the Dualist debate...

osamasgoat5467 said:
It looks so cheaply made. Is that pink and black plastic??
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Indeed it is made of plastic, but it's incredibly strong. It's made of Zytel, the same stuff they use for car engine parts. This is the early 21st century so don't be too surprised there's a plastic that has the strength of steel at a fraction of the weight.

And yes, that is an unabashedly hot pink logo sticker on the footboard. This is a drum pedal, not a cello, so a little flamboyance is understandable.
 
the zytel was an interesting way to go, but i found that it made the pedal feel kinda jumpy. with all the tension that those two springs create, it felt almost like the pedal was going to jump up in the air on the upstroke.a heavier mount might have made it feel a little nicer, and i have to agree that the hot pink lettering was a little offsetting....(insert lighthearted "finally, a drum pedal made for girls" joke here).
 
Strangely enough, I was messing around with my pedal, and the thing is that heavy, that when it's not clamped onto the bass drum, it actually builds up enough momentum, and starts swinging both beaters! It loooked like a bloody Duallist when I was doing it...
 
guess what, people? I ordered my Duallist double pedal about 3 months ago and have been tinkering with its setup and feel, which i find to be the ONLY thing wrong with the duallist (it takes lots of patience and trial and error to get the pedal in proper place to your liking). and now that derrick has put out his videos on these awesome techniques, not only will i be able to master moeller and heel/toe technique, but since i have a duallist i can take it one step further and see how the heel/toe can affect double beaters on one pedal...can you imagine what can come of this?

oh the possibilities...for those skeptical about the duallist just know that if you are willing to put in the necessary time to set it up and get the maximum feel you want, you can achieve everything double pedal players can do, and more. you can accent your rolls without having to consciously think about making more than one stroke or move. and what about THREE beaters on TWO pedals? for those who are all about the traditional double pedal, duallist offers double pedal experts the chance to play three beaters at once! crazy man...but for now im sticking with the double duallist and see what kinds of rhythms i can create.

i don't know why there is so much hate surrounding the duallist. like someone posted earlier, if we listened to those crying "CHEATER" we would still be beating on animal skin drums with big mallets...
 
Wow. I am really flabberghasted by this whole thread. And to think I sat around wondering why in the hell we don't have a workable 1 lug tuning system for drums (Arbiter), so I can tune my drums ON the stand. Things move on guys. What used to take hundreds of men with shovels, now takes one bulldozer. Double pedal was widely regarded as "cheating" when it first came out, now it is common. And so it goes. Let me just toss one thing back, that I have heard over and over again


A GOOD drummer serves the music, not his ego.

That is directly from many, many drummers in this group. If you can find a way to make the dualist serve the music, use it, and laugh all the way to the bank. Nuff said, and I'm done.
 
CodeGuy said:
And to think I sat around wondering why in the hell we don't have a workable 1 lug tuning system for drums (Arbiter)
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isnt that system brilliant? whoever invented that needs better marketing people. drummers should be marching in the streets to get that universalized. but i bet only a handful of people even on this forum know what were talking about. also, always wanted to try out a flats kit. they just look so cool!
 
It is brilliant. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why it has never become popular. Well, after reading this thread I can sort of see why, not understand, but see why. I actually thought about writing Arbiter and going into drum building just to try and do my bit to popularize that tuning system.
 
They are popular, amongst orchestral percussionists. It is to my understanding that modern tunable Tympani use a one-lug system so that you can change the note instantaneously with a pedal.
 
the duallist isnt exactly good, but it isnt exactly bad either. if you could set it up so that it sounds flawless hey congratulations. then again i dont think it'll sound good if say, you tried to do moeller or heel toe on the pedal that has the two beaters. i think the duallist is just a high speed triplet pedal mechanism. kinda like overspeeding gadd's ramaques on the kick.

innovations are really helpful yeah, but some just are annoying in a way that we rely on the machines more than we rely on ourselves. if this continues, i predict a duallist with two beaters connected to a pedal totalling four pedals [which btw, imo, i think is more acceptable than the current three beater duallist] and sticks with bending shoulders just like the bending necks some badminton racquets have now.
 
syaoran05 said:
the duallist isnt exactly good, but it isnt exactly bad either. if you could set it up so that it sounds flawless hey congratulations. then again i dont think it'll sound good if say, you tried to do moeller or heel toe on the pedal that has the two beaters. i think the duallist is just a high speed triplet pedal mechanism. kinda like overspeeding gadd's ramaques on the kick.

innovations are really helpful yeah, but some just are annoying in a way that we rely on the machines more than we rely on ourselves. if this continues, i predict a duallist with two beaters connected to a pedal totalling four pedals [which btw, imo, i think is more acceptable than the current three beater duallist] and sticks with bending shoulders just like the bending necks some badminton racquets have now.
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Great ideas! You should work in product development for a drum company.
 
