Birch Drums: Eames vs. Recording Customs

Then you could easily say YAMAHA makes hardware and they assemble it on SAKAE shells.

Not even. They have been in partnership for a LONG time. Air seal and diagonal seam is completely Yamaha. Where can I buy a Sakae shell and put drummaker parts on it ?
 
Not even. They have been in partnership for a LONG time. Air seal and diagonal seam is completely Yamaha. Where can I buy a Sakae shell and put drummaker parts on it ?


They're not YAMAHA shell's is the reality, SAKAE makes them for them, no matter how long its been happening.

As DIRT has already stated EAMES has been in the drum making business longer than YAMAHA has been and using SAKAE shells.

EAMES is a custom manufacturer. YAMAHA/SAKAE not, so no one would expect to buy their shell's unfinished.
 
FWIW, I'm glad this thread exists because in my ignorance I never heard of Eames and I'm glad I now have been shown the light.

I'm thinking it is time to own a 100 percent birch kit.
 
I had a set of Eames drums made for me in 1982. I still have them but lent them to a friends kid. They are wonderful sounding instruments. So are The RC's. I don't know that you can make a bad choice between the 2. Hard choice for sure.
You will probably get better finishes on the RC's. The paint job on my Eames shells did not knock me out, but maybe they have improved since the early 80's. The sound is beyond reproach though.
 
Hard choice for sure.
You will probably get better finishes on the RC's. The paint job on my Eames shells did not knock me out, but maybe they have improved since the early 80's. The sound is beyond reproach though.

Thanks for the many excellent points raised in this thread. The hardware concerns are a good point, as well as the typical resale argument, but I think Larry hits the problem on the head: it is a hard choice precisely because both are quite good ultimately--it is a fine line. Hence the dilemma.

I do like the fact that Yamaha/Sakae have mastered the RC hardware for decades now--tried and true stuff--compared to the mostly standard fair Pearl Masters series hardware that Joe Mac has on hand at Eames (unless, as others have noted, you provide the hardware yourself). So, Yamaha clearly has the advantage on the hardware and resale value points, it seems. However, as Larry notes, the Eames kits and snares do indeed sound great--it really is an Eames sound that is handcrafted, given that Joe makes the shells and goes against the grain with his shell plies and thicknesses. He does have the FineTone 6-ply/roughly 6.3mm shell (closer to the specs of most mass-produced kits these days), but, from what I've gathered from Joe and some Eames players, the real flagship is the NaturalTone 9-ply/9.5mm birch shell--a shell makeup not as common these days. That's what attracted me to Eames--the sound is clear and clean and different from the classic RC sound. But both are still attractive sounds and kits.
 
RobertM; your in the Eames ballpark with your statements! My preference is the Finetone and that model is the closest to YRC because of the thickness of the shell walls. The Natural-Tone is Eames
"all purpose" shells because they are a flexable application to use in all kinds of music settings. (I've owned 2 Nat.)( one Finetone) My reasons for the Finetone preference is they produce more bottom end and resonant more, thats all.
As for an advantage with hardware that would clearly be Eames because of the wider range of choices. Hell you could use Yamaha if you think its the best. Your not sending Yamaha a box of vintage Slingerland gear, they're not doing it hahahaha!!!! But a custom maker will do it thats why their custom (customer friendly).
I stated I played and owned both companies sets and all though I am a YRC supported and often times suggest that model to people looking to up grade from mid-line gear the Eames is a handcrafted American made product with years of tradition and excellance. Joe worked under Ralph who was a great craftsman and his skills were taught to Joe and Joe has added his own personality to the drums. When two men basicly work one at a time in a home grown company filled with excellance that for me out classes a segment of a world wide operation (Yamaha Inc.) who produces multi-products and componients.
Having a discussion about these two fine instruments just gets ridiculous when one or more parties have never owned them. Everyone has opinions but what your opinion is based on makes your opinion a valid one. Other than that its just BS'ing its like listening to someone talk about drumming but they never sat in the seat. BS'ers!! Doc
 
I only have a limited amount of input here, as I've only owned one Eames-shelled drum. That was a snare custom built for me on a VERY thick Eames shell with Rogers Dynasonic hardware. I wish I could remember the number of plies, but I cannot.

