Springsteen sues local bar owner for copyright infringement

Well I doubt they are non-profit, sounds like they need to have some good high priced lawyers on retainer to enforce this. Which there is no way they can fully enforce it. I live in NH and I don't remember seeing anything ascap stickers anywhere, they probably only worry about it in big city major bars, which if you want to get into the big time I imagine you have to play these clubs anyway so why not start learning to pay your dues : )

You may not see the stickers, but it's NOT just a big city thing.

But ASCAP and BMI mostly work behind the scenes, which is why most people have little clue as to what they do. But if it wasn't for them, most song writers of the last 80 or so years would be flat broke.
 
If i go out with my original band this year, play 15 shows, with a set list of tunes composed 100% by me I can look forward to getting a check of around $200 at the end of the year. (this is a rough estimate).

Interesting. My band plays about 90% originals with a few covers sprinkled in. Maybe we should get with ASCAP and get a check. Does anyone else here do this?

And really, how can I change my thread title? I feel bad now that it is wrong.
 
Interesting. My band plays about 90% originals with a few covers sprinkled in. Maybe we should get with ASCAP and get a check. Does anyone else here do this?

And really, how can I change my thread title? I feel bad now that it is wrong.

HA HA!! They're not handing out checks to just ANYONE, you'd get paid of others are playing/using YOUR songs, not if YOU play them, you already OWN them!!!

L0L!!!
.
 
Interesting. My band plays about 90% originals with a few covers sprinkled in. Maybe we should get with ASCAP and get a check. Does anyone else here do this?

And really, how can I change my thread title? I feel bad now that it is wrong.

http://www.ascap.com/about/payment/paymentintro.html

I'd check out that for an intro into how it works, there's a link at the bottom on how to 'register your works'. Just keep following through and it explains everything.

According to their website, the following pay licensing fees to them:

* The three major television networks: ABC, CBS and NBC

* Public television - the Public Broadcasting System (PBS) and its affiliated stations

* The majority of the 11,000 cable systems and virtually all of the cable program services

* About 11,500 local commercial radio stations

* About 2,000 non-commercial radio broadcasters, including college radio stations and National Public Radio (NPR) stations

* Hundreds of background music services (such as MUZAK, airlines)

* About 2,300 colleges and universities

* About 5,700 concert presenters

* Over 1,000 symphony orchestras

* Over 2,000 web sites

* Tens of thousands of "general" licensees: bars, restaurants, hotels, ice and roller skating rinks, circuses, theme parks, veterans and fraternal organizations and more.

Vipercussionist said:
HA HA!! They're not handing out checks to just ANYONE, you'd get paid of others are playing/using YOUR songs, not if YOU play them, you already OWN them!!!

L0L!!!

Unfortunately, you're incorrect. You do get paid to perform your own songs. Venues are paying for the rights to have your songs performed, if it happens to be you performing them, you get paid twice: once for whatever you make on the door/whatever the venue gives you, and once by ASCAP.

It's basically a brilliant system to protect songwriters.

Pavlos: the thing to sort out before doing this is who in the band actually wrote the tunes. If you're willing to split the songwriting credit 4 ways then it'll benefit the whole band, otherwise it'll really only benefit the person who actually wrote the songs. I'd seriously sort it out before you start trying to claim money, as if you wait till after you're going to have massive problems.
 
I don't think you really understand the situation. The way it works in Australia is APRA (Australian equivalent of ASCAP) sells licenses to live music venues to allow them to have live performances on their premises. These live venues or the performers who perform at them will submit a record of when they played and what tunes they played.

APRA then compiles a list of who performed when and where and what tunes they performed, they then divided the licensing fees the venue payed at the beginning out to the songwriters, based on how many tunes where performed, and where and when it occurred.

It's basically all fed into a computer.

It benefits the SONGWRITERS, not the venues, not APRA (ASCAP, which are generally non-profit organizations), and not necessarily the performers.

If i go out with my original band this year, play 15 shows, with a set list of tunes composed 100% by me I can look forward to getting a check of around $200 at the end of the year. (this is a rough estimate).

It's a shame that ASCAP didn't get Springsteen's permission for this particular venture, but bars should be paying licensing fees. In the long run, the fee really isn't that much, as far as I'm aware it's a couple hundred dollars.

