Zildjian pre-matched set?

Zildjian has 2 A custom packs - matched and pre-matched. What do they mean by pre-matched? They don't provide any sound files for the pre-matched.

interesting, how do they know what sounds we are looking for?

what I like in a set of cymbals may not be what you like ;-)

Sounds like marketing to me.

It really is a marketing ploy. All it means is that someone at the company who has a working set of ears put cymbals that sound at least passingly good together, in a box.

I usually would only buy a box set if I were familiar with all the cymbals in the set and was happy with all of them. Otherwise, it's much more exciting, fun, and rewarding to buy them separately, or find them in other ways.

I hear ya. With the pre-matched set they give you a free 18" crash. So does that mean your getting a so so cymbal set, uncontrolled, but we'll give you a free one since we didn;t spend labor cost to listen to them? The matched set, same set but there's no freebie. I guess they figure more time spent for someone listening to each cymbal, so that's labor, so no freebie.

ronyd said:

I hear ya. With the pre-matched set they give you a free 18" crash. So does that mean your getting a so so cymbal set, uncontrolled, but we'll give you a free one since we didn;t spend labor cost to listen to them? The matched set, same set but there's no freebie. I guess they figure more time spent for someone listening to each cymbal, so that's labor, so no freebie.

Click to expand...

Basically yes. The problem is they don't tell you how they are matched. They might not be sonically matched, just matched by weight.

BertTheDrummer said:

Basically yes. The problem is they don't tell you how they are matched. They might not be sonically matched, just matched by weight.

Click to expand...

I believe that they are so, so sonically matched. They couldn't match them by weight because of the the different sizes and weights of those sizes. The lathing also has a direct influence on the cymbal's sound. I wouldn't trust other people's ears to match my cymbals, even if they are employed by the company.

Dennis

Sounds like marketing spin on steroids to me, too.

It could be that the finishes have all been matched on the matched set (duh!), and on the pre-matched set, well, they just haven't been "sonically matched" to each other yet but rest assured they will be as soon as you put them on your kit!

Clever, no? That's why there's a special corner in hell reserved for marketers that come up with this stuff.

Seriously, by what measure might they be claiming a set of cymbals has been matched? Is that the judgment of the guy in the cymbal testing room who listens to cymbals all day long? Awesome, hope you hear the same "matchedness" that his fatigued ears identified. It might be worth asking yourself what you might do in his situation testing cymbals 40 hours a week for years on end knowing that you can't be "wrong" since it's all subjective anyway.

Don't get me wrong, Zildjian are my preferred cymbals, but they're as involved with dubious marketing practices as anyone (I wish they'd drop the "The Only Serious Choice" slogan. It's kind of insulting - theirs is but one serious choice among many). Actually, I'd have to say that Sabian and DW do about the best job of marketing I can think of and I don't think they're going to hell as they seem to do an honest job of it.

audiotech said:

They couldn't match them by weight because of the the different sizes and weights of those sizes.

Click to expand...

Actually they could. They could have a formula that says X (+ or - a variance of course) weight Hat X goes with X weight Ride with X weight Crashes, and then another that says Y weight Hat goes with Y weight Ride with Y weight Crashes, etc etc. Not saying that's what they do or that it would be a good way to sort. I'm just saying that saying they are "matched" doesn't mean much.

BertTheDrummer said:

Actually they could. They could have a formula that says X (+ or - a variance of course) weight Hat X goes with X weight Ride with X weight Crashes, and then another that says Y weight Hat goes with Y weight Ride with Y weight Crashes, etc etc. Not saying that's what they do or that it would be a good way to sort. I'm just saying that saying they are "matched" doesn't mean much.

Click to expand...

Right, it doesn't mean anything. Take a pair of New Beats, a Medium Ride, a couple Medium Thin Crashes, put them together, and BAM: matched set. Run through the corresponding exercise with A Customs, Armands, or Ks ... same thing.

I would be interested to hear a set that Zildjian rejected as an unmatched set. I'd wager they don't exist.

I've had dealers freak out if I was looking at more than one pair of Zildjian New Beat Hi-Hats at once. I even had one store manager who threatened to charge me an extra $100 if I mixed hi-hat cymbals. My reply was, "OK smart-ass, let me put all of these in the floor, mix them up like a pea shell game, and then you tell me which ones belong together." The look on his face was classic! He realized he would not be able to tell which tops and bottoms were a matched set. To add further insult to injury, I pointed out that a pair of demo hats with a drum kit had a Mastersound top and New Beat bottom. I can only guess that one of his brilliant 19 year-old salesmen was responsible - especially since the other mismatched top and bottom hats were in their storage room that only employees could access !!!!

I have no idea how cymbals are matched.

But with today's technology, it would be simple, and fairly inexpensive, to mic them up, give them a hit, and send the audio into a computer for an FFT analysis. This shows the frequencies present, and their attack, decay, and sustain durations.

You can get programs like this really inexpensively, and I would be very surprised if any manufacturer didn't use them, in addition to matching them by weight.

Something like this: http://www.iowegian.com/scopedsp

I have a program that shows the data in 3 dimensions (3D) - frequencies are along the front, durations run from front to back (at an angle), and amplitude (loudness) runs from bottom to top.

I love Zildjian to death but it's just marketing silliness. It's like DW writing the pitch of the shell inside or putting up videos about their White House quality assurance or whatever. You pick the cymbals that sound good to you.

wildbill said:

But with today's technology, it would be simple, and fairly inexpensive, to mic them up, give them a hit, and send the audio into a computer for an FFT analysis. This shows the frequencies present, and their attack, decay, and sustain durations.

Click to expand...

Sure, you could, but what would you do with that info? Is the approach to reinforce the frequencies most heavily represented, or try to find complimentary frequencies to put together? Might be a fun experiment for your DSP class, but I'm not sure what the real-world practical value in it would be since there's so much subjectivity involved.

MikeM said:

Sure, you could, but what would you do with that info? ...

Click to expand...

Match cymbals according to the frequencies they emit, so that they sound the same (or at least similar).

For different types of cymbals, use complimentary frequencies.

Maybe there should be a site for cymbals comparative to eHarmony for adults. This way, the cymbals are sure to be correctly paired together and receive the best match possible.

KirbyM said:

Maybe there should be a site for cymbals comparative to eHarmony for adults. This way, the cymbals are sure to be correctly paired together and receive the best match possible.

Click to expand...

...that's good................so many cymbals...so little time.

I bought an A. Zildjian box set with new beat hi-hats, a sweet ride, a 16" fast crash, and an 18" fast crash without hearing any of them first (but with a return policy.)

Turns out the cymbals sound fantastic together and I couldn't be happier that I only spent around $650 for these cymbals that would cost quite a bit more if bought separately.