apples-to-apples, although the Signets sounded great on their own. I just prefer a different head on the essentially Classic Maple shell. Something a little thinner would sing better, especially on the 10 & 12" tomsm, and i'm sure a 2-ply would bring out a nice punch.

Anyway, hopefully the video will yield a representative sound, and you'll be able to tell how the Signets stack up.

Bermuda - Sorry if I missed this, but how do you think the signet drums sound compared to other ludwig offerings? Similar or eeven identical to classic maples?

They're most akin to Classic Maples, but I wouldn't think identical, due to the Signet's dual 45 edge (also found on the Keystones.)

Since I was the most hands-on with tuning and demoing the Signets at the show, I will also be field-testing them at upcoming gigs and rehearsals. :)

Jon, I think the implication is the splintering is from machining of the holes, not the removal & replacement of the lugs. "Breakout" is a very common issue when drilling wood, especially on thin sections & on larger holes. If the drilling operation is performed at speed, the chances of such damage occurring on the hole exit is greatly increased. There are special tools available that minimise such damage, so if it's an issue, I'm sure Ludwig can have that solved fairly quickly. It looks bad, but it's not a major flaw.

On the other hand Ian, I agree. Allowing damaged shells to be displayed at your product launch is very surprising indeed.

I saw some very minor blowout on the finish side of the holes, but not the inner shell. the maple side is clean as a whistle. I don't know what possible effect that could have on anything, and the lug more than covers it.

There was a subsequent comment about the same problem at the bearing edge, but I didn't know I was supposed to look for that, and didn't happen to notice it. I will check the drums I brought home. :)

Bermuda
 
What really got me as far as first impressions was how fragile the kit felt. Bermuda hinted at this when he said that this would not be a "beater" kit. The hoops on the BD flexed noticeably when I picked it up.

I don't think the drums are fragile, I just wouldn't expect the kick spurs to dig-in like the heavy-duty DW, Pearl, etc. if pounding the kit. I don't play any of my drums that way to begin with, so it won't be an issue for me.

I don't know how the kick hoops are, but I did a pressure test on the top of the kick - I pushed down on it with the heel of my hand, and my full torso weight - and there was almost no 'give'. It's my intention to put a tom mount on the shell, and I have no concerns about putting both toms on it. :)

Again, I will be testing the drums, and report the results using different heads, and also heavier playing than they got at NAMM.

Bermuda
 
So does that mean that kit number 31 has been acquired? Lovely! I just have to get to kit number 2 and then I'm off! I like these drums and have a feeling that they could be good juju...but I am always a bit reticent about first incarnation stuff. Cars especially. Let 'em get the kinks out and then get the sucka. We will certainly see.....
 
I saw some very minor blowout on the finish side of the holes, but not the inner shell. the maple side is clean as a whistle. I don't know what possible effect that could have on anything, and the lug more than covers it.

There was a subsequent comment about the same problem at the bearing edge, but I didn't know I was supposed to look for that, and didn't happen to notice it. I will check the drums I brought home. :)

Bermuda
I was just putting some production rationale to comments/observations mage by others, & also highlighting it's not a big deal, plus sort of expected on a kit of this price range. Also, it's an easy fix, if you know what specialist tooling to use. Deploy standard wood drills/bits, try to run everything through quickly, & you'll get these issues.
 
Also, it's an easy fix, if you know what specialist tooling to use. Deploy standard wood drills/bits, try to run everything through quickly, & you'll get these issues.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the composition of the outer-ply? I didn't see any weirdness on the holes from the inside.

I'll inspect the drums more closely when I change the heads.

Bermuda
 
I like these drums and have a feeling that they could be good juju...but I am always a bit reticent about first incarnation stuff. Cars especially. Let 'em get the kinks out and then get the sucka. We will certainly see.....

I agree about that kind of stuff, and if I hadn't worked with them in person, I might not be as excited if they were sending them to mke 'blind'. And when I say excited, I mean that they sounded great with heads I normally wouldn't use. There's a lot of potential with a few of the heads I prefer. I know the sound is just one of the aspects I need to check out, and that will weight heavily in the final summation, as that's ultimately what we need from our drums (and cymbals.)

Bermuda
 
I wonder if it has anything to do with the composition of the outer-ply? I didn't see any weirdness on the holes from the inside.

I'll inspect the drums more closely when I change the heads.

Bermuda
I think the members who saw issues were referring to breakout on the inside of the shell, but if the outer laminate is brittle, it's quite possible to get damage on the entrance cut of the hole too.

Specialist wood drill technology has come a long way in the past few years. There are dedicated drill bits that deal with both of these issues. They're designed for use in fast production machines too, so don't entirely rely on "taking it easy" to effect a good result, although slowing down the drilling cycle & reducing tool pressure on the piece is always a prudent move.

These special drill bits are expensive, but in the overall scheme of things, much cheaper than fielding customer complaints. I'm happy to provide specific model/form/source information to the relevant ludwig production member by PM if that's useful/welcome. I've just bought several examples of different speciality bits for our finishing shop. Source is Germany, but I do know of at least one US supplier who has some of the ranges I refer to, depending on Ludwig's machine configuration.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX3jyXt7Alk
Ludwig NAMM 2014 - Drum Sounds. DSCN3403
:)

Nice, and they were definitely applauding for me... very happy that I stopped!

This didn't sound bad at all, but there are differences between the series that didn't translate, such as the warmth & oomph of the Classic Maple kick, which was really really nice!

If anything, it serves to confirm what I said about the new line fitting nicely with the others.

Bermuda
 
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