Hey mate........is this a relatively new thing in Oz? I played in various cover bands up until several years ago and never once submitted a set list to either APRA or the venue for this purpose. Never gave it a seconds thought to be honest. Was it always in place but has been largely ignored, or has it come about in the time that I've not been playing live?
 
I always wondered how musicians collected their royalties from say radio broadcasts for starters. Does the station pay each label a penny or whatever when they play a song? What a huge job that would be to coordinate, all those records, all those artists... How is any of this proven, who played what how many times. Is that somones job? making sure every side that is played is paid for all the time? Multiply that by all the radio stations across the country and wow what a complicated system!
 
I always wondered how musicians collected their royalties from say radio broadcasts for starters. Does the station pay each label a penny or whatever when they play a song? What a huge job that would be to coordinate, all those records, all those artists... How is any of this proven, who played what how many times. Is that somones job? making sure every side that is played is paid for all the time? Multiply that by all the radio stations across the country and wow what a complicated system!

Yep, radio stations keep meticulous records on what was played. Each programme has to fill out a 'run sheet' of the music they'll be playing. These are submitted to the relevant bodies, who are then responsible for the royalty distribution. From the majors, right down to local community stations.
 
I remember way back when in the early eighties. I was helping a friend of mine run a small Mexican restaurant. One eve, a guy walked in and he said that we had to stop playing the radio in the dinning room unless we paid royalties to ASCAP.
We thought that he was a freak or something. We didn't believe him. We took him out back and we beat the crap out of him like we used to do to all of the freaks that came into the joint. An hour later a cop walked in and we were arrested for assault. Apparently we had broken one of this guys ribs and his nose. Oh Well! Do-Do Happens!
We had to call in some favors from some Low Friends In High Places to get out of that one!
We didn't do any time but we had to pay that jerks hospital bill.
That was my first introduction to ASCAP.
 
Hey mate........is this a relatively new thing in Oz? I played in various cover bands up until several years ago and never once submitted a set list to either APRA or the venue for this purpose. Never gave it a seconds thought to be honest. Was it always in place but has been largely ignored, or has it come about in the time that I've not been playing live?

Heya Pocket,

APRA was established in 1926. I'm the QLD Representative for the Songwriters, but if you'd like to discuss it further, I suggest you speak to Con or Sibylla in the Victorian office (the office is in Richmond). If you're an original writer, and you have your work Performed Live or Broadcast on TV/Internet/Radio then you are eligible for membership (which is free and available online).

Here in Australia, any Venue/Business that uses music that is audible to the public are required to pay an annual licence to APRA, APRA then distributes the money (royalty) back to the Songwriters. Major Radio and TV are to submit a full log of every work (song) that they broadcast, to allow the royalty to be paid back to the writer. Also, as mentioned, the songwriters submit a Live Performance Return each year to tell APRA 1) What venues they performed at over the Financial year 2) What songs they performed and 3) How many times each song was performed.

APRA has reciprocal agreements with collection societies around the world, so if you receive airplay in the states (for example) then BMI or ASCAP will pay APRA then APRA will pay you. Alternatively, if an American artist receives airplay in Australia, APRA will bay ASCAP or BMI and then they will pay the writer.

Ok, i'm done!

Cheers
 
I remember way back when in the early eighties. I was helping a friend of mine run a small Mexican restaurant. One eve, a guy walked in and he said that we had to stop playing the radio in the dinning room unless we paid royalties to ASCAP.
We thought that he was a freak or something. We didn't believe him. We took him out back and we beat the crap out of him like we used to do to all of the freaks that came into the joint. An hour later a cop walked in and we were arrested for assault. Apparently we had broken one of this guys ribs and his nose. Oh Well! Do-Do Happens!
We had to call in some favors from some Low Friends In High Places to get out of that one!
We didn't do any time but we had to pay that jerks hospital bill.
That was my first introduction to ASCAP.


LOL, where does it stop? I mean really how many rules and regulations can we have? The Music Police???? really? just what the world needs.. I swear every time I hear these we are the world (save Haiti) BS gatherings I think of crap like this.

These big time ego maniac musicians are in it just for the almighty $, and if you think differently than you are sorely mistaken. I for one am happy you guys did what you did. Pay some greedy talentless hack money for playing the radio (a free public service BTW) in your restaurant. Pffft, I don;t think so. No wonder why music interest is fading. Not much difference between a politician and a professional musician nowadays.(Good job lars)

Of course I don't mean every single pro musician so save the you can't lump every one into the same jar BS argument for someone who has not heard it before.
 
