Are Ludwig Supraphonics really that good a snare

This is true, but partly by default. In the 60's 70's there weren't as many competing snare drums on the market, there were truckloads of LUDWIGS, everyone had one and by default gigged, recorded with them hence their popularity on vinyl of the era.

That being said and the fact the drums design virtually hasn't change makes the drum dated sonically IMO. I was over, tired of the sound in the 70's.

Any up and coming drummer's snare sound is not going to be heard as new/original if they play a 400/402, their sound is old news already IMO.

If you want ('need') to sound like a million other drummers past, than do get a 400/402.

The BUDWISER of snare drums.

I agree. It's actually why I sought out a Supra. Or at least something "vintage-y".

I play mostly jazz and blues; I don't think I play a song recorded after the mid-60's. When I take something other than the maple snare, it's my 400.

It's funny, when I was looking for a metal snare a few years ago, I didn't really want something every other drummer had. I asked a friend of mine to pose the "Which snare?" on one of his recording/engineer forums. By far, most of the responses came back with a Ludwig Supraphonic.

I believe I would have ended up with it anyway. I have always really dug the sound of it even before I knew what model it was...even before I played drums. That goes for both the 400 and 402.
 
My experiences to a "T". I like the drum a lot, but not for my particular bands I'm in. Kind of thin and dry sounding from the throne. I like to play mine in my studio, but not at my gigs. Funny that.

I haven't found a single snare (or kick or tom or cymbal or tambourine) that does everything well. But the Supra does most things well.

Ludwig's been through some interesting changes in the last 35 years or so, but the one constant has been their snare drums, and the Supras are hard to beat.

Bermuda

Bermuda and Larry, have either of you tries the 6.5 supralite? I know its not the same alloy, its steel, but I think its a very close representation at a crazy low price.
 
That being said and the fact the drums design virtually hasn't change makes the drum dated sonically IMO. I was over, tired of the sound in the 70's.

Any up and coming drummer's snare sound is not going to be heard as new/original if they play a 400/402, their sound is old news already IMO.

If you want ('need') to sound like a million other drummers past, than do get a 400/402.

The BUDWISER of snare drums.

Am I wrong to take offense to this post ? Which snare drum one uses does not dictate what they sound like. The drummer is mainly responsible for that. Supra's are great snares, loaded with character, IMO. And even if you don't think so, using one isn't going to automatically make you sound like everyone else. Is a guitar player going to sound dated, and like everyone else, if he plays a Strat ? This is just silly.
 
Last edited:
I don't think that a drum has a dated sound. I do think we have dated perceptions. I can change the sound of a drum by changing heads, tunings, snare wire configurations, etc.I can make a supra sound like a respectable concert snare with the right parts and tuning. If I use the same drum set up as was used for vintage recording, yeah, it will sound vintage. I think it is a matter of setup and part selection.

Here's a story about perception, related to snare drums:

I bought a cheapo Yamaha steel snare, the model you used to get with a Stage Custom kit. I bought it because it included one of those nice Yamaha plastic cases and a nice stand and it was $50 shipped. I didn't really want the drum; I was going to strip the hardware and use the hardware for a project. So, the price seemed right for what I wanted.

When I rec'd the kit I had to give the snare a try, even though my plan was to part it out. To my surprise, I loved the way it sounded. It had a real nice crack to it-very solid, sharp, woody crack. It was the sound I would expect to get from an expensive stave snare. As a result, I bought another similar kit. I think the 2nd one was $62 shipped-same stuff included. This way, I could use one for my intended plan (parting it for a project) and keep the 2nd one as another snare in my arsenal.

The moral of the story relating to this thread is (as mandrew said): when it comes to perception, perception may not be reality. And, price doesn't necessarily equal any 'quality of sound.' A snare drum is what one makes of it. We should keep our minds open, when it comes to drum choices.
 
Am I wrong to take offense to this post ? .

Not at all. Dude's on my "don't bother reading" list ;)

Your post is absolutely correct. I love my Supra, but like my Gretsch too, or my maple drum.....etc. And ultimately its the drummer not the drum.
Honestly, can there be a 'best' or of anything as personal as a musical instrument, or as and subjective as its sound?
 
, but like my Gretsch too, or my maple drum.....etc. And ultimately its the drummer not the drum.
Honestly, can there be a 'best' or of anything as personal as a musical instrument, or as and subjective as its sound?

a friend bought a Gretsch kit back in the late 80s and the snare was freakin amazing. Don't know what it was but all of us were in awe of this snare. chrome snare. also my brother in law has a rogers chrome snare, sound amazing too.
 
I am not offended by anyone liking a different sound than I do. Nothing works for "everyone".
You like what you like, and there's nothing to argue about in that regard.

I'm with Les on the feel of the 402. It's not the sound, I like it, and it's not really dated to me, but I haven't been playing them since the 60's either (to get "sick" of it).
I just didn't get the feel for the 402 and I tried 3 different times. I do like my HAMMERED 402, so go figure.... The 400 did ZREO for me.
I just like a heavier snare.

