Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Andy

Honorary Member
Ok, this bugs me. Maybe I have a different perspective to many on this. Is it just me, or are most kits on display in exhibitions, & shops too, tuned like crap? Out of all the shops I've visited in the last year, only one shop had ONE KIT that was anything like tuned reasonably well. Much much worse than that, most kits I've seen on exhibition stands/booths are badly tuned too. Now the exhibition stand deal I really don't get. These are supposedly staffed by people who know what they're doing, & I'm talking "professionals" employed by the big companies here too. Not only is poor tuning very bad for their business, but I also think it's a bit insulting to drummers too. Would you find a badly tuned guitar on a trade stand? I think not.

I take a recent small scale exhibition we attended as an example. The night before the show opened, I spent about two hours tuning up all the drums. The following morning, I was in early to tweak them up again. There were several pro techs at the show, and all (unsolicited) pointed out how poor many of the other kits sounded. Not the drums themselves, the tuning, & I'm talking kits on display with unevenly crinkled heads here!!!!. I really don't get it. Why would you not put the effort in? Do you think your customers are that stupid? Maybe I'm wasting my time & drummers buy with their eyes after all? (well, actually, they mostly do, but you have to have some faith- eh!)

Here's our little Classic kit (20" x 12" bass drum) being played on our stand at the end of the day. Obviously, by then, it's not exactly as sweet as it was at the start of the exhibition. Please tell me I'm not deluding myself here, & it actually makes a difference.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ohdyj2HDZs&feature=youtu.be&hd=1


Recorded on a Zoom Q3.
 
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Basically Andy it comes down to this. People are lazy. They carry the drums into the show, they unbox them, they set them up and they consider their work done.
You on the other hand go the extra mile.
It is the same in the music stores. Drums are placed on the floor as they come from the box.
Drum Workshop ships their drums tuned because just like you they go the extra mile.
They want their products displayed in a standard that reflects their professional image.
 
Basically Andy it comes down to this. People are lazy. They carry the drums into the show, they unbox them, they set them up and they consider their work done.
You on the other hand go the extra mile.
It is the same in the music stores. Drums are placed on the floor as they come from the box.
Drum Workshop ships their drums tuned because just like you they go the extra mile.
They want their products displayed in a standard that reflects their professional image.
I think you're right, laziness is the key here Bob, but I just don't get it. Do they not want to sell drums? It's the same as having dirty vehicles on a car lot, but worse, because at least the car still drives.

I like the fact that DW bother to tune their drums, but TBH, that only goes some way towards getting it right. This is one area were I agree with DW. If you don't tune your drums at some stage prior to despatch, how do you fully check them for faults? By the time you've shipped those drums half way round the world, they're not going to be in the best state of tune. It's up to those displaying the kits to get their act together. I've seen examples of manufacturers displaying kits that are a tuning disgrace. I'm often left thinking, if you can't tune your drums, where is your design credibility? How can you optimise an instrument's design if you don't know how to tune the damn thing?

I'm not getting at people's tuning skills here. I realise it's a black art to some extent, but the simple fact is this, a manufacturer's exhibit at a show should be displaying the very best of their wares. Others rely on manufacturers to know what they're doing. If you're going to step out there as someone who advises others, you have a duty to carry out your profession with some depth & credibility, & being able to tune your product to a good standard, is surely first base stuff. Stores getting this wrong, or being lazy, is one thing, but manufacturers being lazy is a disgrace to themselves and insulting to their customers.
 
The night before the show opened, I spent about two hours tuning up all the drums.

That's the difference right there. Some staff of big companies are right into it but some not so much. Meanwhile, partners in small business have to be gung ho to survive.

I get what you mean with the G1 heads. Nice.
 
I totally get where you are coming from Andy, and like was said above it's laziness.

Yeah it might be a pain to move and setup and tear down kits for these shows but that's the profession those people chose and knew what they would be doing. Another thing is the fact that most, unfortunately, are there for a paycheck they have no stake in the game if you will. They get paid whether something sells or not. Unlike a smaller company like yours where you take pride in your products and you have a stake in the game as you are the owner. Big difference.