Hey mate........is this a relatively new thing in Oz? I played in various cover bands up until several years ago and never once submitted a set list to either APRA or the venue for this purpose. Never gave it a seconds thought to be honest. Was it always in place but has been largely ignored, or has it come about in the time that I've not been playing live?

Depending on the situation the venue nearly always pays APRA and the band doesn't worry about it. In some situations (say the band was playing at a private wedding, maybe at a chapel/someone's house where there usually isn't live music) it gets very difficult, in which case I believe it's still the venue/organizers responsibility to buy a one-off license.

Definitely worth calling up your local APRA office to talk to someone about it, otherwise search out a music lawyer or similar and they can put you in the right direction.

nhoza said:
LOL, where does it stop? I mean really how many rules and regulations can we have? The Music Police???? really? just what the world needs.. I swear every time I hear these we are the world (save Haiti) BS gatherings I think of crap like this.

These big time ego maniac musicians are in it just for the almighty $, and if you think differently than you are sorely mistaken. I for one am happy you guys did what you did. Pay some greedy talentless hack money for playing the radio (a free public service BTW) in your restaurant. Pffft, I don;t think so. No wonder why music interest is fading. Not much difference between a politician and a professional musician nowadays.(Good job lars)

Of course I don't mean every single pro musician so save the you can't lump every one into the same jar BS argument for someone who has not heard it before.

Not really sure that this requires a response but I'd consider thinking about your fellow musicians before making blanket statements like this. APRA/ASCAP are here to benefit MUSICIAN'S, whether you're Springsteen, Brad Mehldau, the Arctic Monkeys or the guy who plays at your local pub on a Friday night. Without organizations like this musicians across the world would be in a much worse place.

Haiti is a completely different kettle of fish and I really don't think it requires discussion.
 
LOL, where does it stop? I mean really how many rules and regulations can we have? The Music Police???? really? just what the world needs.. I swear every time I hear these we are the world (save Haiti) BS gatherings I think of crap like this.

These big time ego maniac musicians are in it just for the almighty $, and if you think differently than you are sorely mistaken. I for one am happy you guys did what you did. Pay some greedy talentless hack money for playing the radio (a free public service BTW) in your restaurant. Pffft, I don;t think so. No wonder why music interest is fading. Not much difference between a politician and a professional musician nowadays.(Good job lars)

Of course I don't mean every single pro musician so save the you can't lump every one into the same jar BS argument for someone who has not heard it before.

Actually, music is fading because of people who have the attitude that a musician's work should always be free.

Never mind how much a drum set costs, never mind how much lessons, rehearsal time, studio time and work it takes to create music, people think it should just be free and blame anyone who thinks otherwise for being greedy.

But try to going to the grocery store and getting groceries, and not paying for them, or not paying your rent/mortgage because you're a musician. Doesn't work.

And radio isn't a free service, that's why they sell advertising.

Really, learn how the music business works. Read some books, take a class. Learn about how songwriters actually get paid.
 
Pay some greedy talentless hack money for playing the radio (a free public service BTW) in your restaurant.

Yeah, I think you've totally missed the point there. Organisations like ASCAP exist to ASSIST the songwriter by paying them broadcast royalties that they are entitled to. Many musician rely on their royalty payments when they are distributed to them, and are very grateful that organisations like ASCAP exist. Otherwise they'd be ringing up each radio station asking for their individual royalty payment... if they heard it on air.
 
Oops and Tropellor......thanks for the replies on the Oz tangent to this thread. It's an issue that was always outta sight, outta mind for me. We never offered, no one ever asked - with respect to playing covers. Interesting thread!
 
I could be wrong but I thought that APRA pays when you play original material rather than covers. My old originals band received some fairly paltry cheques from time to time.

Our guitarist would periodically submit the details of our gigs etc and APRA would tally up the pennies and throw them over.
 
I could be wrong but I thought that APRA pays when you play original material rather than covers. My old originals band received some fairly paltry cheques from time to time.

Our guitarist would periodically submit the details of our gigs etc and APRA would tally up the pennies and throw them over.

Heya Polly,

That's right, APRA represents original Songwriters. However, it's common that people perform a combination of originals and covers, and by courtesy they can tell APRA the covers they performed, and that royalty gets paid to the songwriter of that cover. You can only be a member of APRA if you are an original songwriter/co-writer.

Cheers
 
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