Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

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I am exercising RRR RRR between a 140 -150 bpm , sixteens. With the push pull technique.
Seems like over 140 i am stepping into a gray zone where there is a switch from push pull technique into
a buzz roll technique. Or a hybrid like push-buzz thing. Is that right ?

I saw a drummer playing it really fast and it looked more like a press roll.

With the push pull over 140 bpm i feel the stick is playing too much with too many rings, I cant get that chilled tight jazzy sound.
While my buzz roll roll has that tight chilled sound but i cant get it to swing.

Question is: is there a hybrid thing (like push buzz) or its just a matter of polishing my push pull technique?


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Question is: is there a hybrid thing (like push buzz) or its just a matter of polishing my push pull technique?
Push-pull is a great place to start. You can think of it as "push" or "bounce" for the first two notes, and then a "pull" or "snap" with the fingers for the last note. So it's really a combination of techniques, not just one technique.

140 (the jazz guys usually call this 280) is about where the three notes should straighten out. So just try to play three evenly spaced notes from there on up. By all means, give it a little swing if you're able, once you get a handle on up-tempo technique.
 
Here is a post I wrote about this topic a while back... it's based on my lessons with John Riely, who, IMO, is one of the premier educators on the topic.

"How to Blaze the Ride Cymbal"


This is a really good article. I like how you describe the limitations you were facing, how John helped you break down the problem and the concept(s) behind the technique.
 
I love the way he teaches, never heard of him before but his advice on counting staying calm and relaxed even if you are cooking makes so much sense and should be common sense. but i just realized i work myself up and try to count too fast and get frantic...

He’s the guy with the Yellowjackets. I would say there’s at least one number per Yellowjackets albums where the tempo is mind-bendingly fast - and he can go faster. Helluva funny guy too.
 
I don¨t use the push-pull technique (ever), however at 280-300 should be pretty easy to do it JUST with the fingers.

Anyway, the problem is not there (meaning: "at that tempo"), is when it´s around 400 bpm (example): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmIxswvPByA
 
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a low moeller may help no?
 
I do the same thing building speed. I play it where I am able to , and slowly build... My body will find a way to do it. That way I am not forcing a technique.

For fast jazz I just play medium swing until I am really pushing, then push a bit more. Eventually my arm is burning and it loses a bit of swing.

It may help to think of it as "push,tap,pull" or wrist, fingers pull

You are still making the hits, it's not a buzz or press roll. You gotta keep it controlled.
 
As Alex mentioned, that's not a tempo range that generally requires a special technique. If you're using any kind of buzz roll technique-- whatever that means to you-- you're definitely doing it wrong. Whatever technique you're using at 120 or 130, you should be able to use up into the 150s-- with practice.

I don't know how many people here actually play this music— talk always centers around cymbal technique and nothing else, ever, so I guess not many— but I try to avoid hacking out RRR RRR the whole tune when playing this style and tempo. It's way too much work, I don't dig it musically, and I don't know how many bop guys are still around that both play those tempos and demand a drummer go RRR RRR all night.
 
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Cool thanks to all of you. So i am at 140 with push pull I will build it up to
150 without switching technique then.
And to answer to Mr. andeteeT not Moeller as you will get to many rings. The idea is to get chilled sound, less rings as possible at 150
 
Ah I see, so you mean you want the three notes as un-accented taps? Yea MOELLER will want to give you an accent on one of the strokes
 
Right you area. Is it worth working purely on finger control in. French position? It’s good for strings of unnaccented notes
 
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