I don't think most of the big time company reps realize how many people wish they had their job and it's sad.

When I was shopping for a kit a few years ago the first thing I did was ask for a drum key when I walked into the store because as you have noted the kits aren't tuned worth a crap which is frustrating and sad.

Comes down to pride in what you do, which you have. Too bad many people lack that trait these days!
 
I always had that problem. I go to the store and would like to try different things/change brand and I end up bring disappointed. Tuned like crap and got that 80's sound with .1 sec decay. Same goes with rehearsal studios.
I try to tune top head and something decent but next thing you know , 20 minutes went by .
Same thing happened to a guitar center drum off. Was the second guy. Between the 1st guy and I , we got the tons yo sound pretty decent. Bass drum was so lose that there was no rebound (it was harder to tune "down there")
I feel your pain. And that is one of the reasons I stick with yamaha. I know the got quality stuff.
 
I totally agree. These events should be a way for companies to show how good their drums sound. If they can't even tune the drums it just makes them/the company look bad.
nice sounding kit btw, ive only seen guru snare drums, are you guys making kits now?
 
I am often amazed at how many people say they "tried a kit in a muxic store and loved it". I have never seen anything but the worst heads and a total lack of tuning on kits in stores..

On the other hand. I think there is a trend here to have drums tuned up to higher, more resonant ranges where there are lots of drummers out there that love them dead and flat. Dare I say, the majority of drummers when you consider all the control ring/gaffer/duct tape kids you see out there on you tube? I think a lot of people just dont know. How long would most of us have gone with crappy tuning abilities without this place?

Personally, I think that Guru kit was tuned too high and would sound better with some wrinkles in the tom batters. I love that sound :).
 
Having seen Andy tune drums very quickly, I have to say it's impressive just how skilled you are mate!

The last time I saw you was probably in about January, at the Amedia exhibition. Sitting there on the floor of the studio with a pair of keys on the high tom of the little Guru kit, swearing.

I'm absolutely with you though. I don't understand why companies would show off kits that aren't tuned. Or indeed music shops. It hurts their bottom line and it's not like it costs any more to do - provided the stock heads at least function - which they usually do.
 
Face it mate, most people have low standards and a "who gives a crap" work ethic. It confounds me too. Why do all that work and stop before it's done? They either don't know any better or are lazy. I don't know which is worse.

That's better for you though. Look on it as a blessing.

That said, it gets under my skin too. I just have no patience for people with a lazy work ethic. I am totally with you in your feelings here. The best you can do is to raise the bar. F the rest, they don't deserve anything if they don't even realize there's more work to do. Things like this separate the chaff from the wheat.
 
I am often amazed at how many people say they "tried a kit in a muxic store and loved it". I have never seen anything but the worst heads and a total lack of tuning on kits in stores..

Funnily enough, my exceptions to this rule were all at Guitar Center. There was a great guy working there who actually replaced all the heads on the high-end kits, so I got to play a Renown, a Performance, and a Performer B/B with great tuning and real heads. I've never really had that to be the case anywhere else (especially other guitar centers).
 
I know I feel like going to Guitar Center corporate and have them hire me to keep their kits within tune in a 50 mile radius from me. I could justify my expense to them by convincing them that they would sell twice the amount of kits. Which I believe they would.

People go into a GC and say, I tried a (insert brand name here) set of drums and didn't like them, but I liked the (insert another brand name here) kit much better. If I were in charge at corporate, I would insist that all drum kits out on the floor were tuned to a certain standard, of which I would dictate precisely, in a form of a written protocol, how to achieve that.
 
I get what you mean with the G1 heads. Nice.
Thanks Grea :) I like the kit at that tuning, kind of nearly jazz mode ;) Some G1's, & it's happy, but it can rock low with clears on too.

I don't think most of the big time company reps realize how many people wish they had their job and it's sad.
The business certainly has a habit of jading you, I get that, but like anything else, the difference between those who choose to shine & those who don't, is passion.