Deathmetalconga said:
Great ideas! You should work in product development for a drum company.
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lol. frankly, about the four-beater duallist yeah i think it might be better than the 3 beater duallist that's currently on.. i think at least with the four-beater you might still be able to apply the techniques you use on an ordinary double pedal. hehehe.

i dont want to work in a drum development company that produces weird stuff that takes the importance of technique away.. like i dunno, a double headed y shaped stick?

my final point is, i dont think people should rely on products like duallist to improve their sound [note: sound, not playing]... if you saw me im a real bad drummer... i do the right basic stuff, like gripping the stick and not pulling up and upstrokes and letting the stick bounce [im working on the moeller].... but you wont see me play rudiments or double bass or just a plain roll. my left side of the body is that weak. but i work around my own problems and at the end of the day i still sound good, at least in my opinion, even if i dont do the stuff regular drummers can do. you wont see me use a duallist or that fictitious bendable shoulder stick i was talking about on my last post :p
 
syaoran05 said:
you wont see me use a duallist or that fictitious bendable shoulder stick i was talking about on my last post :p
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Actually, you likely already use a bendable shoulder stick. People have been using them for decades.

Ever wonder why drumsticks have a taper (besides making them look cool)? On imapact, the tapered part bends upward, storing energy and imparting it downward. This is known as "bounce." Try playing timbale sticks (which have no taper) and you'll see the bounce is greatly reduced. To play timbale sticks with as much fluidity and speed as tapered sticks takes a great deal of technique, because you don't have the taper of the stick doing the work for you. You do have to control the bounce in a tapered stick, however, which takes a whole new set of skills.

The only difference between a "cheat" and the "industry standard" is the number of people who use something and the length of time they have been using it.
 
Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

JW89 said:
personally i hate the dualist, i dont care if you use one, but if your going to use one, dont expect to get as much credit as guys who use regular double pedals hence single pedals, and dont get cocky about how fast u can get with a dualist (lars ulrich), cuz its easy as hell to get speed with dualists. we dont care if u can play just as fast as we can with a dualist, because your not, ur feet arent moving as fast as are feet, ure just getting a faster sound and being lazy at the same time.isnt technology great?! haha jk, next thing you know, there gonna be making sticks that branch off into 2 ends so u can can play faster, lmao... if u wanna get fast, take the time and practice to get fast. dont get a dualist and cheat at it.
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There are times when it would be useful. You can do a roll with your dualist while opening and closing your hi hats. Thats it! a dualist hi hat stand! Lol that would be so cool You get a dualist hi hat stand on your left and a dualist remote hi hat to your right. That would sound so cool.
 
Deathmetalconga said:
Actually, you likely already use a bendable shoulder stick. People have been using them for decades.

Ever wonder why drumsticks have a taper (besides making them look cool)? On imapact, the tapered part bends upward, storing energy and imparting it downward. This is known as "bounce." Try playing timbale sticks (which have no taper) and you'll see the bounce is greatly reduced. To play timbale sticks with as much fluidity and speed as tapered sticks takes a great deal of technique, because you don't have the taper of the stick doing the work for you. You do have to control the bounce in a tapered stick, however, which takes a whole new set of skills.

The only difference between a "cheat" and the "industry standard" is the number of people who use something and the length of time they have been using it.
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thanks for the physics facts dude. learned a lot in there. although i was talking about something more bendy, perhaps a spring core oak stick with the shoulder instead of wood is made of mylar or something, just so the stick would felx more..

but really i like the facts... :p im a physics freak lol
 
Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

osamasgoat5467 said:
There are times when it would be useful. You can do a roll with your dualist while opening and closing your hi hats. Thats it! a dualist hi hat stand! Lol that would be so cool You get a dualist hi hat stand on your left and a dualist remote hi hat to your right. That would sound so cool.
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for that thing i think the sonor pedal [i forgot what it's called] that's a single pedal with 2 beaters [and i think the 2nd beater is controlled on the back part of the pedal using your heel, at least by looking at the pic] would be better that a duallist. i think that sonor pedal is way better than the duallist in any way.
 
Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

syaoran05 said:
for that thing i think the sonor pedal [i forgot what it's called] that's a single pedal with 2 beaters [and i think the 2nd beater is controlled on the back part of the pedal using your heel, at least by looking at the pic] would be better that a duallist. i think that sonor pedal is way better than the duallist in any way.
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Well, I'm not able to say myself, since I've never played a Sonor pedal of any kind before.

But I can tell you after a month of playing the Duallist it has unleashed a dormant skill in my right foot and I am playing mad patterns, much to the delight of myself, my band mates and the audience. The Duallist cuts throught the inefficiency, wastefulness and tedium of the double pedal and allows those with good right foot chops to immediately plunge into fun of double-beater possibilities. And I get to lace the bass drum rhythms with full hi-hat action, something impossible with double pedals.

As for the Duallist "doing the work for you," I have used the pedal for many hours now and it only puts out what you put into it. I even sat looking at it once to see if it would start playing on its own. No dice.
 
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