I dig my Acrolite Classic 6.5 though! It's weird, but it feels more solid to me for some reason than the 402. The sound is a lot more to my liking. It has elements of the 402, but it has a fatter sound overall to me.

The cosmetic splay stuff on Ludwig (or others) I could give 2 craps about really. The price (has been discussed) has gone up, but so has everything else, so whatever.

I LOVE the sound of the Supralite 6.5. It's a heavier shell than a 402 also. The lower price is great, and I don't care that it's a seamed shell. It has a slightly more controlled sound than a seamless to my ear, with nice singing overtones.
ALL the seamed shell snares made by companies that copy Ludwig's shell do. MOST people put dampening on their snare anyway, so what's the difference?

I saw a lot of nice stuff at the Chicago show last May, and TBH, the Supralite was my favorite sounding snare. I have so many dang snares now (that don't get into the rotation) that I haven't bought one (yet).
I may sell something in the near future, so I may justify the purchase of one. One friend said, "if you don't have to sell something, why do it" but, I'm just at the point of not wanting a bunch of stuff that just sits and isn't used. It's not really the $150 bucks or whatever.
 
I got my first 400 back in the late 70s. Very nice drum. Next I got a Supersensitive in 6.5 depth, and that was awesome. Then I went for a 5" Hammered Bronze and loved that for a long time.

I picked up a 6.5" COB with tube lugs and Millenium strainer a few years ago. Incredibly versatile snare drum. Love it.

More recently, I picked up a new 5" a few months ago. It sounded okay, but nowhere near as nice as my COB with tube lugs (or my 6.5" Gretsch USA Custom), so I got rid of it. No more aluminum Ludwigs for me.
 
KarlCrafton;1182243 I LOVE the sound of the Supralite 6.5. It's a heavier shell than a 402 also. The lower price is great said:
slightly[/I] more controlled sound than a seamless to my ear, with nice singing overtones.
ALL the seamed shell snares made by companies that copy Ludwig's shell do. MOST people put dampening on their snare anyway, so what's the difference?

I saw a lot of nice stuff at the Chicago show last May, and TBH, the Supralite was my favorite sounding snare. I have so many dang snares now (that don't get into the rotation) that I haven't bought one (yet).
I may sell something in the near future, so I may justify the purchase of one. One friend said, "if you don't have to sell something, why do it" but, I'm just at the point of not wanting a bunch of stuff that just sits and isn't used. It's not really the $150 bucks or whatever.
Will you get a supralite already!!! I got mine because of a discussion with you and I thank you for the advice on it.
 
I think if you want to sound like everybody else,you can.But with the right tuning,heads,selection of drum sticks(which has a lot to do with your "sound") and touch of a particular drummer,you'll sound completely different using a supra 400/402.

Example:Bonham,Carl Palmer,Ian Paice,Carmine Appice and Cozy Powell........all used a 402...basically at the same time.

Can you really tell me that they all sounded the same?Not even close.

One of the most versitle snare drums ever made,barr none.

Steve B
 
Last edited:
Not at all. Dude's on my "don't bother reading" list ;)

Your post is absolutely correct. I love my Supra, but like my Gretsch too, or my maple drum.....etc. And ultimately its the drummer not the drum.
Honestly, can there be a 'best' or of anything as personal as a musical instrument, or as and subjective as its sound?

Ohhh come on now. This was a mildly provocative post but I certainly never set out to offend anyone, just my own thoughts to the community. Actually if you look at the responses some like others don't, that's fair enough. But please don't discount my opinions. I never mentioned 'best' in the original post.
 
Love my Supra's....both of 'em. Really not fazed what others think of them at all.


Ohhh come on now. This was a mildly provocative post but I certainly never set out to offend anyone, just my own thoughts to the community. Actually if you look at the responses some like others don't, that's fair enough. But please don't discount my opinions. I never mentioned 'best' in the original post.

I do believe he was referring to another poster. Quite possibly the poster that was originally quoted in the post he responded too, I'd imagine.
 
I think if you want to sound like everybody else,you can.But with the right tuning,heads,selection of drum sticks(which has a lot to do with your "sound") and touch of a particular drummer,you'll sound completely different using a supra 400/402.

Example:Bonham,Carl Palmer,Ian Paice,Carmine Appice and Cozy Powell........all used a 402...basically at the same time.

Can you really tell me that they all sounded the same?Not even close.

One of the most versitle snare drums ever made,barr none.

Steve B


If they sounded different its not b/c of the 402's construction/edge profile and to a lesser degree heads/tuning, it would most likely be b/c of recording technique.

To make it easier to understand, If all things were equal, recording, heads, drummer (we'll use Bonham as mythical demonstration example)...

If Bonham were demoing four different 6.5 metal snare drums under the same recording conditions, one of them being a 402, blind sound test, just say "Look, we'll play you 4 examples, tell us which one is the LUDWIG" wouldn't even have to name the other 3, nine out of ten drummers would be able to pick out the LUDWIG example no problem.