Sadly, I really did not like the drum, but it was my fault, I guess. I fell to the hype that a really thick shell would do this or that, without having heard one. And for me, the thick shell did not work - personal preference, I just did not care for the sound. This was WAY before the internet and YouTube, sound samples, etc, so I really had no way of comparing before I ordered, as I knew of no one with one of these drums to give a listen to. So, I got rid of it. And resale value was not good, compared to what I paid! LOL

But the shell did seem to be well built, I guess. I did not like the way the outer ply seam was finished, being used to a smooth butted-joint seam, but that was the only negative. The builder did the finish work in a nice walnut stain.

So that's all I can tell you. I know it's not really a comparison of YRC vs Eames, but it's all the experience I've got with Eames. Good luck with your decision.
 
They're not YAMAHA shell's is the reality, SAKAE makes them for them, no matter how long its been happening.

EAMES is a custom manufacturer. YAMAHA/SAKAE not, so no one would expect to buy their shell's unfinished.

Come on Les Is More. That is silly. Sakae is not cranking out shells for whomever to use. Yamaha/Sakae have been an integral part of each other for their entire relationship. The way the shells are built IS NOT because of Sakae.. Yamaha began that themselves, and in turn had Sakae copy the Yamaha way for the shells they build. This is from Yamaha themselves :

"Many drummers who are familiar with Yamaha today believe that Sakae Rhythm was the original Yamaha production facility, but in fact production was started at Yamaha’s
own factories. Another common misconception is that our Air Seal System was developed at Sakae Rhythm, but it was actually developed and introduced
right from the rst models that were produced at our own factories. One of the earliest Yamaha drum brochures shows the original Yamaha production facility and describes Air Seal System technology, a Yamaha innovation that is a vital part of our identity as a drum manufacturer to this day
."
 
As DIRT has already stated EAMES has been in the drum making business longer than YAMAHA has been and using SAKAE shells.

EAMES is a custom manufacturer. YAMAHA/SAKAE not, so no one would expect to buy their shell's unfinished.

This is also completely ridiculous.. Number of years has nothing to do with experience. Number of shells hand crafted does. Yamaha is on a completely different level with regard to experience through HUGE volume. Eames probably did in 25 years the same amount that Yamaha did BY HAND in a few years.

.. and Eames is not really "custom". They just assemble drummaker parts and other mfg's parts on their shells. Nothing more., and not a bad thing.. just what it is.
 
Come on Les Is More. That is silly. Sakae is not cranking out shells for whomever to use. Yamaha/Sakae have been an integral part of each other for their entire relationship. The way the shells are built IS NOT because of Sakae.. Yamaha began that themselves, and in turn had Sakae copy the Yamaha way for the shells they build. This is from Yamaha themselves :

"Many drummers who are familiar with Yamaha today believe that Sakae Rhythm was the original Yamaha production facility, but in fact production was started at Yamaha’s
own factories. Another common misconception is that our Air Seal System was developed at Sakae Rhythm, but it was actually developed and introduced
right from the rst models that were produced at our own factories. One of the earliest Yamaha drum brochures shows the original Yamaha production facility and describes Air Seal System technology, a Yamaha innovation that is a vital part of our identity as a drum manufacturer to this day
."

Agreed!..Yamaha and Sakae have worked so closely together for so long that they are almost thought of as the same company...Sakae isn't a drum builder for hire..and Yamaha Engineering is what makes Yamaha drums unique/special...developing special (working) relationships in business just doesn't happen in music it also happens in other industries....in my profession (aerospace) the company I work for also has similar relationships...but at the end of the day everything that is made is made to my company's specifications...
 