I feel your pain. And that is one of the reasons I stick with yamaha. I know the got quality stuff.
& isn't it a shame that your experiences force you to rely on one manufacturer. Don'y get me wrong, Yamaha make great stuff, but it would be nice if you could make that decision based on positive experiences.

nice sounding kit btw, ive only seen guru snare drums, are you guys making kits now?
Thanks, & yes, we've been making kits for about 5 years now, & the very advanced designs for a little over two years.

I think there is a trend here to have drums tuned up to higher, more resonant ranges where there are lots of drummers out there that love them dead and flat.

Personally, I think that Guru kit was tuned too high and would sound better with some wrinkles in the tom batters. I love that sound :).
In this instance, it's on the stand as a compact classic kit, so deliberately tuned higher medium. That gets it into the small quality vintage vibe. This thread isn't anything to do with tuning choices, it's bothering to tune at all. I don't mind low & wrinkled, but tuned low & wrinkled as opposed to "I haven't even bothered to get my tuning key out!. :)

Having seen Andy tune drums very quickly --------

Sitting there on the floor of the studio with a pair of keys on the high tom of the little Guru kit, swearing.
I sit on the floor & swear a lot at drums Duncan ;) ;) ;) if they don't behave instantly, they get a good telling off!!!! If I remember correctly, that was a very small & dead room. I hate those with passion, & so do our drums (well, all drums, actually).

Face it mate, most people have low standards
I can only conclude that many do Larry, but I also must be mindful that I'm not getting too anal too. I set high standards of myself, & get quite pissed (on behalf of the industry) when others take a very lazy path. I'm now laughing at myself, as clearly, I don't apply the same standards to my playing.

Funnily enough, my exceptions to this rule were all at Guitar Center. There was a great guy working there who actually replaced all the heads on the high-end kits, so I got to play a Renown, a Performance, and a Performer B/B with great tuning and real heads. I've never really had that to be the case anywhere else (especially other guitar centers).
It's great to hear of good practice. Clearly, that guy had pride in his work, despite his lack of control over the environment. Good on him!!!



BTW, as an aside, does anyone like the tuning on this video?
 
I am often amazed at how many people say they "tried a kit in a muxic store and loved it". I have never seen anything but the worst heads and a total lack of tuning on kits in stores..

This is why I Never leave my home without a drum key. The employees at the shops I visit know me and know what I do and have no problems with me touching up some of their kit that I'm interested in. This does include Guitar Center.

Dennis
 
I would say that a good standard protocol for store display tuning would be medium tuning tension.
That way the drum would be producing a full round tone.
They could simply use a tune bot or a drum dial to set the drums close enough so that a good demonstration could be had by a shopper.

I was selling a kit a few years ago. I tuned the drums medium tension with both heads on the toms matching in pitch to give a full sound. I figured that when someone came to see the kit they would get a good idea of how the kit sounded with it tuned in that manor.
A buyer came and he sat behind the drums. I explained to him that the drums were tuned in the middle of their range so he could go up or down with the tuning as he liked. He hit the toms for a while and he took a key from his pocket. He then detuned one lug of the batter head on each of the toms until they sounded like crap.
I asked him why he did that. He said that he likes to tune his drums that way because he likes that sound. He bought the kit so all was good but I never understood his logic.
 
BTW, as an aside, does anyone like the tuning on this video?

I thought they sounded nice. I would call that a medium tuning. I thought the kick needed a little more tweaking though, I'm guessing a tighter kick reso. Was there a felt beater that day?

I'm partial to the clear head sound and a hard beater. I'm all about the attack. Coated heads and felt beaters soften the attack for me.
 
I was just kidding about the tuning of your kit and liking wrinkled heads. Again proving that I should not attempt sarcasm here. They sound incredible, as always. Going to stop talking now haha.
 
I thought they sounded nice. I would call that a medium tuning. I thought the kick needed a little more tweaking though, I'm guessing a tighter kick reso. Was there a felt beater that day?

