Pat Metheny on Kenny G and other Jazz greats

Jay, I know that right from the beginning you and I knew what Abe was up to!

The "Number One Song That Defines Jazz" thread comes to my mind.

The main question is What we knew and When we knew it! Congress wants to ask us some questions!
 
Do you think that it is somewhat of a myth that each generation comes to believe, that everything is in decline? They said that at the turn of the century too, and with jazz in the 1920s.
I don't believe that that's a myth at all. I've been hearing that musically the sky is falling since I first picked up sticks 30 years ago, and I'm sure sure I'll still hear echos of it from my grave.

I stopped worrying about the sky falling years ago. Music just changes and morphs. That's what it does. There has always been a lot of crap around, but there have always been gems in every era to be found by those willing to seek them out.
 
. Metal is different because it is about selling and marketing music; it is a music made for mass consumption;]

That has to be the single dumbest statement I've ever read on this site.

Thousands of bands out there would disagree with that.

There are 101 variations of metal, and most of them are NOT made for mass consumption.

where as for quite some time jazz has been a music that is made by many purely for the artistic and expressionistic aspects of the genre,
Again, you're only discussing bop, post bob, and ignoring the tons of rather commercial jazz that existed long before bebop came along.

Geez, people, read a history book already.
 
Hey Bob! What about setting to the tune "Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin'"? Put a little Kenny G horn on that sucker and you're all set!

No, it would be a disgrace to Steve Perry!!!! :p

Er, wait...Steve Smith played on that track, and he's considered a jazz guy now. Does that make it a legit track now?

Can we dial up the Deen Castranovo version?
 
Oh my goodness, Bob, that brings back memories!
It does, It certainly does!
Remember when I said that Stairway To Heaven could be a jazz song if one followed the definition of jazz in the dictionary?
Crazy Fun Times Man, crazy Fun Times! I had a Blast and I know that you did also.
 
Metal is different because it is about selling and marketing music; it is a music made for mass consumption; where as for quite some time jazz has been a music that is made by many purely for the artistic and expressionistic aspects of the genre, and truthfully musicians who make popular jazz know the difference.

That's just plain silly. Anything that is released by a record company is about marketing and selling music. Take Esperanza Spalding, for example.

And although I don't know much about metal music I can guarantee that those musicians who play it, some of whom are incredible players, know the difference between crap metal music and the metal music that is about the "artistic and expressionistic aspects of the genre."
 
That has to be the single dumbest statement I've ever read on this site.

Thousands of bands out there would disagree with that.

There are 101 variations of metal, and most of them are NOT made for mass consumption.


Again, you're only discussing bop, post bob, and ignoring the tons of rather commercial jazz that existed long before bebop came along.

Geez, people, read a history book already.

I have a master's in music history and have done doctoral work in music history, so I've read quite a few history books already.

Yes, but we've been down this line already. The fact is that jazz became a music of purely musical explorations, and that has happened for metal as well. so jazzers get all bent out of shape when you call them snobs for loving that part of it, but look how bent out of shape you got when I suggested that metal was not an artistic endeavor.
 
It does, It certainly does!
Remember when I said that Stairway To Heaven could be a jazz song if one followed the definition of jazz in the dictionary?

Yes I do. That's back when I was being a real prick. I'm sure my response was indignant and arbitrary.

We go through things, you know? And then we see how foolish, how defensive and stupid we've been.

It sure is nice to come out on the other side of all that and just be able to actually dig on life and people without lugging around all that old decrepit baggage!
 
If you go back to my post number 46 I think that I gave away the goat back then.
That is when I let it slip that I was just messing around.
We are all Tools in one of Abe's jazz threads!
I said it then.
 
But Abe has been upfront with that all along.

I am sorry that I am actually trying to have a reasonable discussion on concepts that some may think arbitrary and others may not; but whether or not you think someone is being a prick, well I never got banned, you're in here to, maybe being more careful; but you do have a point of view. And you're both still pricks.:)

Anyway, people should read the posts, after all that, he still went for it.
 
If you go back to my post number 46 I think that I gave away the goat back then.

Well, why didn't you give me the goat? I've been wanting to have a goat in my back yard ever since I moved into this house.

I would have paid for shipping, you know.
 
Ken, The whole thing was one of Abe's jokes right from the start.
I saw it in the first post.
I laughed my ass off!
 