Huge volumn====I thought they didn't mass produce??? If Eames isn't a custom drum maker "what is a custom drum maker".!
honestly you don't know what your talking about you never dealt with the Eames co. you never played a kit or owned one yet comment as if you did. Doc
 
Huge volume of hand made shells for a real drum company. This does not mean some robot factory spitting out a product. And Yamaha is not Drummaker parts on shells. I don't need to play a shell to know what I see. You are the one who does not know what you are talking about..
 
............What Model EAMES do you Play?................................Doc.








waste of time talking to people who make comments on a drum company but have never played or owned the product. Kids, all yak no substance.
 
............What Model EAMES do you Play?................................Doc.








waste of time talking to people who make comments on a drum company but have never played or owned the product. Kids, all yak no substance.

I don't know, Doc. He hasn't said anything (good or bad) about how Eames sound. And he hasn't really stated any incorrect factual data that I am aware of. Just seems you guys have different views about what company you would rather deal with.

I don't think anybody is gonna win this pissing match - it's just a matter of opinion. So it probably IS a waste of time... None of the argument between you and Artstar seems like it would help the original poster decide between the two drums, anyway. You've already both stated your opinions.

Just an observer's view.
 
Yamaha and Sakae have worked so closely together for so long that they are almost thought of as the same company...

Except SAKAE is making their own line of drums... to the same spec, or better is the question. They know what YAMAHA shell's are all about, why would they not try and do better?

If SAKE was just a supplier of shells to YAMAHA you might have a grounds for a solid partnership argument, but their making their own line of drums now and they're not giving them away. There's a name for that in the business world.

GRETSCH made their own shells at one time having been in business since the 19th century. The fact is, YAMAHA doesn't make all their own shells and EAMES does make all their own shells.

Being very familiar with the two I can say I'd rather order a set from EAMES and get what I want on it (truly custom) as opposed to settling for what YAMAHA wants to give me. YAMAHA is great product, has a sound, but I prefer the sound of EAMES birch shells over YAMAHA.

I may be able to order custom sizes from YAMAHA, but if I ask them to put a different pair of bass drum spurs on the kick (or AQUARIAN heads etc.), it ain't gonna happen, they're not a custom drum manufacture. With EAMES you can order what you want, YAMAHA you have to agree to what their offering you. If then you have a choice, why would you settle for something? It helps to know what you want though.

If you're looking strictly at resale, you're probably going to have to settle for less than you expected with any drum co, maybe you could get lucky.

So is EAMES just as legit a drum co. as YAMAHA? I say yes. Spares, repairs/matching, all will be easier with EAMES than YAMAHA who a just too big, and too small at the same time to make a difference when it comes to support. Buy an EAMES kit and they'll treat you like family. YAMAHA... be patient, you're just another customer.
 
Sakae just barely came out with their own drum line. Sakae only had a partnership with Yamaha from decades and decades ago BECAUSE they DID WHAT YAMAHA HAD THEM AGREE WITH.

You can't get random Drummaker spurs or parts on a Yamaha drum because they ARE NOT YAMAHA PARTS. THEY ARE NOT A DRUMMAKER or PRECISION DRUM or DRUMFOUNDRY Assembler. If you ask Yamaha to do that they will laugh at you and have a sake.

Yamaha is a REAL DRUM COMPANY WITH REAL YAMAHA PARTS.

Eames makes nice shells that they will put on Drummaker parts or random Drum Manufacturers.
 
I think you can see Yamaha between a custom company and a mass production.

Yes they make a lot of drums in a month/year, hand made, around 60 men of personnel witch don't do anything other then what they do on thee line their WHOLE life and dedicated (Japanese social culture etc.)

That said, I think both Yamaha and Eamse are the best in what they do. Sound is personal and goes even further then that (heads, tuning, atmosphere, location, time etc) so discussing that can be fun but will be an never ending story ;)


Regarding Yamaha's customer service, they had their flaws back in the days but I think it is superb now (maybe because a customer doesn't accept less these days) especially in the States (where I know the Drums & DTX team, live for us the costumer)
 
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