I'm partial to the clear head sound and a hard beater. I'm all about the attack. Coated heads and felt beaters soften the attack for me.
Yes Larry, felt beater, coated heads all round. When I select heads & tune kits for an exhibition stand, I have to think in terms of showing variety, & also a bias towards each kit's strengths. In this case, the 6 piece custom kit had G2 over G1 clear, & was tuned "studio style", the 5 piece padauk performance kit had progressively thicker single ply clear heads, & was tuned big & open. The little Classic kit (video) had coated heads, & was tuned in the classic style - full, fairly short, medium, with plenty of warm tone. Also tuned in recognition of it's small sizes. A hand held cam doesn't exactly capture everything that's going on. The bass drum was delivering plenty of low end, & the reso was medium tight. Listen through good phones, & you should pick that up, but not the same as being in the room.

This is why I Never leave my home without a drum key.

Dennis
Even better - two! :)

I would say that a good standard protocol for store display tuning would be medium tuning tension.
That way the drum would be producing a full round tone.
They could simply use a tune bot or a drum dial to set the drums close enough so that a good demonstration could be had by a shopper.

I was selling a kit a few years ago. I tuned the drums medium tension with both heads on the toms matching in pitch to give a full sound. I figured that when someone came to see the kit they would get a good idea of how the kit sounded with it tuned in that manor.
A buyer came and he sat behind the drums. I explained to him that the drums were tuned in the middle of their range so he could go up or down with the tuning as he liked. He hit the toms for a while and he took a key from his pocket. He then detuned one lug of the batter head on each of the toms until they sounded like crap.
I asked him why he did that. He said that he likes to tune his drums that way because he likes that sound. He bought the kit so all was good but I never understood his logic.
Your default tuning suggestion for a shop is spot on Bob. If only they'd do that. clearly, there's a world of difference between how a kit is likely to be tuned in, say, a Guitar Centre environment, compared to the likes of Steve Maxwells.
My rant is aimed more towards the "professionals" representing manufacturers in an exhibition setting.

I really don't get what your kit buyer did either, but at least he had the opportunity to hear the drums working nicely. Of course, his tuning choice is exactly that, his choice.

I was just kidding about the tuning of your kit and liking wrinkled heads. Again proving that I should not attempt sarcasm here. They sound incredible, as always. Going to stop talking now haha.
All's cool, I did get that ;) ;) ;) Please carry on with the sarcasm!
 
Firstly I think that "good enough" and the lowest common denominator ,have become the new standard on which product is made and sold.

To you my mate, this is even more upsetting,because you go the extra mile,or two,or whatever it takes, as is evident in all aspects of your personal life I think,as well as in the absolutely wonderful drums you make.

Good enough has never been a standard,and not even in your vocabulary,so seeing the lowest common denominator principle in action(or actually in non-action) is upsetting.

I've always been the same way too.My work ethic is just completey different than a lot of people I know.I guess I owe it to a German immigrant Grandfather who taught me to do any job with the A to Z approach.

Do it right,do it all and it's not done till you finish ALL the steps the right way.

Secondly.....that kit ..........that bass drum.The tone and depth are just amazing.In a blindfold test,I would bet the ranch on those being much larger drums,let alone the 12" depth of the bass drum.

Well done,kudos again mate.:)

Steve B
 
Good enough has never been a standard,and not even in your vocabulary,so seeing the lowest common denominator principle in action(or actually in non-action) is upsetting.
Yes, that's me all over, but I have to be careful. Letting stuff get under your skin can pull you away from looking at the bigger picture. I've got all day for players who struggle with tuning. hell, I struggle myself sometimes (especially in small dead rooms = yuk!). It's the "professionals" who should damn well know better, but just can't be bothered, that irk me something terrible. I just want to slap them, in the same way I want to slap the occasional drummer who acts out the drummer stereotype.


Secondly.....that kit ..........that bass drum.The tone and depth are just amazing.In a blindfold test,I would bet the ranch on those being much larger drums,let alone the 12" depth of the bass drum.

Well done,kudos again mate.:)

Steve B
Thanks Steve, & yes, that little baby punches well above it's weight. I had one very well know industry pro tech approach me. In passing, he said "I should bring every drummer here who tells me the shells don't make a difference". I was pretty pleased with that unsolicited remark.
 
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