But Ken, jazz was about rebellion in much the same way as rock was. Then it developed its own traditions. Personally, I've never cared a bit about tradition in any part of life. As a bit of an outsider (by inclination, not choice) tradition has always represented to me a sense of rejection, and with a healthy dose of LCD. To me "tradition" = "the bastards who have dissed me" lol

So my sympathies have always been with progressivism and traditional stuff to me has only been a tool - prior learning from which I can pick and choose the bits I like - but nothing to feel terribly fond of. Pat's reverence is utterly foreign to me. That's insider talk, not my talk.

In that sense I'm maybe not an ideal person to talk about this issue because I cannot understand the concept of reverence for tradition. It has always completely passed me by in all areas of life.

Deltadrummer said:
It's funny because folks say the 1980s were the demise of great music. Older folks say it was the 70s and Led Zeppelin especially. Then when that rock and roll came in in the 50s it destroyed everything. Do you think that it is somewhat of a myth that each generation comes to believe, that everything is in decline? They said that at the turn of the century too, and with jazz in the 1920s.

How true! I do think that the 80s heralded the final takeover of The Music BUSINESS, as opposed to The MUSIC Business. It had been heading that way for a while. The 60s and early 70s were times of unbridled creativity, discovery and experimentation, although there was still lots of pap in the top 40. In 1970 The Doors released Morrison Hotel and Led Zep released LZ III. The same year Tony Orlando's Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree dominated in the No 1 spot, with Jud Strunk's Daisy a Day in #2 spot.
 
My God, I just poured myself a glass of Russian Vodka with ice and I can't drink it because I'm re-reading these post. I'm laughing so hard right now!
 
That's it Polly. I think you put the nail on it again. The recording was the last straw for Pat..

I think it would be interesting to talk about a rock equivalent, now that rock is becoming enshrined in the sacred halls. When the Brits first started doing blues the aficionados complained; but the artist themselves weren't the ones complaining. There was ELP, which Lester Bangs said ruined rock and roll. Prog rock defiled the 'sacred' profanity of rock and roll. It was a war crime. LA Metal comes under the heading of inter-sexualizing the genre. So even though purists decried it, at home, everyone was happy.

But really, rock and roll is about rebellion. Can you do anything to defile it?

It's funny because folks say the 1980s were the demise of great music. Older folks say it was the 70s and Led Zeppelin especially. Then when that rock and roll came in in the 50s it destroyed everything. Do you think that it is somewhat of a myth that each generation comes to believe, that everything is in decline? They said that at the turn of the century too, and with jazz in the 1920s.

"Geez Bob !!! You're......Like.....A Rolling Stone....or something."
 
Stan, I'm sorry if you were offended in any way by all of this.
I wouldn't want to see you be hurt.
 
Ken, I honestly wanted to let you in on this but you were so perfect that I just couldn't!
I apologize to you most of all!
You were truly just a victim that was caught up in this.
 
But Ken, jazz was about rebellion in much the same way as rock was. Then it developed its own traditions. Personally, I've never cared a bit about tradition in any part of life. As a bit of an outsider (by inclination, not choice) tradition has always represented to me a sense of rejection, and with a healthy dose of LCD. To me "tradition" = "the bastards who have dissed me" lol

So my sympathies have always been with progressivism and traditional stuff to me has only been a tool - prior learning from which I can pick and choose the bits I like - but nothing to feel terribly fond of. Pat's reverence is utterly foreign to me. That's insider talk, not my talk.

In that sense I'm maybe not an ideal person to talk about this issue because I cannot understand the concept of reverence for tradition. It has always completely passed me by in all areas of life.



How true! I do think that the 80s heralded the final takeover of The Music BUSINESS, as opposed to The MUSIC Business. It had been heading that way for a while. The 60s and early 70s were times of unbridled creativity, discovery and experimentation, although there was still lots of pap in the top 40. In 1970 The Doors released Morrison Hotel and Led Zep released LZ III. The same year Tony Orlando's Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree dominated in the No 1 spot, with Jud Strunk's Daisy a Day in #2 spot.


True, and there was a lot of feminist rebellion in there as well. A lot of the rebellion in jazz was about segregation. But these guys knew their music. I think that it is amazing many of them could play like they did by ear.

Rock rebellion was pure as well, esp when it was about the war; but even when punk was about expressing class conflict. it really became rebellion about noting though. lol

Maybe you would understand this. I actually thought that after all we discussed, this guy would have the respect to realize where I was coming from when I goated him. But he tells me to read a history book, after all the posts where I think if anything one should realize I know my music history.
 
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