The 400/402 are easily the worlds most recognizable metal snare drum sounds. No more versatile than a PEARL SENSITONE, or 50 other steel snares out there.

People shell out the $ for a LUDWIG 400/402 b/c they want that sound, not b/c they want versatility, you can get versatility for a lot less money. They're not putting up the cash for the cheap pot metal lugs and strainer(s) LUDWIG put on those drums. As an example one would put out $ for the materials and workmanship for something like a GMS, or AYOTTE first, LUDWIG 400/402 its sound first, then just reconcile to live with the cheap materials.

The mystique is you really have to own a 400/402 to realize this, once you do and accept the reality its easy to play something else and be happy for less money.
 
If Bonham were demoing four different 6.5 metal snare drums under the same recording conditions, one of them being a 402, blind sound test, just say "Look, we'll play you 4 examples, tell us which one is the LUDWIG" wouldn't even have to name the other 3, nine out of ten drummers would be able to pick out the LUDWIG example no problem.

That is some kind of reverse psychic prediction capability. I too am absolutely 100% certain that 9 of 10 would pick the Ludwig without zero uncertainty. Without a doubt ...
 
I
If Bonham were demoing four different 6.5 metal snare drums under the same recording conditions, one of them being a 402, blind sound test, just say "Look, we'll play you 4 examples, tell us which one is the LUDWIG" wouldn't even have to name the other 3, nine out of ten drummers would be able to pick out the LUDWIG example no problem.

What if the question was "Of these four examples, which do you prefer?"

:)
 
In my opinion, they are known for being so good, because they all seem to be able to achieve a good usable sound with minimal effort, and it just sort of "works." IMHO, it is one the most distinctive and unique sounding snares, and they always seem to sound nice. They aren't everyone's cup of tea, as some want more distinction in their snare sound. I wouldn't mind having one in my snare arsenal eventually, but the sound isn't such a need right now, as I have a nice sized collection of snares that all have their own distinct sound. To me, Supras are also pretty versatile, ad are a great choice for someone who wants a nice all purpose versatile snare.
 
Les has talked about "cheap pot metal", and things breaking in the past (not just with Ludwig to be fair), but to this day, I have yet to have anything break, or a lug come apart. What gives? I take care of my stuff, but I hardly "baby" it either.

The lug walls on an Imp, large Classic, Bowtie, seem pretty dang thick to me.
Maybe they changed the thickness or metal in the mir-70's when I started playing?
The Mach lugs could knock out some concrete.

I compared a DW TB12 mount to an Elite mount, and the Ludwig had thicker walls.

Compared to a SOLID GMS or Ayotte lug, that's apples and oranges.
If the lugs on a Ludwig were solid, then the sound would change--and I don't think anyone would debate that.

Personally, I don't think the parts used on Ludwig snares are "cheap". They aren't as fancy, or thick or whatever like a Trick throw or something, but, I don't care for Trick throws. They work smoothly, but they have no style, and are a giant hunk of metal stuck on a snare to me.
I have a few P-85's in a bin, that I changed over to P-86's (I like the 86's styling, how it works) and all the 85's work fine.
The (9) 86's I have work like a charm.

They aren't THICK parts, so if the drum was abused, they might need replacing, but no one but me is handling the drum anyway.
Once in a while, a stage crew is moving my gear, but it's on a stand at that point.
If someone dropped the drum then, no brands strainer is gonna survive.

Comparing type of sound, a friend of mine has a Pearl Steve Ferrone sig snare. It's basically a BB copy. It sounds great, but there are differences. The sound of it is more controlled than my BB's--and I have tuned his snare a few times for his bigger shows, and he wanted it to sound like mine. The seam in the shell could contribute to that, and the lug type, and the different edge, and the snare bed, and...

I think that Pearl snare is probably as nice as anyone could want, and told him a few times "if you ever want to sell..'

But, I wouldn't give up my BB's either. I think they are a bit more open, and have a sound that just isn't like other drums. The Ludwig is more sensitive as well.

The amount of lip extending off the bend from the edge inside on a Ludwig shell is more than the other shells I have looked at--and a LOT more than my WorldMax Brass snare--that I do like a lot.

I use a wide open snare, and I like and use the ring I get (on purpose) of the snare. If it's too much coming off the drum for FOH (with their mic choice, the venue, etc...) I just move the mic off the head a bit more. Problem solved, and I get the sound I want.

A lot of people put Moongel, a ring, or whatever to damp down the ring, so IMO, at that point, what's the difference in brands of snares people would use?

You're just going to get a smack, and short sound out of any brand drum anyway. If someone is doing that, then use anything that they think is a good drum, and isn't going to have parts failing on them.
 
Bermuda and Larry, have either of you tries the 6.5 supralite? I know its not the same alloy, its steel, but I think its a very close representation at a crazy low price.

I don't have one (yet) but it's a sufficiently different drum than a comparable new Supra (which is why I want one!) And the price is pretty amazing for a new drum that sounds so good, I think Ludwig is doing very well with them right now.

Bermuda
 
Back
Top